Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

Pandora

New Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
985
Likes
2,196
Country flag
I am sure he means 120mm rifled and not smooth-bore, Further shedding 8-10 tons means lower tanks efficiency by reducing its ammo carry capacity and further reducing Armour cavity and thickness of various plates ..

Changing steel wheels by aluminum allow will shed nearly a ton weight is a gud approach ..
There is lot of extra flap in turret itself Which weigh more than 25T ( Not sure) if not less.When Comparing to Other contemporary tanks(M1 abrham or Merkava) in same segment.It is 5 T over-weight.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
Arjun is design as per Indian requirements, Those extra space may not seems useful but essential for its evolution, Its intend for installing new technologies in future without changing much of tank design or upgrades in existing models, For example installing rotatory auto loader which Ukranian are offering and this can be installed without any major changes to exsiiting design unlike in other tanks in IA ..

Arjun turret is 20tons in weight without ERA, Which is lower or same to most western tanks right now..

There is lot of extra flap in turret itself Which weigh more than 25T ( Not sure) if not less.When Comparing to Other contemporary tanks(M1 abrham or Merkava) in same segment.It is 5 T over-weight.
 

WolfPack86

New Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
10,571
Likes
16,993
Country flag
Arjun Mk.2 MBT Now A Firm Reality

Contrary to widespread speculation, the Indian Army (IA) has not forsaken or given up on the Arjun Mk.2 main battle tank (MBT). Instead, for the past four years, the IA’s Directorate General of Mechanised Warfare has been overseeing a collective developmental effort involving the DRDO, and the MoD-owned defence public-sector undertakings and private-sector OEMs that will in the near future result in a fully-loaded 60-tonne MBT armed with a 120mm smoothbore cannon while retaining the existing 1,400hp powerpack.

Under the supervision and guidance of the DRDO’s Avadi-based Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE), and with the help of the MoD’s Directorate General of Quality Assurance (DGQA) and the IA’s Corps of Electronics & Mechanical Engineers (EME), a number of key decisions have been to achieve a weight reduction of 8 tonnes in the existing design of the 68-tonne Arjun Mk.1A MBTs, 118 of which are now in delivery.

For starters, the baseline hull of the Arjun Mk.2 will no longer be built with imported low-carbon, nickel-chromium-molybdenum rolled homogeneous armor (RHA) steel, but with lighter high-nitrogen steel (HNS) whose production technology has been mastered by the DRDO’s Hyderabad-based Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory(DMRL) and has been transferred to Jindal Stainless Steel Ltd (Hisar). HNS will also be used by TATA Motors Ltd for producing the 83 Kestrel 8 x 8 armoured personnel carriers already on order.

HNS is produced in a four-step process: primary melting of the steel can carried out in either induction furnace or electric arc furnace by using appropriate raw materials; secondary melting can be carryout in by nitrogen gas-purging in to the metal; under ladle refining, ferro-nitrates are added to molten metal for obtaining final nitrogen content in the alloy if it is required and hot-rolling is carried out in a single heat, without reheating. Minimum percentage of reduction should not be less than 75% of the slab thickness. To be placed in strategic locations in both the hull and turret will be the DRDO-developed ‘Kanchan’ ceramics-basedcomposite laminate armour tiles as well as indigenously-built explosive reactive armour (ERA) tiles developed by the DRDO’s High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL) on the front and sides of the hull and turret sections.

To ensure optimal weight budgeting during the production engineering stage, the CVRDE has contracted Dynamatic Technologies Ltd, which specialises in complex, five-axis robotic machining, as well as in converting two-dimension paper blueprints into three-dimension computer model that are more precise, and have tighter tolerances. Digitising the drawings creates a baseline configuration for greater accuracy. This in turn streamlines manufacturing, since conventionalmanufacturing based on two-dimensional paper blueprints tend to leave tiny gaps between the different components of an assembly that were filled with shims, leading to increased weight. But by digitising blueprints, those tiny gaps can be entirely eliminated during the manufacturing process.

Under another weight-reduction exercise, the CVRDE has contracted the Alicon Group for building all-aluminium road-wheels and ventilators for not only the Arjun Mk.2, but also for the IA’s existing upgraded T-72CIA medium tanks. They will replace the all-steel road-wheels built bySundaram Industries for the Arjun Mk.1A. Similarly, TATA Power SED has been contracted for producing all-electric turret stabilisation/traverse systems, in place of the existing electro-hydraulic system.

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/...d-max=2018-01-01T00:00:00+05:30&max-results=8
 

Bornubus

Chodi Bhakt & BJPig Hunter
New Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
7,494
Likes
17,197
They have sorted out the ATGM issue (Smoke) from Mk 1 by CLGM but what about the Ammo. The older Ammo has piss poor Penetration roughly comparable with 80s era Russian Tank Ammo.


They need to make better round with bigger penetrator Rod.
 

Hemu Vikram Aditya

New Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
1,107
Likes
969
Country flag
They have sorted out the ATGM issue (Smoke) from Mk 1 by CLGM but what about the Ammo. The older Ammo has piss poor Penetration roughly comparable with 80s era Russian Tank Ammo.


They need to make better round with bigger penetrator Rod.
Is the Clgm Bhartian Or Israeli
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041




India Army`s tank FSAPDS ammunition penetration is around +500mm, Regardless its imported or Indian ( Comparable to M829 @1985 )

They are now doing R&D for +600mm, As there are no country is offering its top end or even 90s FSAPDS to India ..

They have sorted out the ATGM issue (Smoke) from Mk 1 by CLGM but what about the Ammo. The older Ammo has piss poor Penetration roughly comparable with 80s era Russian Tank Ammo.


They need to make better round with bigger penetrator Rod.
 

BrutusMarcus

New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
13
Likes
21
They're ranting about the same issue ever since thr Arjun first went on trials; road network load rating, railway boggles and brigde width, etc, etc. I guess they had enough time to strengthen the network if they had the will to do so. Or maybe I should more aptly have said, the intention to do so.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
However, Where problem exist with MK2 portability with respect to mentioned strategic thrust areas, This problem is also applicable for any vehicle under 40tons ..

In simple words, No tanks except BMP-2 can work on those specific hinted terrains ..
 

pringles

New Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
124
Likes
306
However, Where problem exist with MK2 portability with respect to mentioned strategic thrust areas, This problem is also applicable for any vehicle under 40tons ..

In simple words, No tanks except BMP-2 can work on those specific hinted terrains ..
They will have to build up the infrastructure for at least 5X the actual thrust areas, to conceal the actual thrust areas.
 

Shaitan

Zandu Balm all day
New Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
4,654
Likes
8,370
Country flag
Asper Gupta, the latest fsapds achieved 600mm+ penetration against RHA. They are trying to achieve 650mm+. Rifle bore is being dumped, because the HESH round is being replaced with new thermobaric and penetration timed delay rounds.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
Jindal Steel to make high nitrogen steel for DRDO

he Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Jindal Stainless (Hisar) Limited (JSHL) on Wednesday inked a licence deal for manufacturing High Nitrogen Steel for armour applications.

The agreement was signed in the presence of Minister of State for Defence Subhash Bhamre and DRDO Chairman S. Christopher.

Calling the development of the specific kind of metal, an outstanding achievement, Bhamre said: "I am glad that DMRL (Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory) has given a very important and strategic material -- high nitrogen steel."

"I also congratulate the Jindal Stainless Steel for initiating to partner with the DRDO in their concerted efforts to optimise lab technique versus industry scale production," he added.



The DMRL is the lead DRDO laboratory for researching complex metals and materials required for modern sophisticated warfare weapons systems.

Speaking on the occasion, JSHL Vice Chairman Abhyuday Jindal said: "We are extremely pleased with this development and we believe HNS will immensely benefit the Indian Defence sector, going forward."

"The hard-work and perseverance of 10 years of JSHL with Ministry of Defence has culminated in a fantastic result for the country in line with Prime Minister Narendra Modi's vision of Make in India."

"It paves way for development of specific application of HNS in the context of the Army's ongoing and futuristic modernisation programmes," he said.

Informing on the status of the industralisation of the manufacturing of the HNS steel, Jindal said: "Jindal Steel has already optimised manufacturing process at industry level. We are at 'take-off' stage for further development and commercialisation of technology to product-specific applications."

HNS has potential application in all armoured vehicles, including Infantry Combat Vehicles (ICV), Main Battle Tank (MBT), Future Ready Combat Vehicles (FRCV), and Aviation and Naval systems.

--IANS

rs/in/dg

(This story has not been edited by Business Standard staff and is auto-generated from a syndicated feed.)
Source : http://www.business-standard.com/ar...h-nitrogen-steel-for-drdo-117030100560_1.html
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
Bonus picture : India`s own 1500hp tank engine, Its no longer in design phase but prototyping already ..



I have done little modification to original text as it said wrongly 1500kw tank engine ..
 

deepak ghanvatkar

New Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2017
Messages
72
Likes
25
What I have failed to understand is that if Arun II is so good why the army is not procuring it? Why do we still go for T-90? The order placed is so low that the foreign systems which can be indigenised by TOT are not manufactured locally because it is commercially not a commercially practical Idea. Arun was once a failed tank, till, black boxes were installed during trials, and conversation secretly taped... when the tapes came up, it, suddenly passed in flying colors... there was a story that some T-90 were procured without air-conditioning equipment to keep the purchase price low but then they were not able to function properly....

Also, the bloggers may be "deshbhakta" and hence may be liking the Idea of made in India or "swadeshi" like our freedom fighters... but bloggers cannot be so wrong....


All this may be true, or could be propaganda, but, the army generals are not idiots not to understand what blog guys understand, then why a different standard for made in India equipment?

the army cannot be gaddar to promote a foreign equipment, to make, India down! We had selected Bofors which failed in Rajastan field trial Sweden promise to correct it;we believed it and we purchased it, but such promises of OFB or some Indian entity are not considered why?

1) Either the product is really shoddy and the Indian entity cannot be beleived..


or

2) The procurement is so addicted to corruption that, no matter if the company owned by President of India manufactures it or who ever till bribes are not given Indian company will receive step-motherly treatment... and may be this is the reason why Modiji is bringing Indian private manufactures to defence arena ....

or

3) The corruption has blinded the procurement wing of what is right and what is wrong.....


God knows what is the truth but is something which cannot be digested by me....


We wanted Arjun tank to be the first tank, but best in the world, when we did not have any R&D expertise in Tanks, or tank Manufacture we were merely assembling Russian kits... So, In the process the tank got heavy and delayed which gave room for more imports...

Things seem so bad that actually we don't need an enemy, corruption (or wrong decision and politicisation of non-political decisions) are enough big and we seem to have nothing to fight it... note ban or whatever, corruption within Government is enough to defeat India without war... whom can we trust "Netas" who do first thing after win is to file incorrect expenditure account, or Government servant who are billionaires ... "if Rs100 is spent only Rs17 reach where it is suppose to reach" our late PM Rajiv Gandhi....God knows where Rs83 goes

So, if Arjun tank has to be procured without Bribes how difficult it would be? Its a great thing that some 200+ are procured .....


Sad

but still I wonder what is the truth..... I dream that all above possibilities(that I think and listed) are wrong and; I am wrong in thinking and, may be things are better than I think...


God Save India ....
 

Aditya Prakash

New Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2017
Messages
8
Likes
15
Bonus picture : India`s own 1500hp tank engine, Its no longer in design phase but prototyping already ..



I have done little modification to original text as it said wrongly 1500kw tank engine ..
1500kw may actually be correct as it is in reference to the engine test facility (dynamometer). 1500kw = 2010.7hp (@0.746kw/hp).

DRDO had earlier said that the actual target output of the engine would be 1800hp, so that it generates 1500hp even in the worst of heat conditions, even after associates derating. Therefore extra 300hp capability would naturally be required on the dynamometer as a factor of safety.
 

BrutusMarcus

New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
13
Likes
21
The distinction between the gross and net horsepower ratings is always factored in. Even the 1000hp re-powerplant of the T-72 actually produces a gross rating thats the equivalent of 1200 galloping marwardis. Though, whether the spec-sheet rates the engine power according to it's gross or net ratings differs from manufacturer to manufacture (either ways, net ratings are still quoted in most cases). Take the Ukrainian tank engines for instance, the Khirkiv Morozov (KMDB) 2stroke opposed piston 3TD, 5TD or the 6TD, and all of their sub-derivatives. Their spec sheet states the engine torque in Net Torque, while the work done figues are exactly the opposite, Gross Horsepower instead of Net Horsepower. Taking the spec sheet of all their engines literally as it is, and calculating the torque at the max gross horsepower levels, it shows that it actually makes more torque at that the max horsepower point than it does at the max torque levels. All of that doesn't make sense until you figure out they're only stating the net torque (actual torque made by the detuned engine), while the horsepower figures at gross ratings stands true.

Having said that, I can't help but wonder if there could possibly be another angle to this. I recall the DRDO, going back a few years, had informed in one of their circulars that they are pursuing a design for a hyperbar motor for the indigenous tank engine. Infact, that was something that gelled along rather well with the military's demand too; coupling a small jet-turbine (300-500hp worth), in parallel to the Arjuns motor, so that the turbine can add an extra burst of power as & when demanded during an emergency battle maneuver, with the turbine possibly doubling up as an APU when not needed (taking a page out of the Swedish Stridsvagn 103; coupling Rolls Royce 2-Stroke opposed piston motor to a 500hp turbine). In a Hyperbar design too, where the turbos need an external power sourse to spool the turbos and produce a boost that the engines exhaust energy alone wouldn't be able to produce all by itself, a jet turbine APU is used to spool the turbos, enabling the tank to use a much smaller engine to produce the same amount of power as a large one (atleast in theory, because the turbine takes up enough space to increase overall size back to that of as regular turbocharged motor producing a similar power rating). This setup has being experimented on by quite a few manufacturers, though as yet the Leclerc seems to be the only tank using such a motor. Though Hyperbar tank engines come with their own set of problems, but that's another story.

However, this engine above, developed by DRDO, doesn't seem like a Hyperbar, and also, given that this is their first attempt at making a tank motor, I wouldn't expect it to have any of those wacky technological leaps that the other experienced Western motor designers are experimenting with. Rather, I believe they're developing just a plain & simple 4 stroke V10 or V12 turbocharged & intercooled engine; reliable & easy to work on, and something that the tankers are already familiar with. On the same lines again, neither would I expect it to be a more compact package than the one one already doing duty in the Arjun. I assume it would be as humongous as the old MTU 830 series, if not larger (as far as still having the additional space to add a jet turbine and the coupling running gear goes)

My point is, what if they're trying to kill 2 birds with one stone; fulfilling the demand of the Army to add more power on demand, only that rather than coupling a 500hp jet turbine to a 1500hp motor, or use a turbine to power up the turbos of a hyperbar engine, they end up instead with a self-contained 2000hp motor to begin with. 2000 ponies made solely on piston power would demand less fuel that a piston engine coupled with a the inefficient jet turbine, not to talk of simpler logistics and better serviceability you get with the older concept.


Afterall, the very concept of a tank engine (& what makes it all the more difficult to design and develop compared to a similar sized industrial motor), is to use a simple, proven design without using a lot of complex technologies so that it's easy to work on in the field, using metallurgy thats already widely available, and yet make it as compact as possible and still squeeze out the maximum potential of the motor. This holds all the more importance in the Indian scenario because every time any sort of a border skirmish occurs, the Western world imposes all sorts of sanctions on us, where the dependence of a weapons platform, or it motor and it's constituent components, on scarce exotic metals (which usually have to be imported) and technologies would render the entire weapon useless. It's the very reason why they wanted to make am indigenous motor in the first place. It's also why the MTU units are as successful as they are. They reduced assorted engine components to a minimum, to the extent that the engine doesn't use any rubber components; rubber coolant tubes, or even have any sort of a head gasket. Moreover, even at this age, they're using the old school pre-combustion chamber head design in even the later MTU 870 & 880 series engines. By using parts like a unit injector and individual heads, they ensured one part fits all, thereby simplifying logistics.
 

captscooby81

New Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
Messages
7,371
Likes
27,670
Country flag
Big New Hurdle For India’s Arjun Battle Tank
Shiv AroorMar 13 2017 12 35 pm


India’s Arjun main battle tank, possibly the country’s longest and most trouble-ridden armament programme, has just hit the latest in a history of formidable hurdles. And it’s a big one. One that amplifies the programme’s inextricable quality as a faraway castle that will never be fully realised by its makers or embraced by its customer, a tragicomic meandering that began with a requirement, stupefyingly enough, right after India’s 1971 war with Pakistan. In the tech world, the Arjun would be veritably vaporware.

If you’ve tracked the Arjun tank’s journey, you know that the platform’s weight has been a key factor slowing its acceptance by the Indian Army. Now, over 100 Arjun Mk.I tanks are operational across two tank regiments in India’s western desert sector. The beefed up, improved Arjun Mk.II, of which the Indian Army officially ordered 118 in 2014, is currently going through the paces to prove the smorgasbord of capability upgrades and add-ons. But a new, yet familiar, flashpoint has now presented itself, providing the sharpest sense of deja vu for the team proving the tank. And it has just been detailed in an easy-to-miss report by India’s Standing Committee on Defence in the country’s Parliament.

The Indian Army wants the DRDO to fully redesign the Arjun Mk.II’s hull and turret structures and use newer materials to replace the conventional structure, in an effort to ‘achieve a reasonable reduction in weight, without removing any of the major improvements’. The Arjun Mk.II currently weighs 68.6 tons — a full six tons over the MK.I, owning entirely to the 73 improvements the Army demanded on the newer tank. The Army has stated, in no uncertain terms, that the 68.6 ton weight of the Arjun Mk.II is too much for ‘seamless application in semi-developed and developed sectors of the Western Front’. In other words, the Arjun Mk.II, the Army says, can’t be forward deployed beyond the deserts, in the event of active hostilities with Pakistan. But more on that a little later.

Livefist can confirm that on September 27 last year, the DRDO was left with no choice but to initiate an exercise to redesign the hull/turret structures on the Arjun Mk.II. At at meeting that included DRDO chief S. Christopher, the Army’s Deputy Chief for Policy & Systems and the Director General Mechanised Forces, the DRDO fought the recommendation, stating that ‘redesign of hull/turret including use of advanced armour material is not recommended considering the long development and validation cycle’. It was a painful blow — while the DRDO was hoping to accelerate trials in an effort to nudge the Indian Army into doubling its order for 118 Arjun Mk.II tanks had just been told even the existing ones weren’t really good enough for full operational use. The DRDO’s Combat Vehicles laboratory near Chennai has begun the weight reduction/redesign exercise, with an ambitious target of March 2018 to demonstrate a weight reduction of 3 tons. The DRDO will need to demonstrate each module separately to the Indian Army.

The story doesn’t really end there. In fact it gets more perplexing. While the DRDO gets busy trying to redesign the Arjun Mk.II’s hull/turret structures and use new materials, the Army has already written off the exercise. In fact, at the very same September 2016 meeting where the DRDO committed to a 3 ton weight reduction, the Army stated, ‘There are no major advantages from tactical and operational point of view with 65 t weight reduction also. It is felt that even weight reduction to 62 tons (equal to that of Arjun MBT Mk-I) may not provide any significant tactical/ operational advantages.’

In other words, the Army believes the weight reduction exercise is fundamentally useless. Worse, the Army projects that the ‘cycle time for 65 ton weight reductions of Arjun MBT Mk-II and validation will take about four to six years for successful acceptance by user after trials/procedures.’

The DRDO, which was hoping the Arjun tank had finally turned the corner, transforming an adversarial relationship with its main customer into one of comfort, has hit another stone wall with the Army. While insisting that the Arjun Mk.II has ‘exhibited the required performance in all aspects of agility, mobility and other operational/functional parameters in the desert and semi-desert terrains during various phases of user trials’ and that it is ‘confident that that Arjun Mk.II will have requisite agility, mobility and other operational/functional parameters in various developed and semi developed terrains also’, the DRDO is also wondering why the Army is averse to a proposal to operationally compare the Arjun Mk.II with the T-90 (a comparison that was conducted over a decade ago on the Mk.I). According to the DRDO, “As directed by Hon’ble RM (Defence Minister), DRDO requested Army for mobility comparative trials with the Arjun MBT Mk-II even with 68.6 t’ along with T-90 to prove its tactical and operational mobility aspects in all envisaged terrains (including developed and semi developed terrains) for its future employability. However, Army intimated that Arjun MBT Mk-II and T90 are of different class & weight classification and their deployment is as per assigned operational roles. Arjun MBT has operational employment restrictions to specific sectors (desert/semi desert) being heavy tank. Therefore, Army intimated that the conduct of comparative mobility trials is not required.”

The redesign exercise shackles the Arjun tank to its endless, looping development and proving cycle — one that it hasn’t been able to break out of for decades. Top sources in the Army say that while there is government pressure to endorse the Arjun tank as an Indian product, the Army doesn’t believe it makes sense to buy more of a tank that will be operationally restricted to the desert/semi-desert sectors of the west. A maximum of four or five Arjun regiments across variants is many as the Army believes it needs, given what the tank has been proven to be capable of. If the weight reduction exercise doesn’t work out, the Army takes delivery of those 118 Arjun Mk.IIs on schedule and will unlikely order any more. If it does work out, it remains to be seen if the Army will order more. The Arjun programme, as the DRDO has said before, is a dead loss if the Army doesn’t order more than 500 tanks in total. Right now, the numbers are nowhere close. Nothing is.
 

Alok Arya

New Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
145
Likes
168
Country flag
Big New Hurdle For India’s Arjun Battle Tank
Shiv AroorMar 13 2017 12 35 pm


India’s Arjun main battle tank, possibly the country’s longest and most trouble-ridden armament programme, has just hit the latest in a history of formidable hurdles. And it’s a big one. One that amplifies the programme’s inextricable quality as a faraway castle that will never be fully realised by its makers or embraced by its customer, a tragicomic meandering that began with a requirement, stupefyingly enough, right after India’s 1971 war with Pakistan. In the tech world, the Arjun would be veritably vaporware.

If you’ve tracked the Arjun tank’s journey, you know that the platform’s weight has been a key factor slowing its acceptance by the Indian Army. Now, over 100 Arjun Mk.I tanks are operational across two tank regiments in India’s western desert sector. The beefed up, improved Arjun Mk.II, of which the Indian Army officially ordered 118 in 2014, is currently going through the paces to prove the smorgasbord of capability upgrades and add-ons. But a new, yet familiar, flashpoint has now presented itself, providing the sharpest sense of deja vu for the team proving the tank. And it has just been detailed in an easy-to-miss report by India’s Standing Committee on Defence in the country’s Parliament.

The Indian Army wants the DRDO to fully redesign the Arjun Mk.II’s hull and turret structures and use newer materials to replace the conventional structure, in an effort to ‘achieve a reasonable reduction in weight, without removing any of the major improvements’. The Arjun Mk.II currently weighs 68.6 tons — a full six tons over the MK.I, owning entirely to the 73 improvements the Army demanded on the newer tank. The Army has stated, in no uncertain terms, that the 68.6 ton weight of the Arjun Mk.II is too much for ‘seamless application in semi-developed and developed sectors of the Western Front’. In other words, the Arjun Mk.II, the Army says, can’t be forward deployed beyond the deserts, in the event of active hostilities with Pakistan. But more on that a little later.

Livefist can confirm that on September 27 last year, the DRDO was left with no choice but to initiate an exercise to redesign the hull/turret structures on the Arjun Mk.II. At at meeting that included DRDO chief S. Christopher, the Army’s Deputy Chief for Policy & Systems and the Director General Mechanised Forces, the DRDO fought the recommendation, stating that ‘redesign of hull/turret including use of advanced armour material is not recommended considering the long development and validation cycle’. It was a painful blow — while the DRDO was hoping to accelerate trials in an effort to nudge the Indian Army into doubling its order for 118 Arjun Mk.II tanks had just been told even the existing ones weren’t really good enough for full operational use. The DRDO’s Combat Vehicles laboratory near Chennai has begun the weight reduction/redesign exercise, with an ambitious target of March 2018 to demonstrate a weight reduction of 3 tons. The DRDO will need to demonstrate each module separately to the Indian Army.

The story doesn’t really end there. In fact it gets more perplexing. While the DRDO gets busy trying to redesign the Arjun Mk.II’s hull/turret structures and use new materials, the Army has already written off the exercise. In fact, at the very same September 2016 meeting where the DRDO committed to a 3 ton weight reduction, the Army stated, ‘There are no major advantages from tactical and operational point of view with 65 t weight reduction also. It is felt that even weight reduction to 62 tons (equal to that of Arjun MBT Mk-I) may not provide any significant tactical/ operational advantages.’

In other words, the Army believes the weight reduction exercise is fundamentally useless. Worse, the Army projects that the ‘cycle time for 65 ton weight reductions of Arjun MBT Mk-II and validation will take about four to six years for successful acceptance by user after trials/procedures.’

The DRDO, which was hoping the Arjun tank had finally turned the corner, transforming an adversarial relationship with its main customer into one of comfort, has hit another stone wall with the Army. While insisting that the Arjun Mk.II has ‘exhibited the required performance in all aspects of agility, mobility and other operational/functional parameters in the desert and semi-desert terrains during various phases of user trials’ and that it is ‘confident that that Arjun Mk.II will have requisite agility, mobility and other operational/functional parameters in various developed and semi developed terrains also’, the DRDO is also wondering why the Army is averse to a proposal to operationally compare the Arjun Mk.II with the T-90 (a comparison that was conducted over a decade ago on the Mk.I). According to the DRDO, “As directed by Hon’ble RM (Defence Minister), DRDO requested Army for mobility comparative trials with the Arjun MBT Mk-II even with 68.6 t’ along with T-90 to prove its tactical and operational mobility aspects in all envisaged terrains (including developed and semi developed terrains) for its future employability. However, Army intimated that Arjun MBT Mk-II and T90 are of different class & weight classification and their deployment is as per assigned operational roles. Arjun MBT has operational employment restrictions to specific sectors (desert/semi desert) being heavy tank. Therefore, Army intimated that the conduct of comparative mobility trials is not required.”

The redesign exercise shackles the Arjun tank to its endless, looping development and proving cycle — one that it hasn’t been able to break out of for decades. Top sources in the Army say that while there is government pressure to endorse the Arjun tank as an Indian product, the Army doesn’t believe it makes sense to buy more of a tank that will be operationally restricted to the desert/semi-desert sectors of the west. A maximum of four or five Arjun regiments across variants is many as the Army believes it needs, given what the tank has been proven to be capable of. If the weight reduction exercise doesn’t work out, the Army takes delivery of those 118 Arjun Mk.IIs on schedule and will unlikely order any more. If it does work out, it remains to be seen if the Army will order more. The Arjun programme, as the DRDO has said before, is a dead loss if the Army doesn’t order more than 500 tanks in total. Right now, the numbers are nowhere close. Nothing is.

This article show unprofessional , immature and biased attitude of Indian reporters . Reporter is not aware of recent development of high nitrogen steel which can bring down the weight of Arjun mark 2 to 60 ton and further redegining of turret can shade another 2-3 ton .
 

Pandora

New Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
985
Likes
2,196
Country flag
Big New Hurdle For India’s Arjun Battle Tank
Shiv AroorMar 13 2017 12 35 pm


India’s Arjun main battle tank, possibly the country’s longest and most trouble-ridden armament programme, has just hit the latest in a history of formidable hurdles. And it’s a big one. One that amplifies the programme’s inextricable quality as a faraway castle that will never be fully realised by its makers or embraced by its customer, a tragicomic meandering that began with a requirement, stupefyingly enough, right after India’s 1971 war with Pakistan. In the tech world, the Arjun would be veritably vaporware.

If you’ve tracked the Arjun tank’s journey, you know that the platform’s weight has been a key factor slowing its acceptance by the Indian Army. Now, over 100 Arjun Mk.I tanks are operational across two tank regiments in India’s western desert sector. The beefed up, improved Arjun Mk.II, of which the Indian Army officially ordered 118 in 2014, is currently going through the paces to prove the smorgasbord of capability upgrades and add-ons. But a new, yet familiar, flashpoint has now presented itself, providing the sharpest sense of deja vu for the team proving the tank. And it has just been detailed in an easy-to-miss report by India’s Standing Committee on Defence in the country’s Parliament.

The Indian Army wants the DRDO to fully redesign the Arjun Mk.II’s hull and turret structures and use newer materials to replace the conventional structure, in an effort to ‘achieve a reasonable reduction in weight, without removing any of the major improvements’. The Arjun Mk.II currently weighs 68.6 tons — a full six tons over the MK.I, owning entirely to the 73 improvements the Army demanded on the newer tank. The Army has stated, in no uncertain terms, that the 68.6 ton weight of the Arjun Mk.II is too much for ‘seamless application in semi-developed and developed sectors of the Western Front’. In other words, the Arjun Mk.II, the Army says, can’t be forward deployed beyond the deserts, in the event of active hostilities with Pakistan. But more on that a little later.

Livefist can confirm that on September 27 last year, the DRDO was left with no choice but to initiate an exercise to redesign the hull/turret structures on the Arjun Mk.II. At at meeting that included DRDO chief S. Christopher, the Army’s Deputy Chief for Policy & Systems and the Director General Mechanised Forces, the DRDO fought the recommendation, stating that ‘redesign of hull/turret including use of advanced armour material is not recommended considering the long development and validation cycle’. It was a painful blow — while the DRDO was hoping to accelerate trials in an effort to nudge the Indian Army into doubling its order for 118 Arjun Mk.II tanks had just been told even the existing ones weren’t really good enough for full operational use. The DRDO’s Combat Vehicles laboratory near Chennai has begun the weight reduction/redesign exercise, with an ambitious target of March 2018 to demonstrate a weight reduction of 3 tons. The DRDO will need to demonstrate each module separately to the Indian Army.

The story doesn’t really end there. In fact it gets more perplexing. While the DRDO gets busy trying to redesign the Arjun Mk.II’s hull/turret structures and use new materials, the Army has already written off the exercise. In fact, at the very same September 2016 meeting where the DRDO committed to a 3 ton weight reduction, the Army stated, ‘There are no major advantages from tactical and operational point of view with 65 t weight reduction also. It is felt that even weight reduction to 62 tons (equal to that of Arjun MBT Mk-I) may not provide any significant tactical/ operational advantages.’

In other words, the Army believes the weight reduction exercise is fundamentally useless. Worse, the Army projects that the ‘cycle time for 65 ton weight reductions of Arjun MBT Mk-II and validation will take about four to six years for successful acceptance by user after trials/procedures.’

The DRDO, which was hoping the Arjun tank had finally turned the corner, transforming an adversarial relationship with its main customer into one of comfort, has hit another stone wall with the Army. While insisting that the Arjun Mk.II has ‘exhibited the required performance in all aspects of agility, mobility and other operational/functional parameters in the desert and semi-desert terrains during various phases of user trials’ and that it is ‘confident that that Arjun Mk.II will have requisite agility, mobility and other operational/functional parameters in various developed and semi developed terrains also’, the DRDO is also wondering why the Army is averse to a proposal to operationally compare the Arjun Mk.II with the T-90 (a comparison that was conducted over a decade ago on the Mk.I). According to the DRDO, “As directed by Hon’ble RM (Defence Minister), DRDO requested Army for mobility comparative trials with the Arjun MBT Mk-II even with 68.6 t’ along with T-90 to prove its tactical and operational mobility aspects in all envisaged terrains (including developed and semi developed terrains) for its future employability. However, Army intimated that Arjun MBT Mk-II and T90 are of different class & weight classification and their deployment is as per assigned operational roles. Arjun MBT has operational employment restrictions to specific sectors (desert/semi desert) being heavy tank. Therefore, Army intimated that the conduct of comparative mobility trials is not required.”

The redesign exercise shackles the Arjun tank to its endless, looping development and proving cycle — one that it hasn’t been able to break out of for decades. Top sources in the Army say that while there is government pressure to endorse the Arjun tank as an Indian product, the Army doesn’t believe it makes sense to buy more of a tank that will be operationally restricted to the desert/semi-desert sectors of the west. A maximum of four or five Arjun regiments across variants is many as the Army believes it needs, given what the tank has been proven to be capable of. If the weight reduction exercise doesn’t work out, the Army takes delivery of those 118 Arjun Mk.IIs on schedule and will unlikely order any more. If it does work out, it remains to be seen if the Army will order more. The Arjun programme, as the DRDO has said before, is a dead loss if the Army doesn’t order more than 500 tanks in total. Right now, the numbers are nowhere close. Nothing is.
@Kunal Biswas This is what am talking about a month back that Army Already made up their mind that It doesn't want Arjun......Reason :- Well I can give You some good paanwala insights but not in public form .PM me.
 

Articles

Top