Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)
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It is not easy to change your doctrine of warfare because you have a home grown product. The IA and IAF are two organisations which redefine everything. The IA wanted a Lepoard II in the size of T 72 and the IAF wanted a Mirage 2000 in a Gnat. These are really hard things to achieve and the DGMF and IAF must realise the limitations of certain things. And coming back to the topic. The Arjun is a good tank but a lot of changes has to be made to absorb it into the Armed forces properly to realize its full potential. The Cold start doctrine might help it a lot as the strike group formations have both offensive and defensive strike corps together.
I really hope the Arjun shines. Yes, it took a long time, yes it was over budget - in that aspect politicians were to blame, DRDO had a bad brain drain problem, and the IA kept changing the goal posts.
But India now has IMHO a world class tank.
Has anyone seen pics of the destroyed Russian tanks in the Georgia conflict?
T series is THAT vulnerable.
We are lucky the main enemy also has T series tanks. Neither would stand a chance against say a Leo 2, or a M1A1 would they?
But India now has IMHO a world class tank.
Has anyone seen pics of the destroyed Russian tanks in the Georgia conflict?
T series is THAT vulnerable.
We are lucky the main enemy also has T series tanks. Neither would stand a chance against say a Leo 2, or a M1A1 would they?
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Welcome aboard sir. Sir but we will not be facing the M1s or the Leo2s for a very long time sir. I think Arjun might not stand a chance against these two but is a far better tank in this region. I too would like to see Arjun serve in the IA. But weren't the T series tanks of Georgia brought down by the T series of the Russian army? So it is only the crew training and definition of objectve that is more important in the tank warfare in this region as most of the tanks are equally matched.
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1. Arjun can definetly stand a chance again M1 and Leo2. Arjun carries the Lahat Atgm with a monstrous range which can far outgun others. Arjun's Kanchan armour, bms, active protection system all place it in a similar category as the more expensive nato tanks.
2. Arjun is the best tank in the region by far but a huge overkill viz a viz PA.
3. I am no expert but AFAIK tanks on both sides were taken out by IEDs, RPGs, ATGMs, PGMs, Cannon fire etc. rather than classic armour on armour battle:tank:
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That is because of some stupid strategies. The tanks main advantage is its mobility and fire power. Tanks are designed to fight in open areas and spaces. If you start moving a tank inside streets then you compromise both its mobility and fire power. Let me say....The tanks most vulnerable places are it's top and its back. If you drive a tank in the city streets you give anyone a complete 3D view of the tank. And worse sometimes the armour guys move the tanks as convoys in the city streets. All the guy has to do is hit the First tank and the last one. The rest of the tanks come to a stand still. Tanks cant be used without a good infantry support. The ATGms are another lethal enemy for the tanks but with good jamming systems that are present in the tanks gives it a lower probability of hit to kill ratio. Tanks are best in open field and deserts. This is the place where the tanks can be used to its maximum potential. With support from a good short range air defense tanks can be lethal weapons. The Germans were the only guys who used tanks in the best way possible. but due to poor air defense they couldnt stand the IL2 and the T34 combo.
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I was a bit confused as the DRDO site didnt mention the Lahat anywhere...
http://www.drdo.org/products/mbt.htm
http://www.drdo.org/products/mbt.htm
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LAHAT is an Israeli ATGM, bought off the shelf for arming the Arjun MBTs
I am all for the use of overwhelming force in the heat of battle. If the Arjun can perform, India will have a winner
sayareakd
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It is called CLGM (which is one of the local versions of LAHAT) it is made with Israel to suit our requirements.
The Arjun was a good tank even two years ago. Now I am not so sure. Technology seems to have passed the L11A5 type 120mm rifled guns. Adding the Lahat doesn't really address the underlying problem of gun power. The Al Khalid and Type 98 are modern, if not cutting edge. From the front they have respectable protection that demands a high velocity gun. Using HESH rounds on them will not work. Add to this the lack of a modern FLIR and CITV on the Arjun, lack of digitalization, lack of battle management, an engine no longer in production and a training program rapidly going towards a complete 3 man crew set up.
It is time to forgo the Arjun and if India wants a domestically produced tank, take the parts of the Arjun that work and create an Arjun II. A better gun, 1500hp MTU engine, ERA on the sides and top, CITV, battle management system, better FLIR for the gunner, keep the suspension and hull/turret designs, keep the Lahat etc.
Build more CL70 bridges and rail cars, develop a doctrine that uses a 60 ton tank and create a training program from recruit to unit to create units that can fight with and along side the Arjun.
If India was facing invasion the task would be a lot easier. But in almost any realistic appraisal of the situation India is going to be the one going after Pakistan. This means bridging equipment. If you can't get across the canals fast, Cold Start is Dead Start. The Lahat is a decent anti-helicopter weapon v the Cobra if the optics are upgraded. But aside from that given the bridging equipment India has now the T-90 being lighter can be gotten across faster and at more points.
Unless India suddenly decides to invest in the tail behind the Arjuns tooth, its a worthless waste of money.
It is time to forgo the Arjun and if India wants a domestically produced tank, take the parts of the Arjun that work and create an Arjun II. A better gun, 1500hp MTU engine, ERA on the sides and top, CITV, battle management system, better FLIR for the gunner, keep the suspension and hull/turret designs, keep the Lahat etc.
Build more CL70 bridges and rail cars, develop a doctrine that uses a 60 ton tank and create a training program from recruit to unit to create units that can fight with and along side the Arjun.
If India was facing invasion the task would be a lot easier. But in almost any realistic appraisal of the situation India is going to be the one going after Pakistan. This means bridging equipment. If you can't get across the canals fast, Cold Start is Dead Start. The Lahat is a decent anti-helicopter weapon v the Cobra if the optics are upgraded. But aside from that given the bridging equipment India has now the T-90 being lighter can be gotten across faster and at more points.
Unless India suddenly decides to invest in the tail behind the Arjuns tooth, its a worthless waste of money.
sayareakd
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Even now it is very good tank, just seen it my self last year, even manage to measure some of the armour and compaire it with other T series tank. Gun is good and so it LAHAT, done lot of research my self.
I cant say much, what they have got inside, but from the protection part and what they got in terms of firepower, they are Ok, but not against ARjun tank. AL Khalids armour is not that good. DRDO is working on increasing the velocity of gun. I think it can take out Al Khalids.
Arjun has FLIR system, which is modern, it has BMS and that system is not avaliable on T 90 or any other version of T series with IA, as far as training of three men crew is concern, it appears that you are confusing the Arjun with IA's training, when ARjun, will be inducted method of training will be change.
I dont think you are at all aware about the investment gone into the Arjun and the factory they setup, CAG will hang govt if that happens. As far as engine is concern, local engine will be produce by the private company provided sufficent orders are recieved by IA, which is not coming, its suspension is so good that IA want it on FMBT. BMS of next generation is ofcouse needed.
Those things are planned and most of them are already implemented, but IA (DGMF) is creating trouble, with the obvious preferance for T series of tanks.
Actually if you look at the requirement of IA which is more then 3800 tanks, Arjun or T90 alone cannot done that role, what we need is combination of both. We need light as well as heavy tank for IA.
I dont agree with you, Arjun tank is so good that it can withstand direct hit from point blank range, whereas T 90 S can be easily penetrated and once that happen Crew is history.
Arjun is made to withstand punishment and is made keeping in mind crew safty, where as T90S is based on number doctrine of Second world war.
sayareakd
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Problem is most of the officers of IA has not seen Arjun tank, they learn every think on T series tank that is why they are confident with T series tank, whereas ARjun tank just changed the rule of games as far as IA's doctrine is concern.
We have to understand that ARjun is our home grown tank which has been extensively tested and re tested in Indian conditions, we can make changes on ARjun in shortest possible time, for T series we have to send it back or ask for Russia.
Techonlogy is changing fast and we will see more of urban conflect in future where T series of tank are sitting ducks, since modern Anti tank weapons can take those out easily, where as Arjun tank, with some help from Israel will make them a true MBT for modern warfar.
Question is mobility against protection therefore i strongly think that Both Arjun and T 90S will find place in IA.
We have to understand that ARjun is our home grown tank which has been extensively tested and re tested in Indian conditions, we can make changes on ARjun in shortest possible time, for T series we have to send it back or ask for Russia.
Techonlogy is changing fast and we will see more of urban conflect in future where T series of tank are sitting ducks, since modern Anti tank weapons can take those out easily, where as Arjun tank, with some help from Israel will make them a true MBT for modern warfar.
Question is mobility against protection therefore i strongly think that Both Arjun and T 90S will find place in IA.
