Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[ersakthivel]

Arguments about turret designs... seriously, you need explanations for even such obvious things?



I know that children do not understand advertisement typical for such silly TV shows. This is what image is worth more than words, image is objective, gives possibility to make own conclusions.

You can masturbate yourself listening what these people talk there, for me and most people that have greater and deeper understanding of subject it is nothing special, what is said there, nothing new either, we had such solutions from even 1930's I suppose, French were first that were experimenting with gyrostabilization of sights and main weapon, Americans were first that fielded tanks with such stabilization, Soviets had stabilization for main sights in some of their pre WWII tanks with special trigger mechanism that fired gun when it was aligned with main sight.

So if for you it is some rocket science, for us it is nothing new and special.



Yeah, you can say that the most advanced and most experienced armies around the world like US Army, Russian Army, whole NATO and ex Warsaw Pact are just bunch of idiots, but you know what, I take their experiences and knowledge over your ridiculous posts, and you know what, I think that damn fanboys like you do not deserve my waste of time on them. Do not respond to this post, you are not welcome to discuss with me, as I do not tolerate trolls.

THE DOCUMENTARY SAID FOR THE FIRST TIME IN INDIA , not for the first time in the world.

if you are given a production drawing you may probably hold it upside down is what i know "YOUR DEEP UNDERSTANDING OF TECHNICAL STUFF".

I don't understand why a non technical teenager like you ,
who doesnot even know the difference between a cartoon and production drawing and perspective drawing,
getting upset over such technical stuff.

Another great mystery is why racists trolls like you are given greater tolerance ,
and allowed to rant personal abuses all the time here,
while even a mild comment from me is deleted.
Now you are proving that you are not even capable of watching some TV documentary.

 

[ersakthivel]

Yes, this proves that designers are aware of this tank designing principle, however for some reason turret is designed such way, it does not provide such protection completely for crew compartment and bustle. IMHO there was a good reason, and this reason is weight efficency of armor. If you look at the vehicle weight and where composite armor is placed and compare it with other modern MBT's, their weight and composite armor placement. Weight efficency of armor might be plausible answer to this problem.

I doubt that these people that developed Arjun are idiots, so they just choose trade off, good protection for purely front armor and lower protection for complete frontal 60 degrees. It is reasonable explanation. Of course someone might sit at this problem and think using constructive criticism, or can be unreasonable fanboy who believe more in slogans than even in his own mind and constructive criticism ability, it is a choice, everyone needs to make.

I actually write my bachelors work, and I can say allready that such tradeoffs and sacrifices might be sometimes the only way to move forward in military programs, especially for nations that are building their scientific and industrial base from scratch, and this is nothing to be shame of, but it is good to be aware of own limitations, be critical, and do not let to be overoptimistic, it is a bad thing that leads to arrogance and fatal mistakes.

this image alone indicates that they know the concept of armor protection on the sides 1000 times better than you,

Now you open your eyes wide and see the curving in of the inner turret wall after the TC'c seat,
what is the purpose?Does it have a corresponding curving in on the outside of the TURRET?

A big no. So it indicates a cavity for composite armor after Tc's seat for ARJUn turret side after the TC's seat in the space between the curved in inner wall and the straight outer wall of ARJUn turret.

When it is the case after the TC's seat, it is stupid to argue that there is no composite armor in front of the TC's seat on the side turret where it is more needed.

Placement of composite armor all along the sides of the turret after the Tc's seat .

you are blindly arguing there is no composite armor in front of the TC's set on turret side,

Here you are seeing the evidence of composite armor behind the TC's seat,all along the ARJUN turret side.

Can any rational man accept your argument that there is composite armor behind the Tc's seat in ARJUn and not in front of the TC's seat?

SO stop your unsolicited advice .No trade-offs were made and no issues like weight inefficiency as you alone across the seven seas sitting in poland has discovered,

What is disgusting is that you guys are the only ones peddling this spurious non existent issue,

of side turret armor weakness of ARJUN ,

it is nowhere to be found on the net and never ever Indian army commented about this aspect of arjun,

if the issue is real IA would have voiced it's strongest protest publicly,
since they were frank about ARJUN all the time involved in the development of ARJUn from the beginning,

it is no russian T-90 that landed on indian shores all of a sudden,

with faulty night vision,

and flailing crew with heat strokes,

and jamming electronics in summer heat,

with ever ready to cook off turret because of the shells lying in a heap on the ground,

with non existent side armor based on the shoot me to smoke dubious turret geometry principle .

So the composite armor is weight efficient and placed all around as per the wordings in the army recognition site ,
from where you lifted some pictures of old discarded tank ex design and,
parading it as weaker side turret protection of ARJUN all over the net with another so called tank expert posting here.

So you can better concentrate on your bachelor's studies than throughly exposing your incompetence to sit in judgement of things way above your head.

 

[Damian]

I don't even want to comment these bollocks of yours. Keep in mind that whole world is laughing from people like you, as I shown your posts to other people.

Not to mention that neither you read with understanding my post, neither you are actually arguing with me but with your own fantasy. Perhaps in future, when you finally learn how to properly read in english, write in english and using quote option, then perhaps we will be able to discuss, for now however your post is nothing more than a babble.

 

[sayareakd]

what does this image says

 

[ersakthivel]

what does this image says

this image says pixel measuring gurus who put vision block in front of Tc,

to justify their LOS armor thickness of 450 mm behind the main sights are frauds of the first order.

in reality as i rightly pointed out the vision blocks(or the red scribbled box ) are infront of the gunner and not in front of the Tc,

and there is no way to estimate the frontal armor LOS behind the main sight by simply interpreting a picture wrongly.

 

[ersakthivel]

I don't even want to comment these bollocks of yours. Keep in mind that whole world is laughing from people like you, as I shown your posts to other people.

Not to mention that neither you read with understanding my post, neither you are actually arguing with me but with your own fantasy. Perhaps in future, when you finally learn how to properly read in english, write in english and using quote option, then perhaps we will be able to discuss, for now however your post is nothing more than a babble.

whole of india is not in awe of a polish teenager ,
doing bacelors simply unable to counter any technical argument either,

Another thing is the whole of india is in shock and awe by your great english competency
with which you are conducting debates with my horrible, horrible level of english,



provoking me is beyond your ability,

I can post through the night making you strut like a cat on the hot tin roof,

but that's not my intention,

I have seen much in real life.

So stop this joke and retire for the night,

 

[sayareakd]

this image says pixel measuring gurus who put vision block in front of Tc,

to justify their LOS armor thickness of 450 mm behind the main sights are frauds of the first order.

in reality as i rightly pointed out the vision blocks(or the red scribbled box ) are infront of the gunner and not in front of the Tc,

may be that is why they have three different parts (cabines) in the simulators for Arjun tank.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Guys Clam down..

If one do not agree with other respect his view and keep move on with your view, I understand its conflicting but each of you have your own reasons..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Allow me more >>

what does this image says

 

[sayareakd]

Yeah Kunal sir is right, all of you have spend so much time ofcourse we all get enlightened from the discussion, so in future when we see Arjun tank we know what questions to be asked.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Allow me more >>

Commander

Gunner

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Commander MFDs >

Panoramic view

Multifunctional Display slaved with Panoramic sight

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Loader Place >>

^^ Note the Independent Isolated pressurized tubes with pressure meter above ( Was not seen in previous pictures )

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Driver Seat >>

===================================


Remember this pictures are mixed from MK-1 and MK-2 prototype..

 

[sayareakd]

^^ Note the Independent Isolated pressurized tubes with pressure meter above ( Was not seen in previous pictures )

good find Kunal sir they are saying this for long time.

 

[sayareakd]

Driver Seat >>

===================================


Remember this pictures are mixed from MK-1 and MK-2 prototype..

still think that Driver need reverse camera with separate rugged display.

 

[Dixit13]

You cant measure accurate dimension of anything using a photo, because of angle and depth of field.
And for your kind information, i m used to be an 3d architectural visualization expert and founder of Computer graphics India (Computer Graphics Portal for Digital Artists, Animators and Visual Effects Professionals) ..........so lay off!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Boom !

 

[Abhi9]

still think that Driver need reverse camera with separate rugged display.

I think this display will also provide the driver with night vision scene of the outside. Driver passive night vision is one of the features of MK2

 

[methos]

The only problem with this technique is the DRDO's hull size on production drawing,
where the tank is right angles to the viewer,
is being used on PERSPECTIVE DRAWING type photographs,
for comparing other objects that are more than 3 meters away from the frontal hull,
with scant regard for the angle of the planes and perspective reduction of visual measurement due to different depth of planes.

Scale measurements using pixels have been done on multiple images, where sometimes the angle of the hull and the turret towards the camera is the same. They also sometimes did measure the hull size in the same plane as the turret (like STGN did).

the reason for you to keep quiet through out this measurement debate until now and intervening right now is quite clear to me.

Because I do not post often nor regularily in this forum. I don't check it everyday and I don't think that replying to post older than a few days makes sense. You are making references out of context to the "Arjun vs T90 MBT" where I said everything necessary to understand my absence in this discussion, it just happened that the forum admins of this forum don't seem to allow me using the f-word as adverb, while many other members use it ad hominem. If you checked the mentioned thread prior the admins deleted my post, you would know why I don't post there.

trolls are the guys who push their own view without any scientific or technical basis for their view, What I did was to try a universally accepted scaling technique that can be verified by any member in this forum by simply taking print out of the ARJUN tank photo and measure it themselves.

You don't use an "universally accepted scaling technique" - many people here, including me, have shown you the limitations and faults of your technique. Since you only restrain your posts on this wrong technique this makes you by your definition an troll.

It is tiresome, but let me repeat that the average size of the head of adult man has no place in a discussion on military,
as "one of the arjun has no armor worth the name on the side" proponent ,
has himself posted that he has a head that measures 250 mm on the ARJUN vs T-90 thread.

An important thing in disscussions which you seem to loose quite often, is the context. He didn't post that his face (the head seen from the front) is 250 mm; the human head is not shaped like a cylinder! It is longer than it's wide, unless you are a freaky mutant.

Any way if you guys don't agree on head measurement, then answer what is the width of the crew hatch cover ? and do the comparision once again.

[...]

So what is the size of the crew hatch cover in other tanks? And what is the crew hatch cover size of ARJUN MBT?

Maybe you should take a look at real values from other tanks to estimate the diameter of the crew hatches, instead of randomly inventing values.
In case of the M1 Abrams the commander's hatch has a diameter of 17 inches (432 mm), while the loader's hatch has an diameter of 19 inches (483 mm)! The average American is taller and wider than the average Indian, so why should the Arjun have 550 mm large hatches?