BrahMos - Submarine launched version

[pmaitra]

I looked for videos of this launch. Sadly, there isn't one. I suppose this was done in a very clandestine manner. I wonder why. I am sure someone must have taken some video somewhere. In any event, whatever pictures we have, are good.

 

[arnabmit]

@nrj the third paragraph, does this mean IN has changed it's stance? Now they do want BrahMos in vertical config?

 

[trackwhack]

@nrj

the primary purpose of a hunter killer is to take out surface fleet.. torpedo ranges are limited. hence VLS and sea skimming missiles. i did not say the navy wants these in diesel electric. i said we should be loading up these on our future SSN's - big difference. super/hypersonic anti ship missiles are a must for a next gen SSN.

as for AAW for sub killers - it will be just one of many objectives for different subs. but for an SSN it will never be a primary objective. the primary objective is to take out surface fleet.

 

[nrj]

@nrj the third paragraph, does this mean IN has changed it's stance? Now they do want BrahMos in vertical config?

No. Apparently we have been reading same text that from 3rd para about Brahmos proposal from last 1-1/5 year.

Pillai can not decide what purpose torpedo tubes must serve on submarine. It is Navy's call.

 

[nrj]

@nrj

the primary purpose of a hunter killer is to take out surface fleet.. torpedo ranges are limited. hence VLS and sea skimming missiles. i did not say the navy wants these in diesel electric. i said we should be loading up these on our future SSN's - big difference. super/hypersonic anti ship missiles are a must for a next gen SSN.

as for AAW for sub killers - it will be just one of many objectives for different subs. but for an SSN it will never be a primary objective. the primary objective is to take out surface fleet.

AFAIK this variant is pitched for new line of submarines to be inducted apart from Arihant class. Sure this missile can find its way on Arihants but I doubt there is space for SLCM. And speaking strictly out of my information, the first several units in Arihant class will be used for pure second-strike purpose to be assured by ballistic missiles. Cruise missile, that too of this limited range is difficult to find on s-2 to s-4. Plus the ATV program is under SFC with Navy's collaboration and there is no information on how much alignment they have with brahmos corp.

 

[Bheeshma]

They should be able to fit this in Arihant. Navy should get their head out of their butt and simply buy or ask for new missile (with smaller dia etc) that can be fired from the tube.

 

[sayareakd]

They should be able to fit this in Arihant. Navy should get their head out of their butt and simply buy or ask for new missile (with smaller dia etc) that can be fired from the tube.

well you never know what submerged platform turn out to be, it is not pontoon that is for sure...............

(submerged platform like K15 test didnt had ships to retrieve it)

 

[kurup]

K15 underwater booster, made by Kerala Hitech industries.

Now this company has been taken over by Brahmos corporation.

As i said earlier that K-15 underwater booster which was perfected was used in Brahmos underwater launch.

What is a underwater booster ??? What is it's use ???

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: India Test Fires Underwater Version of Brahmos Missile

being the carrier killer that it probably is and given that there are other carrier-killers around even if not hypersonic , one would have expected that the AC is by now part of an out-moded system of planning naval operations - in a real all-out war scenario

let me be more specific - the AC is only for operations close to home where a heck of a lot of protection can be given and represents an extension of the land base. Alternatively, it can be used for threatening , bullying , showing strength to a less developed naval force which lacks the missiles ( eg brahmos amongst others ) or before an all-out war has developed

it is a supply-mechanism which in today's warfare, would be an easy target and largely defenceless - given the hypersonic missiles that are being developed especially those which can be submarine-launched.

unless the sending nation has a tremendous strength advantage over the targeted nation(s) , the AC is a pretty useless or rather out-moded piece of equipment - in a real all-out war scenario

now that should be a provocative-enough statement ?

Exactly the opposite.

Aircraft careers have destroyers , frigates and subs in carrier battle groups. these escort ships have potent anti missile defences.getting through them just with a few missiles is not so easy. they enforce sea denial and economic strangulation of the target entity one of the most important objectives of any modern war.

Say some one wants to target an AC with a 300 km range brahmos cruise missile. the crux of the problem is how to get close enough to launch the missile on an AC in high seas.because the carrier battle groups dominate vast swathe of high seas. And the fighter of the AC dominate the airspace above the carrier battle group.

So it is very difficult either to get a fighter or a naval asset close enough to launch a 300 km supersonic cruise missile on an AC, even if it is done there are defences spread 100s of kilometers around the AC to take care. The Brahmos has only terminal super agility capacity. but it will have to face counter measures through out the 300 km flight to the AC. Not a simple task.

 

[WMD]

Re: India Test Fires Underwater Version of Brahmos Missile

Exactly the opposite.

Aircraft careers have destroyers , frigates and subs in carrier battle groups. these escort ships have potent anti missile defences.getting through them just with a few missiles is not so easy. they enforce sea denial and economic strangulation of the target entity one of the most important objectives of any modern war.

Say some one wants to target an AC with a 300 km range brahmos cruise missile. the crux of the problem is how to get close enough to launch the missile on an AC in high seas.because the carrier battle groups dominate vast swathe of high seas. And the fighter of the AC dominate the airspace above the carrier battle group.

So it is very difficult either to get a fighter or a naval asset close enough to launch a 300 km supersonic cruise missile on an AC, even if it is done there are defences spread 100s of kilometers around the AC to take care. The Brahmos has only terminal super agility capacity. but it will have to face counter measures through out the 300 km flight to the AC. Not a simple task.

the range of BrahMos should come around to 500-600km when launched from a fighter, so BrahMos can b launched from a platform which is out of the CBGs tracking range.
and even if its launched within 300km from the CBG, its a sea-skimming missile so it won't b detected until only when it appears over the horizon,

Sea skimming anti-ship missiles try to fly as low as is practically achievable, which is almost always below 50 meters (150 ft), and is often down towards 5 meters (15 ft). When under attack, a warship can detect sea-skimming missiles only once they appear over the horizon (about 28 to 46 km from the ship), allowing about 25 to 60 seconds of warning.
Sea skimming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

most anti-ship missiles hav ranges lesser than BrahMos,
and the launch platform is also protected from incoming missiles.

 

[Mariner HK]

BrahMos signifies lack of planning in Defence

BrahMos signifies lack of planning in Defence
Published March 23, 2013 | By admin

SOURCE: NEW INDIAN EXPRESS


The successful launch of a BrahMos missile from an underwater platform off the Visakhapatnam coast in the Bay of Bengal on March 20 is a feather in the cap of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO). That it is the first time anywhere in the world that an underwater platform has been used to launch a missile makes the achievement all the more creditable. The underwater platform and the vertical lift-off give the missile 360-degree coverage and the ability to evade the radar. The missile hit the target — a decommissioned ship — at a distance of 290 km from the launch area. It could only be described as a textbook launch.

Defence Minister A.K. Antony has congratulated all those who made the project a success. It is certainly a moment of pride for the whole country. However, amidst all the celebrations the launch warrants, there is one aspect that should not be overlooked. The underwater platform used for the test has its own limitations. It cannot be moved as and when it is needed in a war-like situation. The ideal platform for the missile is a submarine but, unfortunately, none of the vessels in India's possession has the capability to launch such a weapon. Nor can they be adapted to meet the requirements of a vertical lift-off.

Of course, India has plans to build what is called the Project-75 India submarines, which will have the capability to launch BrahMos. At present, the new generation submarines are just a pipe dream. With even the initial global tender or the request for proposal (RPF) for the submarines yet to be floated, the earliest India can have a submarine capable of launching the missile is 2023. With fast-changing developments in technology and warfare, there is no certainty that what is developed today will not be obsolete 10 years later. If anything, this shows the utter lack of long-term strategic planning in the defence establishment, where one hand does not know what the other does.

 

[arya]

BrahMos signifies lack of planning in Defence
Published March 23, 2013 | By admin

SOURCE: NEW INDIAN EXPRESS


The successful launch of a BrahMos missile from an underwater platform off the Visakhapatnam coast in the Bay of Bengal on March 20 is a feather in the cap of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO). That it is the first time anywhere in the world that an underwater platform has been used to launch a missile makes the achievement all the more creditable. The underwater platform and the vertical lift-off give the missile 360-degree coverage and the ability to evade the radar. The missile hit the target — a decommissioned ship — at a distance of 290 km from the launch area. It could only be described as a textbook launch.

Defence Minister A.K. Antony has congratulated all those who made the project a success. It is certainly a moment of pride for the whole country. However, amidst all the celebrations the launch warrants, there is one aspect that should not be overlooked. The underwater platform used for the test has its own limitations. It cannot be moved as and when it is needed in a war-like situation. The ideal platform for the missile is a submarine but, unfortunately, none of the vessels in India's possession has the capability to launch such a weapon. Nor can they be adapted to meet the requirements of a vertical lift-off.

Of course, India has plans to build what is called the Project-75 India submarines, which will have the capability to launch BrahMos. At present, the new generation submarines are just a pipe dream. With even the initial global tender or the request for proposal (RPF) for the submarines yet to be floated, the earliest India can have a submarine capable of launching the missile is 2023. With fast-changing developments in technology and warfare, there is no certainty that what is developed today will not be obsolete 10 years later. If anything, this shows the utter lack of long-term strategic planning in the defence establishment, where one hand does not know what the other does.

this is starting not the end but yes with time we have to update yourself.

Well thanks to international rule we cant export missile from other countery that's why we are self devloped in that area .

Its just starting .

 

[sayareakd]

Three of these with extended range launched at CBG from different direct programme to impact at the same time. Will creat problem for any one.

 

[nrj]

Re: BrahMos signifies lack of planning in Defence

The ideal platform for the missile is a submarine but, unfortunately, none of the vessels in India's possession has the capability to launch such a weapon. Nor can they be adapted to meet the requirements of a vertical lift-off.

Why should Navy have platform to serve marketing exhibition of Brahmos Corp ??

Pillai can run to Russian navy for the same. Oh wait, no one is entertaining !

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India has plans to build what is called the Project-75 India submarines, which will have the capability to launch BrahMos.

Wrong.

--

With even the initial global tender or the request for proposal (RPF) for the submarines yet to be floated, the earliest India can have a submarine capable of launching the missile is 2023.

RFP is yet to be floated because Naval doctrine is not built from available armaments. Armaments and vehicles are developed according to navel strategy that is to be adopted. It is other way round, which these so-called defence journalist can never understand. Just because manufacturer has developed missile does not mean navy should be rushing to induct it or procure compatible platforms. Security apparatus deployment is not your weekend shopping season.

And what nonsense 2023? These people have no idea how much SLBM K - series has progressed. Nobody will even know if SLBMs are right now under fitting in ATVs.

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: BrahMos signifies lack of planning in Defence

BrahMos signifies lack of planning in Defence
Published March 23, 2013 | By admin

SOURCE: NEW INDIAN EXPRESS


The successful launch of a BrahMos missile from an underwater platform off the Visakhapatnam coast in the Bay of Bengal on March 20 is a feather in the cap of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO). That it is the first time anywhere in the world that an underwater platform has been used to launch a missile makes the achievement all the more creditable. The underwater platform and the vertical lift-off give the missile 360-degree coverage and the ability to evade the radar. The missile hit the target — a decommissioned ship — at a distance of 290 km from the launch area. It could only be described as a textbook launch.



Defence Minister A.K. Antony has congratulated all those who made the project a success. It is certainly a moment of pride for the whole country. However, amidst all the celebrations the launch warrants, there is one aspect that should not be overlooked. The underwater platform used for the test has its own limitations. It cannot be moved as and when it is needed in a war-like situation. The ideal platform for the missile is a submarine but, unfortunately, none of the vessels in India's possession has the capability to launch such a weapon. Nor can they be adapted to meet the requirements of a vertical lift-off.

Of course, India has plans to build what is called the Project-75 India submarines, which will have the capability to launch BrahMos. At present, the new generation submarines are just a pipe dream. With even the initial global tender or the request for proposal (RPF) for the submarines yet to be floated, the earliest India can have a submarine capable of launching the missile is 2023. With fast-changing developments in technology and warfare, there is no certainty that what is developed today will not be obsolete 10 years later. If anything, this shows the utter lack of long-term strategic planning in the defence establishment, where one hand does not know what the other does.

Another bud headed article from the stables of Indian express. this what happens when a few know nothing types start to pretend they are experts over the head of the scientific establishment.

The article says utter lack of long term planning!!!!!

How was the Navy supposed to know ten years before that a under water vertical launch Brahmos becomes available for it's submarines? the submarine plan of the navy's present submarine fleet was laid well before any possibility of a Sub surface launch version of Brahmos were available to it.


And how can DRDO ask navy to make room for it's brahmos vertical launch versions in the submarine plans of the navy 20 years before the word BRAHMOS was ever pronounced?the only possibility is the tech entering the future subs of indian Navy.So it is a no brainer to say that the brahmos vertical launch platform won't fit in the present submarines whose designs were finalized decades before.

The journo thinks it is as simple as deciding whether to pour tomato sauce or chili sauce on the samosa.
Perfecting the under water tech will take a few more years. And only future submarines of navy can carry this weapon. And even any feasibility study of trying to fit it in existing subs(if possible ) with some alterations ,may not have started.

Some one has to drill it into his wooden head that no fast changing technology will make the under water cruise missile launch tech of missiles like brahmos obsolete.If he thinks that in futuer a longer range version of Brahmos will be available , the future dimensions and the capabilities of the launch tube must be factored in by today's design phase itself. that's all.

He does not have to take a magnifying glass and found out an undiscovered truth like the following quote.

However, amidst all the celebrations the launch warrants, there is one aspect that should not be overlooked. The underwater platform used for the test has its own limitations. It cannot be moved as and when it is needed in a war-like situation. The ideal platform for the missile is a submarine but, unfortunately, none of the vessels in India's possession has the capability to launch such a weapon. Nor can they be adapted to meet the requirements of a vertical lift-off.

And you can pretty much describe any defence project in planning as a mere pipe dream and get away with it.because when it matures decades later no one is going to care about jackass articles like this.By his standard even the MMRCA of IAF may turn out to be a pipe dream like the agusta-west land deal. You never know when an expose will burst open to sink the RAFALE deal!!! May happen any time soon!!!!!

Of course, India has plans to build what is called the Project-75 India submarines, which will have the capability to launch BrahMos. At present, the new generation submarines are just a pipe dream.

I have a feeling that lot of so called Indian express defence reporters are actually full time bollywood reporters moonlighting as defence journos on the sly.

And the reporter makes it look like as if the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing!!!

 

[Bhadra]

Re: BrahMos signifies lack of planning in Defence

Why should Navy have platform to serve marketing exhibition of Brahmos Corp ??

Pillai can run to Russian navy for the same. Oh wait, no one is entertaining !

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Wrong.

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RFP is yet to be floated because Naval doctrine is not built from available armaments. Armaments and vehicles are developed according to navel strategy that is to be adopted. It is other way round, which these so-called defence journalist can never understand. Just because manufacturer has developed missile does not mean navy should be rushing to induct it or procure compatible platforms. Security apparatus deployment is not your weekend shopping season.

And what nonsense 2023? These people have no idea how much SLBM K - series has progressed. Nobody will even know if SLBMs are right now under fitting in ATVs.

What you are saying is that it is all right for DRDO to develop systems and plateforms not to serve a doctrine / Service and not for induction but for claiming a few Padma awards ? And / or ask a few more thousand crores of tax payers money ..?

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: BrahMos signifies lack of planning in Defence

What you are saying is that it is all right for DRDO to develop systems and plateforms not to serve a doctrine / Service and not for induction but for claiming a few Padma awards ? And / or ask a few more thousand crores of tax payers money ..?

Don't get excited by a part time bollywood reporter's critique on defense matters. Indian express has an army of them on the prowl.
The present subs of Navy would have been designed two decades before when no Brahmos under sea vertical launch possibility existed. SO it can be inducted only in Navy's future subs.

The same with all defence techs. It is like asking for Sukhoi size radar on Mig-29.And questioning the wisdom of MIG-29 designers by asking why they did not provide a big enough radome dia to fit the future Sukhoi sized radar.

 

[Bhadra]

Re: BrahMos signifies lack of planning in Defence

Don't get excited by a part time bollywood reporter's critique on defense matters. Indian express has an army of them on the prowl.
The present subs of Navy would have been designed two decades before when no Brahmos under sea vertical launch possibility existed. SO it can be inducted only in Navy's future subs.

The same with all defence techs. It is like asking for Sukhoi size radar on Mig-29.And questioning the wisdom of MIG-29 designers by asking why they did not provide a big enough radome dia to fit the future Sukhoi sized radar.

Please do not negate yourself....

You or the reporter rightly said that underwater Brahmos launch neither has a plateform to launch or a doctrine to support it...

Then why did DRDO make it ?

Where is the NSQR for it ?

The DRDO made it and poofed off thousands of crores to impress Mr Antony and get a news report ?

That is what the reporter says and that is the job of a reporter as he is not a DREDO...

 

[Bheeshma]

LoL good one. The Idiots wanting tube launched Brahmos must first get their heads out of their butts. With Klub filling that role I see no need to put Brahmos into tubes. Design the new sub with iit in mind and put a few on Arihants to turn it into our own Oscars.

 

[arnabmit]

Re: BrahMos signifies lack of planning in Defence

Err... DRDO doesn't make Brahmos.

Please do not negate yourself....

You or the reporter rightly said that underwater Brahmos launch neither has a plateform to launch or a doctrine to support it...

Then why did DRDO make it ?

Where is the NSQR for it ?

The DRDO made it and poofed off thousands of crores to impress Mr Antony and get a news report ?

That is what the reporter says and that is the job of a reporter as he is not a DREDO...