Ancestry Of Jats

[Razor]

Well just as I have mentioned in another thread that even if AIT is true it should not be promoted. I personally believe in AMT/AIT. However I do not want any individual to use this knowledge to further divide our society.

AIT/AMT only divides our society along ethnic/caste lines. For any nation to be great it must instill a sense of common ethnicity/nationality among its citizens. Some amount of divergence from this concept of common nationality may be tolerated. If we look at the present day examples of the citizens of USA and Russia, we see they all claim to be Americans and Russians irrespective of their race/ethnicity. India too should follow suite.

AIT aims at destroying our sense of common nationality as Indians. Thus AIT only helps those who want to divide us up. For the sake of unity AIT should not be promoted and instead we should be reminded that we all came from Africa.

Hmm.

That's a bit disingenuous, don't you think, when our national motto is "satyameva jayate" ???

Some people find it hard to digest that a sophisticated culture(s) like that of india may have developed in part due to contribution from nomadic peoples.

 

[Mad Indian]

I wonder why you did not mention China. They were an "advanced culture", they were receptive to buddhist ideas.

China was an inferiority culture with respect to India at that time. It got culture from India right? Perfectly consistent with my claim that culture flows from high culture to low culture.

I already told you why I'm not able to make up my mind, because there are no hard and fast rules here. It could go either way (not enough evidence.)
And while we are at it, post all the points of your theory (OIT or whatever else it) complete with patterns of migrations, their dates, language transmission models, so on and so forth.
Please also include details about how the ANI/ASI studies are integrated into your theory. Go ahead, make up your mind.

Dude the evidence us littered all over this thread. I don't want to write an entire article on it. Just Google Aryan invasion theory debunked and you will see Stephen Knapp (yes he is not an Indian) articles on why AIT is crap.

A kills B and buries body in C's courtyard; doesn't mean that the non-somersault version of C killed B, is true.
When investigating something all possibilities should be considered.

Yes. But what does that have to do with anything? This is a nonsequitor logic.

 

[pmaitra]

A kills B and buries body in C's courtyard; doesn't mean that the non-somersault version of C killed B, is true.
When investigating something all possibilities should be considered.

If you read "God sees the Truth, but waits," by Leo Tolstoy, you will see that:
A = Makar Semyonich.
B = Some victim who was murdered at an inn.
C = Ivan Dmitrich Aksyonov
courtyard = Aksyonov's bag.

If you read the story, you will see that the story actually supports the last statement of the part of your post that I have quoted.

I already mentioned earlier that "aryans" here does NOT refer to germanic people. Central Asia is not in Germany or Europe.
Half your posts have some europe this, europe that. You really need to get this europe fascination out of your head for a while.

Oh, have mercy on our dear @Mad Indian. If you take away that strawman (Europe, blonde, blue eyes), he really wouldn't be left with much to argue against. :biggrin2:

Dude the evidence us littered all over this thread. I don't want to write an entire article on it. Just Google Aryan invasion theory debunked and you will see Stephen Knapp (yes he is not an Indian) articles on why AIT is crap.

If you look for something specific, I am sure you will find it. If you look for "proof" that creationism is "true," and that evolution have been "debunked," you will find that too.

If you are already biasing your search, then your search results are not really tenable.

 

[nimo_cn]

China was an inferiority culture with respect to India at that time. It got culture from India right? Perfectly consistent with my claim that culture flows from high culture to low culture.


Dude the evidence us littered all over this thread. I don't want to write an entire article on it. Just Google Aryan invasion theory debunked and you will see Stephen Knapp (yes he is not an Indian) articles on why AIT is crap.

Yes. But what does that have to do with anything? This is a nonsequitor logic.

you got be kidding me, India was a superior culture back then?

without written scripts by Chinese monks which documented the history of India in details, a large part of India's past would have buried on the ground, what kind of superior culture is that?

来自我的 HUAWEI P7-L07 上的 Tapatalk

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

you got be kidding me, India was a superior culture back then?

without written scripts by Chinese monks which documented the history of India in details, a large part of India's past would have buried on the ground, what kind of superior culture is that?

来自我的 HUAWEI P7-L07 上的 Tapatalk

Why did your ancestors come to India to record stuff? Because interesting ideas came from India and they wanted to study it. Anyway, what they wrote should be enough to open your eyes.

 

[Khagesh]

Why did your ancestors come to India to record stuff? Because interesting ideas came from India and they wanted to study it. Anyway, what they wrote should be enough to open your eyes.

But more seriously, lady there is a part of culture and learning, that is only heard and remembered in our country. Documentation is of no help in that regard. And this was most likely was a deliberately chosen path to gathering, deploying, transmitting and inculcating knowledge and culture. Some of these methods are used in other countries too including your own.

In any case let us just bury it here. The debate around culture on this thread centres around 'direction of adoption of culture' and not about whether Indian culture was superior or not.

 

[Mad Indian]

you got be kidding me, India was a superior culture back then?

without written scripts by Chinese monks which documented the history of India in details, a large part of India's past would have buried on the ground, what kind of superior culture is that?

来自我的 HUAWEI P7-L07 上的 Tapatalk

How much of Chinese culture and religion got adopted by India vs the opposite? Did they forget to teach that Buddhism was Indian in origin in you Chicom class? Chinese owe their culture to India no matter how much your CCP tries to deny it. You are welcome to appreciate it.

And seriously Chinese monks? You are talking about the Chinese Buddhist monks who came to study Indian philosophies and religion right? What were you saying about Chinese monk contribution to Indian culture again?

 

[Mad Indian]

But more seriously, lady there is a part of culture and learning, that is only heard and remembered in our country. Documentation is of no help in that regard. And this was most likely was a deliberately chosen path to gathering, deploying, transmitting and inculcating knowledge and culture. Some of these methods are used in other countries too including your own.

In any case let us just bury it here. The debate around culture on this thread centres around 'direction of adoption of culture' and not about whether Indian culture was superior or not.

Without conquest or political ptronage- superior culture gets adopted by inferior ones . No exceptions

 

[Mad Indian]

Oh, have mercy on our dear @Mad Indian. If you take away that strawman (Europe, blonde, blue eyes), he really wouldn't be left with much to argue against.

Stop talking crap. AIT is what it is. Just because you have no clue as to what you are talking about does not mean everyone here is equally dumb

 

[Mad Indian]

Some people find it hard to digest that a sophisticated culture(s) like that of india may have developed in part due to contribution from nomadic peoples.

Some people have severe identity crisis to the point of claiming next door neighbour as their fathers instead of their own fathers, despite evidence and logic to the contrary

 

[Mad Indian]

Besides blonde hair and blue eyes, if I'm not mistaken, are recessive traits, right?
So they can go on without being expressed for a while?

Again this is why you should leave genetics to people who know it. Even if they are recessive, few people would still express it- remember how 25% of the plants still need small despite being recessive? That's what we will see here- few people with blue eyes and blond hairs, not necessarily both will be present. Where are they?

And recessive does not mean they will disappear from genepool. Just that their phenotype won't be expressed as often. Learn about hardy wienburg equilibrium

Again dude, just because you can't understand the science does not make it wrong. And as I said, you guys sound like dumb creationists who doubt evolution becuase they are too dumb to understand evolution

 

[Mad Indian]

Talking about KL.
What about malayalam?
Malayalam vocabulary used to be quite similar to tamil and it was called malayala mozhi. After an influx of brahmins, and a few centuries later it is called malayala bhasha and about 70% of the vocabulary is either of sanskrit origin or exactly the same as sanskrit.

What nonsense is this? Malayalam remained as Tamil as late as 9thcentury AD under Cheras(AFAIK). How does Brahmin or Aryan migration even come here? Its evolution into Malayalam is a quite slow process, and of course this is in tune with Indigenous origin of Indian languages, which ,might all have diverged from Sanskrit at some point.

 

[Mad Indian]

You say for eg: That a part of A separates and forms B. And then you say that a mutation has occurred in A.
Can a genetic mutation not happen in B too (and thereby increase its variations) at the same time that it happened in A? Why or why not?

Thats like asking why only monkey to man evolution happened and not monkey to man!

 

[Mad Indian]

I already mentioned earlier that "aryans" here does NOT refer to germanic people. Central Asia is not in Germany or Europe.
Half your posts have some europe this, europe that. You really need to get this europe fascination out of your head for a while.

Stop talking nonsense.

The original AIT was Germans/Aryans coming from Europe via central asia into India and forming Hinduism and vedas and became the upper castes. Just because you dont know what you are talking about does not make everyone equally dumb.

But if it makes it any better for you, North Indians and the upper castes look closer to Arabs than Tamils and Lower castes. So you guys are proud descendants of Arabs , if that makes you all happy and proud. Be proud of it

Also correct me if I'm not wrong, the researches haven't fully established the causes of variations in human hair and eye colors, right?
I mean I have seen some people who as kids had light brown hair which later changed to black as they grew up. Yes melanin increase but why/how? Maybe testosterone. Dunno/.

Where did you get this complete nonsense?

 

[pmaitra]

Stop talking crap. AIT is what it is. Just because you have no clue as to what you are talking about does not mean everyone here is equally dumb

Let's see who is clueless.

Stop talking nonsense.

The original AIT was Germans/Aryans coming from Europe via central asia into India and forming Hinduism and vedas and became the upper castes. Just because you dont know what you are talking about does not make everyone equally dumb.

But if it makes it any better for you, North Indians and the upper castes look closer to Arabs than Tamils and Lower castes. So you guys are proud descendants of Arabs , if that makes you all happy and proud. Be proud of it




Where did you get this complete nonsense?

Name the historian and the research work that claims what I have highlighted in your post.

The AIT/AMT has many versions. There is migration out of northern Caspian coast (present day Russia), migration out of Andronovo Culture (former Soviet Central Asia), migration out of near East (present day Syria), etc.. I am not aware of any AIT/AMT that talks about migration out of Germany. Please do inform.

Here are the various maps:




And, here is the map that shows the origin of the words "Aryan," from a place called "Aria," which is in Iran. Iran means the land of Aryans, and Iran-Shahr is also an ancient location closer to India than to Germany.



Who is clueless now?

 

[Screambowl]

Lol, what kind of thread is this? Jatta ka chora thread?



The theory of Aryan invasion is flawed!!

The Vedas mention many Sages in India, most importantly the saptarishis(eg: Bharadwaj, Vishvamitra, Vasisht, Kashyappa, etc) . And none of them are born in Europe or Central Asia.

All of them were product of India.

 

[Simple_Guy]

Here are the various maps

Unless the mythical aryans made these maps, they have no value.

 

[Screambowl]

Stop talking nonsense.

The original AIT was Germans/Aryans coming from Europe via central asia into India and forming Hinduism and vedas and became the upper castes. Just because you dont know what you are talking about does not make everyone equally dumb.

But if it makes it any better for you, North Indians and the upper castes look closer to Arabs than Tamils and Lower castes. So you guys are proud descendants of Arabs , if that makes you all happy and proud. Be proud of it




Where did you get this complete nonsense?

LOL That was a sarcasm
Hahaha, amazingly nice one

 

[pmaitra]

Unless the mythical aryans made these maps, they have no value.

They have just about the same value as ANI/ASI Theory or Out of India Theory.

BTW, mythical people don't exist in real life. Whoever created these maps, were/are real people.

 

[pmaitra]

Lol, what kind of thread is this? Jatta ka chora thread?



The theory of Aryan invasion is flawed!!

The Vedas mention many Sages in India, most importantly the saptarishis(eg: Bharadwaj, Vishvamitra, Vasisht, Kashyappa, etc) . And none of them are born in Europe or Central Asia.

All of them were product of India.

I don't get it.

Many sages were not born in Europe or Central Asia, and that proves what? Is it possible that these sages had some of their ancestors from Central Asia?

Akbar was born in India. Does that prove that none of his ancestors were from Central Asia?
Nikki Haley was born in America. Does that prove that none of her ancestors are from India?