Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

[Enquirer]

What design and development?

FRCV is an Army requirement, not a DRDO project.

Am I missing something? Did DRDO announce a new product for FRCV?

Well, you're missing the context!

The question was regarding the quantity of Arjun Mk2 orders - which I said will depend on how soon IA/DRDO thinks FRCV can be realized. If it's a pipe dream, then more Arjun Mk2 will be ordered (as T72s retire), if FRCV appears to be doable in a decades time, then Arjun Mk2 orders will be limited.

 

[Adioz]

If it's a pipe dream, then more Arjun Mk2 will be ordered

I am inclined to think otherwise. If FRCV gets delayed, IA is more likely to buy more T-90MS to replace the T-72 rather than order more Arjun Mk-II.

Unless Ambani pays the right people

 

[Enquirer]

I am inclined to think otherwise. If FRCV gets delayed, IA is more likely to buy more T-90MS to replace the T-72 rather than order more Arjun Mk-II.

Unless Ambani pays the right people

Nope.
T90s were negotiated decades ago at dirt cheap prices for a certain number of tanks. Ordering more than the contracted numbers will require 'new contract' - the old (dirt cheap) prices may not be applicable!
Also, if Arjun meets most of IA's requirements then it would be very hard to argue (politically & business wise) why Russian tanks are required.
There's enough swath of desert in Gujarat-Rajasthan combine that Arjun will out perform any other tank at! 248 tanks overall may not be sufficient to cover that entire stretch!

 

[binayak95]

IPR? No IPR, no rights to modify the tanks.

The gun barrel and armour tech comes from the tech developed for Arjun project. Domestic Kanchan armour and domestic smoothbore 125mm guns.

And yes, we dont own the IPR but that didnt stop us from making the titanium blades for Al31 engines on our own and not pay through our nose for the inefficient and expensive Russian blades.

What Russia doesnt know, wont hurt them.

 

[Pandeyji]

After this whole 50 tons & 20 sqdns I just hope that Congress doesn't come into power in 2019 warna aisi batti lagayenge in projects ki rona aa jayega. And yes if 50 tons news is true I would distribute 50 kgs of mithai this new year. Would update the same.:santa:

 

[Jackd]

If only they move forward on the FRCV front, then that would be something to rejoice.

 

[Adioz]

The gun barrel and armour tech comes from the tech developed for Arjun project. Domestic Kanchan armour and domestic smoothbore 125mm guns.

And yes, we dont own the IPR but that didnt stop us from making the titanium blades for Al31 engines on our own and not pay through our nose for the inefficient and expensive Russian blades.

What Russia doesnt know, wont hurt them.

If it was so easy, we would have been inducting Tank EX in numbers right now.
BTW, even if we increase the domestic content, we would still have to pay the Russians royalty for each tank we produce. And since both the extent of domestic content allowed and the amount of royalty are decided when the contract is signed, we would still be paying through our nose, domestic components notwithstanding.

T90s were negotiated decades ago at dirt cheap prices for a certain number of tanks. Ordering more than the contracted numbers will require 'new contract' - the old (dirt cheap) prices may not be applicable!

Did not stop the Army from securing a fresh supply of T-90MS.

Also, if Arjun meets most of IA's requirements then it would be very hard to argue (politically & business wise) why Russian tanks are required.
There's enough swath of desert in Gujarat-Rajasthan combine that Arjun will out perform any other tank at! 248 tanks overall may not be sufficient to cover that entire stretch!

That I agree with. Once Arjun Mk-II enters production, it will become difficult to justify buying T-90MS. I hope that is what happens in the end.

 

[Shaitan]

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[cyclops]

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Is that the new redesigned, weight optimised Arjun Mk2?
I see some changes on the turret.
Wasn't only the hull going to be reconfigured?

 

[Shaitan]

idk, wait and see.--------------------------------------

 

[Aman kumar]

Is that the new redesigned, weight optimised Arjun Mk2?
I see some changes on the turret.
Wasn't only the hull going to be reconfigured?

I think it's just a small scale model...

 

[Shaitan]

FSAPDS MARK 2=======================================

 

[bose]

When is Arjun Mark - II is going for production ?

Any info ?

 

[cyclops]

When is Arjun Mark - II is going for production ?

Any info ?

There's no hope for Arjun Mk2 unless IA orders 500-700 units of it.

 

[bose]

There's no hope for Arjun Mk2 unless IA orders 500-700 units of it.

But IA did give order for Arjun Mark - II ... some 124 of them ...

 

[cyclops]

But IA did give order for Arjun Mark - II ... some 124 of them ...

I understand that for some of us Indians it will be just enough that Arjun Mk2 is being inducted and IA probably is hoping for the same, to appease some of us, the vocal majority who are pressuring them about accepting indigenous products.
IA hopes to do this by inducting just a small numbers of Arjun tanks while simultaneously buying Russian tanks in the 1000s.

But that is not enough, we need to match and then surpass the numbers of Russian tanks in IA's inventory, with Arjuns.

And for the above purpose 124 is not a good enough number.
The same issues that plagued the Arjun Mk1 will again beset Arjun Mk2.

We all know what happened a few years ago.
The whole of the Arjun fleet was shut down for some time because of the non availability of spares.
As DRDO could not make a facility for the same and had to import the said spares for integration.

A tank unit does not exist in a vaccum, it needs test facilities for subsystems and structure, quality assurance facilities, spares facilities, overhaul facilities, facilities for the production of other armored vehicles based on the tank, etc and initially, these actually end up costing equal if not more than production of the tank itself.
And all of these production units cannot be sustained with just a measly order of 124.

One cannot expect DRDO to incur a loss by setting up all the above facilities and also hire 100s of engineers, technicians, etc and then the said facilities not be utilized and the workers not be employed because of the small order.
Arjuns will be costly and less self sustainable if IA doesn't choose to buy them in large numbers.
However if IA orders large numbers of the Arjun Mk2, eventually the economy of scale can be achieved, the tanks and all the services associated with it will become cheaper, the domestic military industrial capacity will improve and increase, and maybe we can even develop Arjun Mk3, like how the Israelis did it with their Merkava.

 

[sam29]

Hi
Any pics of new Arjun mk1A

 

[Bleh]

Hi
Any pics of new Arjun mk1A

Nope, nada...No news on Mark 1A nor Mark 2!

 

[WolfPack86]

India begins trials of new upgraded Arjun Mark 1A

An upgraded version of the Arjun tanks that has better firing and mobility is presently undergoing validation trials. ‘Arjun Mark 1A’ was being validated at trials, the Parliament was informed this week. This was the first official confirmation and the ‘Mark 1A’ will be an a additional version of the tank till ‘Mark 2’ version, which is somewhat lighter in weight, is readied, okayed and accepted.

Sources said it was a significant development as it showed that the Ministry of Defence was ready to keep on improving the tank, be it the addition of more power or reducing its weight.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and the Indian Army had, in the first half of this year, agreed on accepting the new version. In all, the Army is looking to have 118 pieces. A total of 93 modifications have been done over the first version of Arjun, 124 of which were inducted in 2010-11.

Sources said the Army was okay with the tank, but wanted it to be lighter than its present weight of 68 tonne. Most modern European tanks are of the same weight and tank-transporters (specialised trucks) for Arjun are available to ferry it.

The ‘Mark 2’ will have to be lighter by some 3 tonne and be in the range of 65 tonne. This may require some modification in the hull of the tank for the final contours to emerge.

As part of the arrangement with the Army, the DRDO has promised to set up a system to maintain the Arjuns within India. It will be an annual maintenance contract with the Bharat Earth Movers Limited as a possible agency.

The tanks, as part of the trials, had already done some 4,000 km of run and only the upgrades were being tested now, said sources.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamAMCA/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

[bhramos]

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