C-17 Globemaster III (IAF)

nrj

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What else do you expect from these two-faced Americans...

They sell us arms at the same time that they give free "military aid" to Pakistan, and when we fight each other in the future, they will just sit back and laugh while we both use American arms to kill each other.

The ultimate winner in this scenario is neither India nor Pakistan, but U.S. arms suppliers and the U.S. Military-Industrial Complex.
India is not really on a heavy bargaining side in these Defense deals with US. When we don't have any product like Heavy air-lifters of our own, we ought to buy it from the expert of field. US is interested in its business. India doesn't offer anything substantial to US so that US will stop its business to other countries in field of these Def products. Who they sell it is their own affair. If we want C-17, buy it or make-it-yourself (??)
 

civfanatic

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India is not really on a heavy bargaining side in these Defense deals with US. When we don't have any product like Heavy air-lifters of our own, we ought to buy it from the expert of field. US is interested in its business. India doesn't offer anything substantial to US so that US will stop its business to other countries in field of these Def products. Who they sell it is their own affair. If we want C-17, buy it or make-it-yourself (??)
I agree that we should buy C-17s, because there appears to be no better alternative at present. However, our long-term goal should be the development of indigenous arms so we do not have to rely on US, Russia, France, or anyone else for our defence needs.

On an another note, does anyone know how the Ilyushin-HAL MRTA will compare to the C-17??
 

Agantrope

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I agree that we should buy C-17s, because there appears to be no better alternative at present. However, our long-term goal should be the development of indigenous arms so we do not have to rely on US, Russia, France, or anyone else for our defence needs.

On an another note, does anyone know how the Ilyushin-HAL MRTA will compare to the C-17??
Even the name implies it as the MRTA -> Medium Regional Transport Aircraft. It is of capacity 15-20T. C-17 is of 70T, so no option for the heavy lifting. We cant wait for the An-124 to come with a good lifting and landing gears in dirty, mud path
 

pmaitra

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Russia does not sell any arms to Pakistan. And at any rate none of the other nations you mentioned give free, high-tech weapons to Pakistan like the U.S. does.
I am pretty sure Pakistan has plenty of defense hardware from the former Warsaw Pact countries, starting from Kalashnikovs to Mil-17 helicopters to Ilyushin-78 aeroplanes, many of them procured directly (some of them sold by Russia).

Regarding giving Pakistan 'free' weapons, IMHO the US is paying blood money (sometimes in cash, sometimes in kind) to Pakistan for it to wage war against it's own people (many of whom are terrorists, no doubt).

Some exerpts from a news article:

...
In 2004 Russia's top battle tank plant signed a production deal with Pakistan, a day after the country's Foreign Minister Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri held talks with his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov.
...
As a result of the 2007 meeting, Russia allowed China to export 500 WD-93 engines for the JF-17 Thunder jets. This enabled Pakistan to construct a squadron of the JF-17 Thunders. The new meeting may allow export of Russian technology for Pakistan's latest venture, salellites and the J-10B. Pakistan needs more powerful engines for its next generation of jets and Russia will be providing them to Pakistan. Additionally Russia may assist Paksitan in upgrading the Steel Mill and in improving railway system. Pakistan wants to hook up Gwader to Central Asia with a state of the art rail system.
...
Russia has been providing Choppers to Pakistan which have been flown secretly into Pakistan on the AN-124 aircraft.
...

Full article: A Russian Pakistan military alliance? The Dawn
 
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Agantrope

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Russia does not sell any arms to Pakistan. And at any rate none of the other nations you mentioned give free, high-tech weapons to Pakistan like the U.S. does.
Though russia havent sold their technologies to pak directly, still pak had got its hand on to it.

For example T-80 Tanks, then the Mil Mi-17 and still more hardware, not through a direct channel but through the Warsaw pact countries
 
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SHASH2K2

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And don't forget about RD-93

RD-93 will have no impact at all on Indian defence preparedness vis s vis Pakistan. A sukhoi 30 can take on JF 17 on any day even is Pilot is half asleep .
 

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India close to acquiring 10 Boeing C-17 Globemaster III aircrafts; 30K new jobs in United States | India Defence

2010-10-08 India is close to acquiring ten Boeing C-17 Globemaster III military transport aircrafts in a USD 4.4 billion deal. This deal has the potential to create as many as 30,000 jobs in America said Robert Blake, Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asia.



"India and the US are working toward finalizing an agreement for Indian Air Force to acquire ten C-17 Globemaster aircraft. This USD 4.4 billion deal could potentially create up to 30,000 jobs in the US ... This deal could potentially create up to 30,000 jobs in the US and would be particularly important for Southern California: the assembly line for these colossal aircraft is located in Long Beach, just a mere 80 miles up the freeway" Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asia, Robert Blake said at the 27th Annual Mahatma Gandhi Memorial Lecture at San Diego State University in California.

The Boeing (formerly McDonnell Douglas) C-17 Globemaster III is a large military transport aircraft. Developed for the United States Air Force from the 1980s to the early 1990s by McDonnell Douglas, the C-17 is used for rapid strategic airlift of troops and cargo to main operating bases or forward operating bases throughout the world; it can also perform tactical airlift, medical evacuation and airdrop missions.

Citing growing U.S.-India business relations, he said:
"For instance, a company called 'M Ship, based mere blocks away from the San Diego harbor, is a small, but very innovative naval architecture and technology firm that recently conceived of and developed the M80 Stiletto, an experimental Navy craft with a patented M-shaped hull ... M Ship has reached out to begin 'preliminary work' with a Hyderabad-based company to find new building materials. M Ship's CEO Bill Burns notes could enable further US-India collaboration in M Ship's building and design endeavors"
 

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Boeing Confirms India in Talks for Purchasing Ten C-17 Globemaster III Aircraft

2010-10-10 The Boeing C-17 Globemaster III is designed to fulfill military and humanitarian airlift needs well into the 21st century. A high-wing, four-engine, T-tailed aircraft with a rear-loading ramp, the C-17 can carry large combat equipment and troops or humanitarian aid across international distances directly to small austere airfields anywhere in the world.

With a payload of 164,900 pounds, the C-17 can take off from a 7,000-foot airfield, fly 2,400 nautical miles, and land on a small, austere airfield in 3,000 feet or less. The C-17 is equipped with an externally blown flap system that allows a steep, low-speed final approach and low-landing speeds for routine short-field landings. Worldwide, Boeing has delivered 220 C-17s. Boeing's program of record with the U.S. Air Force is to design, build and deliver 223 C-17s through September, 2012. Boeing has delivered 201 C-17s to the USAF as of August, 20, 2010.



There are 19 C-17s in service with five international customers. The RAF has acquired six and will receive a seventh in December, 2010; the Royal Australian Air Force and Canadian Defence Forces have each received four C-17s. The 12-nation Strategic Airlift Capability consortium -- members of NATO and Partnership for Peace -- received its three C-17s in 2009. Qatar, the first Middle East customer to order C-17s, received two C-17s in 2009 and holds options for two more. In January, 2010, Boeing and the United Arab Emirates announced that the UAE had agreed to acquire six C-17s in 2011 and 2012. In May, 2010, Kuwait submitted a letter of request to the U.S. government regarding the acquisition of one C-17. India is currently negotiating with the U.S. government for the potential acquisition of ten C-17s.

A cockpit crew of two and one loadmaster operates the C-17, which can be refueled in flight. This cost-effective flight crew complement is made possible through the use of an advanced digital avionics system and advanced cargo systems. In the cargo compartment the C-17 can carry Army wheeled vehicles in two side-by-side rows. Three combat ready Stryker infantry-fighting vehicles comprise one deployment load. Similarly, the Army's newest main battle tank, the M-1, can be carried.

The four engines are Pratt & Whitney PW2040 series turbofans, designated as F117-PW-100 by the Air Force, each producing 40,440 pounds of thrust. The engines are equipped with directed-flow thrust reverser's capable of deployment in flight. On the ground, a fully loaded aircraft, using engine reverser's, can back up a two-percent slope.




Boeing Confirms India in Talks for Purchasing Ten C-17 Globemaster III Aircraft | India Defence
 

Patriot

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Indian C-17 Deal Seen As Near

LONDON — India may conclude its purchase agreement for Boeing C-17s early next month.

The contract is likely to be finalized during President Barack Obama's visit to India, due to begin on Nov. 4, industry executives say. India is in talks with the U.S. government to purchase 10 airlifters at a cost of up to $5.8 billion, which includes training, ground equipment and other items.

The Obama visit will be accompanied by a series of meetings on defense industrial issues. Boeing and Lockheed Martin also are involved in the 126-aircraft Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition and other deals. Boeing, for example, hopes to sell AH-64D Apaches.

Meanwhile, calls for greater U.S.-Indian cooperation are increasing in both countries.

A report by the Center for a New American Security, a Washington-based think tank, makes the case for the U.S. and India to expand their ties.

"This will require policy changes by both the United States and India," the report states. "Many of these changes will be difficult, and some differences may endure. But the potential gain is worth the effort. Now is a critical time in this partnership, a moment to transform past bilateral accomplishments into regional and global successes."



http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=aerospacedaily&id=news/asd/2010/10/25/09.xml&headline=Indian%20C-17%20Deal%20Seen%20As%20Near
 

Parthy

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A question - Why did we go for the C-17s instead of An-124s?

Some stats for each bird -

C-17 Globemaster III:
Payload: 77,519 kg
Troop carrying capacity: 102 with standard steats (134 with palletised seats)
Range: 4,482 km
Unit Cost: $191 million

An-124 Ruslan:
Payload: 150,000 kg
Troop carrying capacity: 88 (+350 with palletised seats)
Range: 5,400 km
Unit Cost: $70-100 million


Can someone explain to me why the C-17 is superior??
I think AN124 production line is more over closed. If we are placing order, it takes huge sum of money to kick-start the production line...
 

gogbot

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A question - Why did we go for the C-17s instead of An-124s?

Some stats for each bird -

C-17 Globemaster III:
Payload: 77,519 kg
Troop carrying capacity: 102 with standard steats (134 with palletised seats)
Range: 4,482 km
Unit Cost: $191 million

An-124 Ruslan:
Payload: 150,000 kg
Troop carrying capacity: 88 (+350 with palletised seats)
Range: 5,400 km
Unit Cost: $70-100 million


Can someone explain to me why the C-17 is superior??
Landing and takeoff

C-17 can do it in shorter and quicker.
C-17 can land in more air strips as result.
C-17 can land on Rougher Air Strips.

There might also be a fuel efficiency consideration.

C-17 does give the IAF more operational Capabilities than the AN-124.
Which is what we really want in the end. Price is big bummer but that's just how it is i suppose.
 

Armand2REP

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I think AN124 production line is more over closed. If we are placing order, it takes huge sum of money to kick-start the production line...
Russia hasn't even started funding the new production line yet. They were begging the Germans to help them fund it, but they are already committed to A400M.
 

smartindian

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Russia hasn't even started funding the new production line yet. They were begging the Germans to help them fund it, but they are already committed to A400M.
can you please provide me any link for the above statement. or except that you come and write some nonsense
 

Parthy

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Is it wise to go with C17 after seeing what happened with C130J?? :emot154:
 

plugwater

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India may have to pay more for C-17 airlifters: Boeing

The 10 Boeing C-17 heavy airlifters the Indian Air Force (IAF) wants to buy could cost much more than the $4.1 billion initially tagged, Boeing says, a sure sign that hard bargaining is on the cards.

'The figure of $4.1 million is not supportable,' Chris Chadwick, president of Boeing Military Aircraft, told reporters here Tuesday, pointing out that the US Congress had accorded approval for a deal worth $5.8 billion.

When Congressional approval was sought for the deal under the foreign military sales (FMS) route it was for a fully-loaded aircraft, Chadwick explained. Theoretically, the cost could be lower but so would be its capabilities.

'There has to be a government-to-government discussion. They have to decide what they want from the capability perspective,' Chadwick added.

The C-17 purchase was among the big ticket deals valued at $10-15 billion that US President Barack Obama announced Saturday on the first day of his four-day visit to India that concluded early Tuesday.

According to Chadwick, the IAF order would create 20,000 jobs across 44 US states.

The IAF had zeroed in on the C-17 after a thorough study because of its capability to take off and land on short runways with heavy loads, long range and ease of operation. Price negotiations are now underway, and Chadwick said the IAF's letter of acceptance (LOA) was expected soon with the final deal to be clinched sometime in 2011.

'The figure of $4.1 billion is a random figure taken off the net,' Chadwick said.

When it was pointed out that the figure had been posted on the White House website, he retorted: 'Then you must ask the White House. You should talk to the US government.'

The IAF needs the C-17 as a replacement for its fleet of some 20 Soviet-era Il-76 transports that were acquired in the 1980s and for which spares are now difficult to obtain.

An IL-76 can carry a cargo of around 45 tonnes and has a crew of six while a C-17 can carry 70 tonnes, and is much easier to operate with a small crew of two pilots and one loadmaster (total three), thanks to its various power-assisted systems. Two observers can also be seated.

Despite its massive size – 174 ft length, 55 ft height and about 170 ft wingspan – a pilot can fly the C-17 with a simple joystick, much like a fighter aircraft, which can be lifesaving in a battle zone as the aircraft can take off quickly and at steep angles. It is powered by four Pratt & Whitney F-117-PW-100 turbofan engines.

The C-17 is the mainstay of the US forces for worldwide deployment, and can be refuelled midair. It is the lifeline of US and NATO troops deployed in Afghanistan and before that in Iraq.

According to Boeing, the high-wing, 4-engine, multi-service T-tailed military-transport C-17 can carry large equipment including tanks, supplies and troops directly to small airfields in harsh terrain anywhere in the world, day or night.

The sturdy, long-haul aircraft tackles distance, destination and heavy, oversized payloads in unpredictable conditions. It has delivered cargo in every worldwide operation since the 1990s.

It can take off from a 7,600-ft airfield, fly 2,400 nautical miles, refuel while in flight for longer range, and land in 3,000 ft or less on a small unpaved or paved airfield day or night.

The aircraft can also be used as an aerial ambulance.

http://idrw.org/?p=1253
 

Sridhar

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Price tussle over C-17 aircraft deal with US
BY ADMIN AT 10 NOVEMBER, 2010, 2:41 AM

BY: The Indian Express Limited

One of the key announcements by the White House during President Barack Obama's visit was a "preliminary agreement" on the purchase of 10 heavy transport aircraft with the Indian Air Force — the biggest ever defence deal between the two countries, valued as it was by Washington at $ 4.1 billion.

However, a tussle has now broken out over the price of the deal with the IAF unhappy over the "unrealistic" estimate for 10 C 17 Globemaster III aircraft. The aircraft manufacturer Boeing too seems to be in the dark over the expected price of the deal, with a top executive holding that the $ 4.1 billion tag excludes certain costs like engines and spares.

While a hectic round of cost negotiations are expected to start in the coming months, two different sets of prices quoted by the US have already complicated matters. The White House statement pegged the value of the contract at $ 4.1 billion, but months ago, the value of the deal was pegged at $ 5.8 billion in a notification before the US Congress.

Both these figures make the C 17 the most expensive military aircraft in mass production, surpassing even the top line F 22 Raptor fighter. The IAF, on the other hand, was looking at a much lower estimate. Sources said that the IAF did not expect the aircraft to cost much over $ 3 billion.

While the IAF may need to re-draw its expenditure budget, a top Boeing executive hinted that the price of the deal would be much over $ 4.1 billion. Chris Chadwick, president of Boeing Military Aircraft said on Tuesday that the $ 4.1 billion price would not include things like engines, support and spares. However, he clarified that the deal was still under discussion between the two governments and it would be too early to comment on the final price.

http://idrw.org/?p=1256
 

Armand2REP

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can you please provide me any link for the above statement. or except that you come and write some nonsense
During his recent trip to Russia, German President Wulff met with the Ulyanovsk Region's government and said that Russian and German companies might cooperate to build Antonov's massive An-124 cargo plane. This joint venture has been kicked about by the German and Russian governments since Boris Yeltsin's day...Even so, Germans say they still find it hard to work in Russia, putting the miles of red tape as their chief moan. "The insufficient legal security and bureaucratic pitfalls scare off German companies sometimes and prevent them from doing more active business in Russia," Wulff said.

http://www.businessneweurope.eu/story2371
 

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