Arjun vs T90 MBT

[Virendra]

Our air base count has improved in NE and WB with recent additions like Panagarh, Tezpur.
At the Ladakh front, for some reason we stopped short on one base, but few others were reopened.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Still can slow them down considerably to take another shot....According to me Tanks work on the principle of Fire power, Mobility and Armour So the ATGMs will atleast cause considerable damage to one of those three things...

The problem with deploying atgms in the plateau of ladakh is that they will be out in the open without any cover....suicide anyone?
Not to mention that the battlefield will be buzzing with drones and gunships,without aircover infantry would never survive a day of intense fighting.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Our air base count has improved in NE and WB with recent additions like Panagarh, Tezpur.
At the Ladakh front, for some reason we stopped short on one base, but few others were reopened.

One factor that we (IA) have as advantage is that we have a long experience of sustaining bases through air route only....something our neighbours haven't had much experience.it will be crucial as modern warfare is manuevre warfare with swift responses to any battlefield event.
Now coupling that with our impressive airlift capability, we should field more helipads and airfields to make optimum use of our resources

 

[Damian]

T-90MS is not light tank, it is Main Battle Tank just like Arjun.

WPB Anders as it's codename sugest is Multipurpose Combat Platform that among many have a Light Tank/Fire Support Vehicle variant.

 

[Shirman]

The problem with deploying atgms in the plateau of ladakh is that they will be out in the open without any cover....suicide anyone?
Not to mention that the battlefield will be buzzing with drones and gunships,without aircover infantry would never survive a day of intense fighting.

I Guess the Poster @ Satish must have got the Idea from Hizbollah Tactics which too were fought in the hilly, mountainous regions of South Lebanon. They only had Variety of ATGMS like TOW-1, Metis, Konkurs, Kornet, Rpg-29 etc and were up against Israeli Gunships Cobra n Apaches iAI made UAVS with Merkava 4 Mbts during their 2006 war.

 

[Damian]

Israelis conclusion from 2006 Lebanon War was that without tanks support, they would have much higher casualties. Also the highest casualties among tanks were in the obsolete, less protected Merkava Mk2 versions, Mk3 and Mk4 versions were sufficently enough protected.

 

[DivineHeretic]

If u would look at the locations where the tanks were lost, u would find that they were lost only in the urban setup,nightmare for any tank commander.
In the open, flir onboard the gunships,uavs as well as the thermal sights onboard the merkava picked out the AT teams from a vey safe range.
However,i would like to clarify that atgms do posses a critical threat to armor,both tanks and apc/ifv. Hence the development of APS

 

[Shirman]

T-90MS is not light tank, it is Main Battle Tank just like Arjun.

WPB Anders as it's codename sugest is Multipurpose Combat Platform that among many have a Light Tank/Fire Support Vehicle variant.

Yes Sir I Know that. I just wanted to tell That an above 60 tonne Mammoth ie- Arjun with no supporting infrastructure cannot be used for mountainous warfare when There r Options available which r lighter, Modular more readily designed for air lift capability (extremely important) and have more or less same Firepower to hold the ground and win the day for the army...........

 

[DivineHeretic]

Yes Sir I Know that. I just wanted to tell That an above 60 tonne Mammoth ie- Arjun with no supporting infrastructure cannot be used for mountainous warfare when There r Options available which r lighter, Modular more readily designed for air lift capability (extremely important) and have more or less same Firepower to hold the ground and win the day for the army...........

Not exactly true.the primary role of a tank is to punch through enemy lines, so it is usually in hostile territory,unless defending.
Thus no supporting infrastructure is available to them even in the deserts,or the plains...so long as u can keep the supply line for the tanks open they can be used anywhere where they can be moved.
In anycase india is gradually building up a base in ladakh to enable t72 regiment to be deployed there permanently.

 

[sayareakd]

Govt had plans for 200 light tanks (track and wheel) but now it appears that T90 is going to take its place.

 

[DivineHeretic]

That would make sense.
I would have rather preferred a formation of attack helis to take over the role of armor.they would not be limited by tarrain and would aid in swift response in a manuevring battlefield.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

1.In Simple you dont know about Addons, here it goes >>

upgraded Pz87WE an up-Armored Leo2A4

Upgrade Leo2a4-SG

Arjun turret from Armour module from front to end is around +1800cm without ERA part as shown in MK2, With these upgrades LEO-2A4 is a formadiable tank and same can be applied on Arjun MK-1 as design is very similar to Leo2a4, Dispite these if anyone thinks such upgrades are useless is silly, And saying LEO-2A5 is impenetrable by most advance round around is also silly claims..

And many more upgrades based on Addons :

About power-pack, 1400hp is just doing fine, And turbo-charged version is there too in new upgrade..


2. I am not, Its not irrelevant to this thread..


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well it's just that leopard 2A4 is a 55 ton tank with no upgrades, Arjun is a 58 ton tank with no upgrades.

this is a 59 tonne leopard 2A5 fielded back in 1992. the front turret is nearly 1.5 meters thick. and pretty much impenetrable to any round fielded today.
compared to this, the Arjun isn't very impressive.

well, IMO, the Arjun turret is a lost cause. better to scrap the whole design, and build a new smaller narrower turret. with compartmentalized ammunition. hull design is decent, with a good powerpack.

i know. and i'm comparing it to a leopard.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

T-72M1 Ajaya is operating N.E since early 90s, T-90S made in India are not same in weight as Russian T-90A..

T-90S Indian made are more heavy coz of Kanchan Armour inputs, Moving T-90S via IL-76 is same as Arjun MK-1..

 

[DivineHeretic]

T-72M1 Ajaya is operating N.E since early 90s, T-90S made in India are not same in weight as Russian T-90A..

T-90S Indian made are more heavy coz of Kanchan Armour inputs, Moving T-90S via IL-76 is same as Arjun MK-1..

Il76 has a max payload of 45-50 tons,so i doubt either t90 or arjun can be airlifted by the said aircraft.t72 most definitely can be.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The best options for Himalayan activity is to have dedicated light tanks with addon upgrades with Armour modules / slat/net Armour and APS both soft and hard.. >>

Anders

CV-90-120

 

[SPIEZ]

@Kunal

OT, but can you tell me how tanks were transported by British and Americans in the Iran war 90 and 03?

 

[DivineHeretic]

I think the IA cancelled the tender for light tanks some time back.
One of the reasons might be that these would be sitting ducks infront of pla. Due to superior infrastructure they can move tanks by road to our border regions.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Via Ships..

@Kunal
OT, but can you tell me how tanks were transported by British and Americans in the Iran war 90 and 03?

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Nope, Not yet ..

If you meant that these light tanks are sitting ducks then you may find this surprising that Anders is perhaps better than T-72 in-terms of mobility, Crew protection and firepower also China infrastructure is good but not that good..

I think the IA cancelled the tender for light tanks some time back.One of the reasons might be that these would be sitting ducks infront of pla. Due to superior infrastructure they can move tanks by road to our border regions.

 

[Dejawolf]

Arjun turret from Armour module from front to end is around +1800cm without ERA part as shown in MK2, With these upgrades LEO-2A4 is a formadiable tank and same can be applied on Arjun MK-1 as design is very similar to Leo2a4, Dispite these if anyone thinks such upgrades are useless is silly, And saying LEO-2A5 is impenetrable by most advance round around is also silly claims..

+18m thick? so you're trying to tell me that the front turret armour is more than twice as thick as the length of the tank?
i doubt that...

as for the leopard 2A4 Evolution tanks. they're designed with urban warfare in mind, and thus the front turret armour doesn't have the same amount of resistance. and they have a fatal flaw, there's no upgraded armour around the GPS, so the armour in that region is thinner than the rest of the turret.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You doubt ? ,+180cm to be precious and that is..

These are modules can be reactive as well as NERA, Or hybrid module as its lighter and compact..

+18m thick? so you're trying to tell me that the front turret armour is more than twice as thick as the length of the tank?
i doubt that...

as for the leopard 2A4 Evolution tanks. they're designed with urban warfare in mind, and thus the front turret armour doesn't have the same amount of resistance. and they have a fatal flaw, there's no upgraded armour around the GPS, so the armour in that region is thinner than the rest of the turret??.