Arjun vs T90 MBT

[STGN]

What assumption?
I am showing you why your calculation of the turret width is wrong, its because you based your calculation on assuming the mantle is relatively smaller in relation to the turret than it actually is, you only used roughly 0.8 of the width of the mantle for the full mantle width which is why your entire calculation goes wrong and you overestimates the size of the turret.
Besides I don't understand which blue dotted lines you want me to extend and for what purpose?
STGN

 

[ersakthivel]

what assumption?
I am showing you why your calculation of the turret width is wrong, its because you based your calculation on assuming the mantle is relatively smaller in relation to the turret than it actually is, you only used roughly 0.8 of the width of the mantle for the full mantle width which is why your entire calculation goes wrong and you overestimates the size of the turret.
Besides i don't understand which blue dotted lines you want me to extend and for what purpose?
Stgn

why don't you extend those blue los lines ,
which run parallel to the length of the hull ,
along both sides of the gunmantlet,
which have 940 mm LOS thickness and 450 mm LOS thickness written besides them ?

I WILL EXPLAIN THE PURPOSE LATER.

 

[Damian]

i didn't flaunt spurious,dubious 60 degree frontal turret weakness drawing of ARJUN all over the forums in web like you did.
it took me 30 pages o argument from my side for you to correct it.Don't you remeber?

You did not correct anything, because my argument was correct. The only thing you do, is producing tons of chaotic posts full of your fantasy... in fact your only effect is that people all over the world laugh from you and wonders how it is possible to produce such amount of BS.

 

[ersakthivel]

You did not correct anything, because my argument was correct. The only thing you do, is producing tons of chaotic posts full of your fantasy... in fact your only effect is that people all over the world laugh from you and wonders how it is possible to produce such amount of BS.

then who posted this spurious BS allover the forums in the net?

And changed it into this,
after tons of chaotic arguments from islamic fundamentalist ,
to the one below in page no-40 of this same thread.

 

[Damian]

Well it is not BS, it is correct, proven by photos and Dejawolfs 3d model.

It is not my problem that bunch of fanboys are incapable to accept reality... but as the old proverb says - If reality disagrees with you, all the worse for reality?

 

[Damian]

I know damn well, i am advancing some logical arguments, not pure BS.

Logical?

You know that mentally ill people also believe that they have perfectly healthy mind.

you are looking like a bandhar that gulped a plate of ginger.

Try harder to impress me.

You think that these would change anything without isolated ammunition compartment?

Well I hope if you are so sure, you would agree to participate in ballistic tests. We would pack tank with ammunition and put you inside, and then fire at a tank, and see if you would still be alive.

 

[ersakthivel]

Well it is not BS, it is correct, proven by photos and Dejawolfs 3d model.

It is not my problem that bunch of fanboys are incapable to accept reality... but as the old proverb says - If reality disagrees with you, all the worse for reality?

some spurious crap drawings with no attention to dimension and angles and no knowledge of perspective drawing is your way of winning the argument, I suppose.
Is that what people teach you in universities?

 

[ersakthivel]

Logical?

You know that mentally ill people also believe that they have perfectly healthy mind.



Try harder to impress me.

You think that these would change anything without isolated ammunition compartment?

Isolated may be not in mk-I, but with separation ,and enough armor protection to stop a cook-off

Well I hope if you are so sure, you would agree to participate in ballistic tests. We would pack tank with ammunition and put you inside, and then fire at a tank, and see if you would still be alive.

You and gang of friends can sit inside a T-90 and take the test with flying colors is my suggestion.

Well,one can only impress people who want to know something, not people who pretend to be asleep, whenever it is inconvenient to counter.
the refusal to join the dotted lines is the proof i need for you guys having no interest in getting some inconvenient facts exposed, so typical of the arguments advanced by you so far.

Well in the absence of anything logical it is degenerating into a pissing contest , so I will stop.

 

[Shirman]

I request MOD to delete the above Post/ Posts

And @ ersakthivel Sir,Plz don't use foul language at Damian and @ Damian Sir plz avoid heating up

Chill its a forum guys

 

[Dejawolf]

then who posted this spurious BS allover the forums in the net?

And changed it into this,
after tons of chaotic arguments from islamic fundamentalist ,
to the one below in page no-40 of this same thread.

first one is most likely correct though.
oh and don't forget to add some extra lines for the weakspot:

 

[ersakthivel]

first one is most likely correct though.
oh and don't forget to add some extra lines for the weakspot:

Since the software wont charge you anything you can add as many lines as you wish.

You can go to google and type arjun vs T-90 and see for yourself that this thread comes right on top.

So the shit is going to hit all over the forums on the net, that's why you guys are persisting like this.

But the more you refuse to join those blue dotted lines , the more you will be exposed.Bye

 

[Dejawolf]

But the more you refuse to join those blue dotted lines , the more you will be exposed.Bye

lol, yeah, says the guy who thinks the gunner sits in front of the mantlet.

 

[Damian]

some spurious crap drawings with no attention to dimension and angles and no knowledge of perspective drawing is your way of winning the argument, I suppose.
Is that what people teach you in universities?

You and gang of friends can sit inside a T-90 and take the test with flying colors is my suggestion.

The survivability will be +/- same in T-90S and Arjun.

The fact is that the only tank I would wish to fight in, is M1 Abrams... at least for the 3rd generation MBT's.

Well,one can only impress people who want to know something, not people who pretend to be asleep, whenever it is inconvenient to counter.
the refusal to join the dotted lines is the proof i need for you guys having no interest in getting some inconvenient facts exposed, so typical of the arguments advanced by you so far.

What dotted lines?!

There is another old proverb - a drowning man will hold to a razor. You are doing exactly such thing, you know you loose discussion, but you will try to catch any point to at least try to fight with reasonable arguments of your adversaries. It is pointless, because truth always defeat lie and fantasy.

Well in the absence of anything logical it is degenerating into a pissing contest , so I will stop.

Oh so finally you are admitting that your chaotic posts are nothing more than a poor propaganda, fantasy etc.?

 

[STGN]

why don't you extend those blue los lines ,
which run parallel to the length of the hull ,
along both sides of the gunmantlet,
which have 940 mm LOS thickness and 450 mm LOS thickness written besides them ?

I WILL EXPLAIN THE PURPOSE LATER.

Forgive me for not using blue dotted lines to extend the lines on the top of the turret I think it was getting too cluttered so I used green lines instead. But I did add some blue dottet lines to show the edges of the mantle from the front now tell me the purpose, please.
STGN

 

[ersakthivel]

Forgive me for not using blue dotted lines to extend the lines on the top of the turret I think it was getting too cluttered so I used green lines instead. But I did add some blue dottet lines to show the edges of the mantle from the front now tell me the purpose, please.
STGN

however cluttered it may be thank GOD you tried at last.Anyway the left side green line if drawn properly will go very near the center of the hatch hole as well.

Since each crew hatch measures just 550 mm in width ,
and the blue LOS line with 940 mm LOS thickness marked will reach the middle of the right side crew hole hatch,
only half the width of the crew hole (that is 275 mm length(550/2)) overhangs this line.

So if you add another 400 mm of elbow room for the crew members who sit right under the crew hatch,
2X400mm =800 mm+1640 mm=2440mm is supposed to be the width of the crew compartment(bordered by side wall armor mounting painted in white in the photo ) in the hull.
The total arjun turret width measured from outside is 3280 mm.

So 3280-2440mm=840 mm of space is the total available space available for armor on both sides of the arjun turret.each side has 420 mm(including the storage boxes)

So for the frontal turret armor KUNAl's estimate of 1000+ mm LOS thickness is also correct.
Side turret armor should have atleast 420 mm LOS thickness at least till the crew hatch .
After the middle or end of the crew hatch storage boxes reduce this width to armor space to LOS thickness of 300 plus mm is my estimate.

this is my estimate based on the schema of original arjun drawing..

So arjun having composite armor placement all around seems right,please post your clarification.

So from edge to edge all the three seats of the crew are situated within 275+1140 +275=1690 mm width .


That is from a line drawn through the center of the main gun barrel all three seats are situated within 845 mm to the left side and 845 mm to the right side according to the schematic drawing.

So if you add another 400 mm of elbow room for the crew members who sit right under the crew hatch,
2X400mm =800 mm+1690 mm=2490mm is supposed to be the width of the crew compartment(bordered by side wall armor mounting painted in white in the photo ) in the hull.
The total arjun turret width measured from outside is 3280 mm.

The picture above also shows that crew of the arjun is tightly packed together near the center circle of the crew compartment.

 

[ersakthivel]

lol, yeah, says the guy who thinks the gunner sits in front of the mantlet.

the man sits much closer to the center of hull than at the extreme left as you depicted is my argument.

the above picture also shows an elbow room of only 400 mm or less.

SO according to the green line in the picture below(the one to the left is mischieviously drawn out of alignment due to clutter)

So from the center line drawn through the barrel of the gun the crew hatch center is about 570 mm away.add another 295 mm to reach the crew hatch edge.Crew hatch edge is located 865 mm from the center line.add another 400 mm as elbow room.the crew compartment edge finishes around 1265 mm from gun barrel center.But the turret side wall is 1600 mm away from the gun barrel center.

Also your vision blocks(scribbled red box) is well left of the main sight cut away so no shortage of armor behind those vision blocks.

 

[Damian]

The picture above also shows that crew of the arjun is tightly packed together near the center circle of the crew compartment.

And how they are packed on Dejawolfs 3d model genius? You can see even the race ring shape on the 3d model, that can be compared to what you see on photo.

Jeeez Louise!

 

[militarysta]

Hope this better show where you went wrong:

the 90 cm is calculated on the asumtion that the upper picture figure of 114 is right other wise its roughly 0.8 times the total width of the mantle.
STGN

So my first draw is wrong -my stupid mistake.
Newest vesion:

 

[STGN]

So my first draw is wrong -my stupid mistake.
Newest vesion:

Directed at me? How do you get that from what I wrote? But if that armor configuration which you mark with red is roughly true and that grainy internal picture seems to suggest it is there is no way that distance is equal to 1m. Look at the side shot of the ERA clad Arjun, now if your estimation was correct the road wheels would also be close to 1m in diameter. As the Arjun is a freak Leo2 it also seems to use the 70cm diameter road wheels. so I am guessing that Dejawolf top down view gives a pretty accurate estimate.
STGN

 

[militarysta]

Directed at me? How do you get that from what I wrote? But if that armor configuration which you mark with red is roughly true and that grainy internal picture seems to suggest it is there is no way that distance is equal to 1m. Look at the side shot of the ERA clad Arjun, now if your estimation was correct the road wheels would also be close to 1m in diameter. As the Arjun is a freak Leo2 it also seems to use the 70cm diameter road wheels. so I am guessing that Dejawolf top down view gives a pretty accurate estimate.
STGN

All is based on one right mesurmetn made on real tank. Priviously i think that whole gun mantle mask is 114cm width, but it's seems that it's even more width becouse when I marked point to the first mesurment it was whole gun mantled mask width, when Kunla on his photo mark as 114cm only the thickes part -when the width is smaller then on factory photo. So I dacide to use whole turret width (3,5m). And in that scenario it can be possible, and notice that sucht huge LOS can be possible whit those funny statsment that Arjun have better prtoection then indian T-90SA. Both have almoust the same Kanchan armour, so better protected will be tank whit bigger LOS. And without obvious waeak place near mai sight overall LOS IMHO is slighty bigger in Ajrun. It's madness but IMHO Indian developers decide to compensate weak Kanchan performance by increase whole LOS to the value closer to M1A2 (960mm LOS) then Leopard-2 (840mm LOS). Of course my draw should have some error so it can be 950-980m LOS in Ajrun -those mesurment is most optymistic.

BTW: Kanchan looks like armour very cloe to the polish CAWA-2 armour (late 1990s.) If someone want I can wrote smth about CAWA-2 and it's perforamance. Mass Efficensy, thickens effciency, etc.