Attacks on Tamil Nadu fishermen by Sri Lankan navy

[Holy Triad]

Local politicians may crooks but not some idiots who are waiting for fishing advise from random internet posters.


They too want this problem go away bcuz its a pain in the butt for them too.

Media criticize them for lack of inaction.


Local politicians love to launch welfare schemes if it attract certain community votes.

Since fishermen are tight knit communities any Fishing schemes would make them into a voting bloc.

Which politician wouldn't want?


This it self proves the problem is much more complicated.

 

[ezsasa]

Its an international maritime border issue saar,who else can act on this?


Ppl causally dropping the blame on local politician, when we counter the issue, people simply say "govt must take or it " is a typical solution.

If the same yard stick applied then your" local politics" blame to lose credibility don't you think?


And also doesn't the state gormint should fund "the fish farming tech" too a laughable one don't you think?

Me:Central gormint solve the issue..

Others: no its a typical thinking

The same others: but state gormint finance the fish farm.





My argument still stands.

"Govt should take care of it" is a generic statement with no specifics. "Govt should take care of it" applies to almost every topic we discuss at DFI, so that's a given.

In this topic, Govt of India is only one of the stake holders.
from Indian side alone from my point of view :
fishermen,
fisherman unions,
Fishermen co-operative societies,
fishing village elders,
state government,
local politicians, and within local politicians in this case there are politicians who have "anti-SL" main agenda of their politics and the influence they have in this issue,
and within GoI there is PMO, EAM, MoD, MHA
etc etc. and there will be parallel stake holders on SL side as well.
and building consensus in all this groups.

we are not finding a solution the problem, we are trying to learn about the issue using a "what if" hypothesis. and hopefully who are not aware learn a bit more about the nuances while reading the conversation.

coming to my mention of "local politics", a simple response "what local politics are you referring to?" would have prompted a response from me. you may agree or you correct me. either would be fine with me.

even for LoC my answer will be on similar lines, since i don't have an answer beyond "Govt should take care of it" i rarely make an attempt to give solutions on LoC or LAC issue.

core of your argument seems to be, people are taking this issue simplistically. if you feel strongly about it, just let them know like you are engaging with me. just that do it in such a way that, it take the understanding forward, which you are doing anyways.

let me know, if you need more clarifications.

 

[ezsasa]

"Govt should take care of it" is a generic statement with no specifics. "Govt should take care of it" applies to almost every topic we discuss at DFI, so that's a given.

In this topic, Govt of India is only one of the stake holders.
from Indian side alone from my point of view :
fishermen,
fisherman unions,
Fishermen co-operative societies,
fishing village elders,
state government,
local politicians, and within local politicians in this case there are politicians who have "anti-SL" main agenda of their politics and the influence they have in this issue,
and within GoI there is PMO, EAM, MoD, MHA
etc etc. and there will be parallel stake holders on SL side as well.
and building consensus in all this groups.

we are not finding a solution the problem, we are trying to learn about the issue using a "what if" hypothesis. and hopefully who are not aware learn a bit more about the nuances while reading the conversation.

coming to my mention of "local politics", a simple response "what local politics are you referring to?" would have prompted a response from me. you may agree or you correct me. either would be fine with me.

even for LoC my answer will be on similar lines, since i don't have an answer beyond "Govt should take care of it" i rarely make an attempt to give solutions on LoC or LAC issue.

core of your argument seems to be, people are taking this issue simplistically. if you feel strongly about it, just let them know like you are engaging with me. just that do it in such a way that, it take the understanding forward, which you are doing anyways.

let me know, if you need more clarifications.

@Holy Triad just to add a point.

if a solution via negotiations are not being found, it means there are non-negotiables in play(obviously). trying to figure out these non-negotiables from all parties involved is also one way to understand this even better on why negotiations are going slow. some points have already come in previous pages, may be there are more.

 

[Holy Triad]

Govt of India is only one of the stake holders.

Can these below group of people achieve without any approval "just one of the stake holder goi"
Do they allowed to make international maritime deals?

Then how come a stake holder sold the katchatheevu without consulting locals.


You keep dodging the source of the problem saar,i used see in other area of conflicts/arguments you used to hammer the source of the issue,but here ,i didn't even you bringing it up once

fishermen,
fisherman unions,
Fishermen co-operative societies,
fishing village elders,
state government,
local politicians,

within local politicians in this case there are politicians who have "anti-SL" main agenda of their politics and the influence they have in this issue

Why you keep complicating the issue with random factors?
Lemme indulge that line of argument for a while

What's the total percentage of the vote these anti sl parties have

Do u expect us to have pro sl parties too?

That too we can have,inc (hasan ali and haarun) and bjp (subbu).

Does it balance the argument or bringing up unnecessary variables.



Therell be all kinds of politicians in a society, that cannot used to justify or complicate a problem.

there will be parallel stake holders on SL side as well.

Do they respecting our side of the "stake holder's"?

The same way we are discussing here?

"what if" hypothesis

Ill give a what if scenario sir,

What if katchatheevu hasn't been donated...

Lets discuss that

coming to my mention of "local politics", a simple response "what local politics are you referring to?" would have prompted a response from me.

Nope,that's not it,i was refering to this comment

Fundamental reason is basically over-fishing after LTTE matter got resolved.

everything else is local politics.

You simply oversimplified and shifted the blame on local politicians

Even if we say that's true for an argument sake then what should you expect for them to do

Support sl navy from the bleachers

e of your argument seems to be, people are taking this issue simplistically.

Iemme be frank,I'll tell you exactly what i feel,

I don't mind ppl don't support "tamil" fishermen,bcuz everyone have the right of opinion.


But what makes me irritated is the finger wagging....


You ppl temil identity problem..

You ppl learn to fish

Your gormint teach them to fish

We shouldnt be making enemies (but we can insult temils racist donno to fish)

 

[Holy Triad]

@Holy Triad just to add a point.

if a solution via negotiations are not being found, it means there are non-negotiables in play(obviously). trying to figure out these non-negotiables from all parties involved is also one way to understand this even better on why negotiations are going slow. some points have already come in previous pages, may be there are more.

Lemme add few points some of you might not aware,

Direct negotiations between tn and sl fishermen been happening for years without getting any meaningful traction.

Even now they gonna have it very soon

India-Sri Lanka fishers’ talks may resume

MEA seeks list of participants from fishing community in the State

www.thehindu.com

So your argument of anti sl lobby sabotaging goes out the window.


And ill add few accusations leveled by the" tamil fishermen" is that when sl navy chases yhemy outta their patrol area they aggressively ventured into our territorial waters n some attacks were occurred inside our current imbl


I don't have evidence for that besides local news reporting from the fishermen.

Fishermen, who ventured into the sea in 618 boats, had to return empty-handed this morning as the Lankan navy had deployed its vessels, including two ships with cannon and machine guns, much inside Indian waters and refused to allow them even near the IMBL,

Sri Lankan Navy allegedly attacks Indian fishing boats, damages fishing nets

Sri Lankan Navy personnel allegedly attacked Indian fishing boats and damaged more than 100 nets near the International Maritime Boundary Line in the early hours today, fishermen association representatives said here.

www.firstpost.com

Is this ok sir?




Some old news i found
INDIAN COAST GUARD SEIZES A SHIP BELONGING TO THE SRI LANKA NAVY

INDIAN COAST GUARD SEIZES A SHIP BELONGING TO THE SRI LANKA NAVY (Published 1985)

www.nytimes.com

 

[ezsasa]

Iemme be frank,I'll tell you exactly what i feel,

I don't mind ppl don't support "tamil" fishermen,bcuz everyone have the right of opinion.


But what makes me irritated is the finger wagging....


You ppl temil identity problem..

You ppl learn to fish

Your gormint teach them to fish

We shouldnt be making enemies (but we can insult temils racist donno to fish)

- "You ppl temil identity problem.."
last week or week before last, a dravidian-politics fanboy was accusing me in a conversation starting every sentence with "you northees" (which i am not) "you hindi people" (which i am not) , i studied in TN, i worked in TN, my wife is from TN. so tamil identity problem exists and it seems to be growing.


-You ppl learn to fish

-Your gormint teach them to fish

i donno if you listen to andhra AIR local channel especially in rural areas, there is an entire programme every afternoon on how to do fish farming and agriculture. what are the latest diseases and how to tackle them, any new techniques of farming. donno if it happens in TN. they also give information on local or state schemes and how to apply. so yes, they may be farmers or fishermen by trade, but a lot of inputs are given by Govt to make sure they are informed and upto date.

Take the recent varanasi boat motor conversion, it is a government scheme that is making all boats in varanasi ghats to convert from noisy diesel engines to less noisy and efficient CNG engines. Govts do a lot of things at local level, which rest of us are not aware of.

as far as SL issue is concerned, if you make a valid point i will consider it. will respond as i deem fit.

 

[Holy Triad]

last week or week before last, a dravidian-politics fanboy was accusing me in a conversation starting every sentence with "you northees" (which i am not) "you hindi people" (which i am not) , i studied in TN, i worked in TN, my wife is from TN. so tamil identity problem exists and it seems to be growing.

-You ppl learn to fish

-Your gormint teach them to fish

Sorry if it hurt your feelings but it meant to criticize the other ones narrative here

If you read his posts he cleverly build up an narrative and end it up with" an solution " the one i criticized you for supporting.


I cannot ignore the other parallel narratives while im criticizing here.

I wanted to call it out that's all nothing specifically against you.

donno if you listen to andhra AIR local channel especially in rural areas, there is an entire programme every afternoon on how to do fish farming and agriculture. what are the latest diseases and how to tackle them, any new techniques of farming. donno if it happens in TN. they also give information on local or state schemes and how to apply. so yes, they may be farmers or fishermen by trade, but a lot of inputs are given by Govt to make sure they are informed and upto date.

Take the recent varanasi boat motor conversion, it is a government scheme that is making all boats in varanasi ghats to convert from noisy diesel engines to less noisy and efficient CNG engines. Govts do a lot of things at local level, which rest of us are not aware of

Again its totally irrelevant to the issue at hand.... Lets not distract ourselves from the key topic

as far as SL issue is concerned, if you make a valid point i will consider it. will respond as i deem fit

Once again, you ended this argument without touching the source of the problem.

Which is usually unlike of you.


I can't force someone to take my pov,all i can is to defend my pov.


Just curious i gotta ask this, what's your opinion of this if this were to be true

much inside Indian waters and refused to allow them even near the IMBL

Does this worth the discussion or not worth the discussion.


What if they came near apj kalam island in the future

Or near vizag?

 

[ezsasa]

Sorry if it hurt your feelings but it meant to criticize the other ones narrative here

If you read his posts he cleverly build up an narrative and end it up with" an solution " the one i criticized you for supporting.


I cannot ignore the other parallel narratives while im criticizing here.

I wanted to call it out that's all nothing specifically against you.





Again its totally irrelevant to the issue at hand.... Lets not distract ourselves from the key topic




Once again, you ended this argument without touching the source of the problem.

Which is usually unlike of you.


I can't force someone to take my pov,all i can is to defend my pov.


Just curious i gotta ask this, what's your opinion of this if this were to be true




Does this worth the discussion or not worth the discussion.


What if they came near apj kalam island in the future

Or near vizag?

it's not about feelings, it's about the state of affairs in TN. under current after under current at local level is being deliberately created one after other. something is happening in entire south India, i am not liking the direction it is going. and this is the reason i don't think at this point in time, any resolution on SL issue will happen. when it comes closer to issue resolution, State Govt or goI will let the public know about the specific variables remaining in the equation. right now it is too open ended.

i know i am digressing from SL issue while responding to your points, it is deliberate. i am trying to figure out what's troubling you first. if you say all good, i say all good.

 

[Holy Triad]

week or week before last, a dravidian-politics fanboy was accusing me in a conversation starting every sentence with "you northees" (which i am not) "you hindi people" (which i am not) , i studied in TN, i worked in TN, my wife is from TN. so tamil

Should i have to apologize for him or how it works?

You are the mod here, you yourself simplified it as local politics

Another member kept spewing venom as tamil identity crises

And ended giving gyan as fishing crash course as solution

And you go on to endorse it.....

And defended it by bringing up random factors like anti sl parties agenda but

Without mentioning the katchatheevu issue

Where is the balance in that?

The moment i summed up the fingerwgging trend

You bring up Dravidian fanbois comment n your experience with tn..

What should i do with that info....

Is that random fact makes me the Dravidian fanboi

Or you are based tamil?



Again saying this with full regret,i have seen you go this one sided pov...


I Know u subtly hinting my ethnicity Being play here can you be sure of other critics aren't biased by their belief's?


Its easy to dump on us i guess,

 

[Angel of War]

SL is stepping out of the line. Too many of our fishermen have been killed by Lankans.

 

[ezsasa]

Should i have to apologize for him or how it works?

You are the mod here, you yourself simplified it as local politics

Another member kept spewing venom as tamil identity crises

And ended giving gyan as fishing crash course as solution

And you go on to endorse it.....

And defended it by bringing up random factors like anti sl parties agenda but

Without mentioning the katchatheevu issue

Where is the balance in that?

The moment i summed up the fingerwgging trend

You bring up Dravidian fanbois comment n your experience with tn..

What should i do with that info....

Is that random fact makes me the Dravidian fanboi

Or you are based tamil?



Again saying this with full regret,i have seen you go this one sided pov...


I Know u subtly hinting my ethnicity Being play here can you be sure of other critics aren't biased by their belief's?


Its easy to dump on us i guess,

don't assume things on my behalf, if i have a point to make directly, i will. i wanted to give you a background, and i did in the post before this.
didn't we have this same conversation a few years/months ago?

i have already given the answer in my earlier posts, if you don't agree with something just let them know but with the intent on taking the conversation forward.

rest is up to you.

 

[Love Charger]

Should i have to apologize for him or how it works?

You are the mod here, you yourself simplified it as local politics

Another member kept spewing venom as tamil identity crises

And ended giving gyan as fishing crash course as solution

And you go on to endorse it.....

And defended it by bringing up random factors like anti sl parties agenda but

Without mentioning the katchatheevu issue

Where is the balance in that?

The moment i summed up the fingerwgging trend

You bring up Dravidian fanbois comment n your experience with tn..

What should i do with that info....

Is that random fact makes me the Dravidian fanboi

Or you are based tamil?



Again saying this with full regret,i have seen you go this one sided pov...


I Know u subtly hinting my ethnicity Being play here can you be sure of other critics aren't biased by their belief's?


Its easy to dump on us i guess,

Katchatheevu issue was there when congress rueld india , india was a fiefdom and kingdom for congress dynasty , so they gave it away .

 

[Holy Triad]

something is happening in entire south India, i am not liking the direction it is going.

Problems come and go sir,we have to deal with issue at hand period

Its been happening for years, mostly inc are the ones to blamed for this mess.

Let Bjp capitalize that, its an opportunity.

when it comes closer to issue resolution, State Govt or goI will let the public know about the specific variables remaining in the equation. right now it is too open ended.

Why keep Bringing up state gormint into the equation?
As if they control the MEA and defence....

This is bad faith argument

know i am digressing from SL issue while responding to your points, it is deliberate. i am trying to figure out what's troubling you first. if you say all good, i say all good.

I wish its muh personal problem which can be solved by mere digital convos.

If you really wanna know,the sl interest groups(their intel and cultural cultural) feeding narrative to the main stream and people eating from their hands.


If you watch closely that Fishing crash course are originated from That circle.


Meaning sl narrative n the narrative spun here are the very same

 

[ezsasa]

Why keep Bringing up state gormint into the equation?
As if they control the MEA and defence....

This is bad faith argument

because TN government is a stake holder.
just like WB government was a stake holder in BD enclave exclave issue.

India, Sri Lanka to hold talks on fishermen issue

www.thehindu.com

 

[Holy Triad]

because TN government is a stake holder.
just like WB government was a stake holder in BD enclave exclave issue.


View attachment 127055

India, Sri Lanka to hold talks on fishermen issue

www.thehindu.com

Sir
These are all hoqwash,to give credibility to their efforts state gormint can't do zilch in this issue besides nagging/begging


Was Parliament and state gormint were consulted before the katchatheevu sale.....

Please drop the state gormint/local parties argument,it brings down the quality of the convo.

Real stake holders sl gvt and goi

Beyond that all hot gas.

 

[Holy Triad]

because TN government is a stake holder.
just like WB government was a stake holder in BD enclave exclave issue.


View attachment 127055

India, Sri Lanka to hold talks on fishermen issue

www.thehindu.com

Just curious if tn gornint is the real stake holder will they allow tn police to provide armed escort?


The fishermen asking for weapons to defend themselves so can tn gormint to allow them to Mount 50cal on there boats.



What do they bring to the table,really

I have beaten tn politicians b4 but this is not the.place they are in the wrong wrt political as well as official standpoint.

 

[Covfefe]

Sir
These are all hoqwash,to give credibility to their efforts state gormint can't do zilch in this issue besides nagging/begging


Was Parliament and state gormint were consulted before the katchatheevu sale.....

Please drop the state gormint/local parties argument,it brings down the quality of the convo.

Real stake holders sl gvt and goi

Beyond that all hot gas.

Sorry to interrupt, but state government is a very important stakeholder. How Momta didi ditched the Teesta water treaty with BD when MMS wanted to make concessions! And even in this case, if the Central government had consulted the TN State government before making this foolish move we wouldn't be in this situation. And what if, during the negotiations, they agree to something that is unacceptable to the fishermen on our side? There'll be no credibility to that decision anyway and the struggle continues. And our position will be weakened because the Central government makes some commitment and the fishermen want something else

 

[Covfefe]

Just curious if tn gornint is the real stake holder will they allow tn police to provide armed escort?


The fishermen asking for weapons to defend themselves so can tn gormint to allow them to Mount 50cal on there boats.



What do they bring to the table,really

I have beaten tn politicians b4 but this is not the.place they are in the wrong wrt political as well as official standpoint.

Not as per the international law. Only the captain of some ship is allowed to keep a weapon for personal safety in order to avoid some hostile takeover. Government cannot allow this
Making informal directions to the Coast Guard and Navy can go a long way. The day they capture or kill one of ours retaliate either in their waters or ours- doesn't matter. They must be very much aware that violence will meet with violence. Sadly, that's not the case now

 

[Holy Triad]

And even in this case, if the Central government had consulted the TN State government before making this foolish move we wouldn't be in this situation.

Exactly my point,

I meant goi can override the state gormint without giving headsup.

Im not aware of this wb bd treaty but wrt this issue,goi has overrode tn.gormint far too many times.

On moral ground yes but legally goi can finger the state.

 

[Holy Triad]

Making informal directions to the Coast Guard and Navy can go a long way. The day they capture or kill one of ours retaliate either in their waters or ours- doesn't matter. They must be very much aware that violence will meet with violence. Sadly, that's not the case now

From response to narrative everything is one sided that's why i keep posting on this issue.


One thing for me to be happy is that more n more ppl starting to look into the issue the way it supposed to be

As Indian fishermen imbl issue

That's enough for me for the time being

I request you all humbly to not fall for the fishing crash course refinance bs narrative

Thank you all