AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Tshering22]

I get geopolitics
But if we have flirted with USA buy acquiring Globemasters posideons engines for Tejas c130 and chinnoks and others ....why not F35 ...
RIGHT NOW we are outnumbered and outgunned
We need F35 now even forty planes will make Plaaf shit their pantsx
We can't be naked for 15 years Plaaf will be hitting sixth gen by then
And god help us if Pak follow up J10 with J31

The F-35 is an offensive asset and it is never a good idea to give Americans the direct control of offensive platforms. There are other reasons as well which we can only estimate based off public information:

• The lead time for F-35s is around 7+ years to free up as around 6 countries ordered it between 2022 and now apart from the pending orders. Poland, Germany, Finland, Romania (finalizing it) and Sweden (rumoured) are leading the race.
• There is no ToT coming to us; spending that much money & not having any form of control is silly.
• You can kiss the Indian strategic autonomy goodbye with the F-35. We are at a geopolitical stage where our rise is seen as a threat to the bipolar world order by the Americans as well as the Chinese. US wants to make India another political version of Japan/Philippines and that is not what we want.
• Transport aircraft are low-value strategic assets despite their importance on troop logistics. Frontline fighters? There the crème de la creme.
  
  So yea, we would rather wait a bit longer and have our own strategic platforms than to panic and buy something that relegates us to another “has-been” power before even reaching the status of a superpower.

 

[Satish Sharma]

The F-35 is an offensive asset and it is never a good idea to give Americans the direct control of offensive platforms. There are other reasons as well which we can only estimate based off public information:

• The lead time for F-35s is around 7+ years to free up as around 6 countries ordered it between 2022 and now apart from the pending orders. Poland, Germany, Finland, Romania (finalizing it) and Sweden (rumoured) are leading the race.
• There is no ToT coming to us; spending that much money & not having any form of control is silly.
• You can kiss the Indian strategic autonomy goodbye with the F-35. We are at a geopolitical stage where our rise is seen as a threat to the bipolar world order by the Americans as well as the Chinese. US wants to make India another political version of Japan/Philippines and that is not what we want.
• Transport aircraft are low-value strategic assets despite their importance on troop logistics. Frontline fighters? There the crème de la creme.
  
  So yea, we would rather wait a bit longer and have our own strategic platforms than to panic and buy something that relegates us to another “has-been” power before even reaching the status of a superpower.

I heard f35 requires codes to operate everyday which usa supplies operators only uk can generate its own code after usa

 

[Tejbrahmastra]

Unrelated to the thread, Koreans are on the roll!!

 

[rohit b3]

Unrelated to the thread, Koreans are on the roll!!

First flight in 2022 and mass production by 2024. Yeah, no. How much ever we curse our Indian projects for delays, a 2 year trial programme simple does not add up. Not even for countries with a mature aerospace industry like US or Russia.

 

[mokoman]

First flight in 2022 and mass production by 2024. Yeah, no. How much ever we curse our Indian projects for delays, a 2 year trial programme simple does not add up. Not even for countries with a mature aerospace industry like US or Russia.

40 jets this year with just 178 million

maybe its just 3 jets .

 

[Haldilal]

Unrelated to the thread, Koreans are on the roll!!

First flight in 2022 and mass production by 2024. Yeah, no. How much ever we curse our Indian projects for delays, a 2 year trial programme simple does not add up. Not even for countries with a mature aerospace industry like US or Russia.

40 jets this year with just 178 million

maybe its just 3 jets .

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[raju1982]

Unrelated to the thread, Koreans are on the roll!!

Have been saying this. DRDO, HAL and MoD babus are making mockery of this. The way AMCA project is handled, Indian Air Force will suffer big set backs against PAF and PLAAF.

 

[raju1982]

First flight in 2022 and mass production by 2024. Yeah, no. How much ever we curse our Indian projects for delays, a 2 year trial programme simple does not add up. Not even for countries with a mature aerospace industry like US or Russia.

That might be IOC variants. For Koreans anything is possible.

 

[raju1982]

You expect me to take that as gospel.

Are you kidding me

F35 is operational in dozen air forces

It's serving for over a decade

What chance have we Tejas against j20

True, we are in backfoot after J-20 is fielded against India. But F-35/Su-57 is not the solution, it is AMCA. Now AMCA is not coming before 2040. So again F-35 or Su-57 as immediate solution. As of now USA did not sell F-35 outside its lapdogs, which India will never comply with. Recent support of US for Khalistani terrorists made it more complicated. Su-57 will bring sanctions with it. No one even shkwing interest though its engine is one of the best.

 

[mokoman]

cant believe this was 2 years ago .

only picture of AMCA , hopefully waiting for mk2 now

 

[Super Flanker]

Everyone is talking about the Korean KF-21 and comparing it with the AMCA. Honestly, it makes no sense to compare the two programs.

• AMCA from the start has been designed as a fifth generation fighter as in the likes of F-22, F-35, J-20, Su-57 PAKFA.
• The Korean KF-21 in its current configuration is nothing but a 4++ generation aircraft with stealth characteristics surpassing that of current fourth gen planes such as Dassault Rafale, Sukhoi flanker family, American F-series (excluding the F-35 and F-22) etc.
• It's basically a semi stealth near fifth generation plane, it's stupid to even think of comparing the KF-21 with AMCA, AMCA will be a full fledged, all aspect stealth fighter.
• The Koreans have a received a lot of blessings in disguise as help from the US, especially in development of crucial tech for the Boramae's onboard avionics. It's same with Turkey, from behind the curtains, Turks received a lot of technical know how to develop their TAI-FX. Turkey was part of the F-35 JSF programme until their expulsion from the programme because of their S-400 SAM acquisition form Russia.
• About the KF-21, I believe that Korea is planning a block 2 variant of the KF-21 which will be a true full fledged fifth generation Stealth fighter with actual Weopon bay. In the current configuration, the KF-21 does not have a weopon bay, rather to maintain a low profile, it carries missiles which have half of their body sticking out and the other half flush into the weopon bay, it's more stealthy than how convention planes such as F-16, F-15, Rafale carry their load on their pylons but not as stealthy as a full fledged internal weopon bay design.
• No one is going to share any tech for AMCA unless we want to part away with a little bit of our "sovereignty" and become a satellite State of America. AMCA is completely an Indian effort. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I believe that the funds for AMCA have still not been released.

Let's be sensible when making conclusions about anything and don't go out being so unnecessarily pessimistic when seeing another country's achievement. Relax people! We will get there!

 

[Azaad]

Everyone is talking about the Korean KF-21 and comparing it with the AMCA. Honestly, it makes no sense to compare the two programs.

• AMCA from the start has been designed as a fifth generation fighter as in the likes of F-22, F-35, J-20, Su-57 PAKFA.
• The Korean KF-21 in its current configuration is nothing but a 4++ generation aircraft with stealth characteristics surpassing that of current fourth gen planes such as Dassault Rafale, Sukhoi flanker family, American F-series (excluding the F-35 and F-22) etc.
• It's basically a semi stealth near fifth generation plane, it's stupid to even think of comparing the KF-21 with AMCA, AMCA will be a full fledged, all aspect stealth fighter.
• The Koreans have a received a lot of blessings in disguise as help from the US, especially in development of crucial tech for the Boramae's onboard avionics. It's same with Turkey, from behind the curtains, Turks received a lot of technical know how to develop their TAI-FX. Turkey was part of the F-35 JSF programme until their expulsion from the programme because of their S-400 SAM acquisition form Russia.
• About the KF-21, I believe that Korea is planning a block 2 variant of the KF-21 which will be a true full fledged fifth generation Stealth fighter with actual Weopon bay. In the current configuration, the KF-21 does not have a weopon bay, rather to maintain a low profile, it carries missiles which have half of their body sticking out and the other half flush into the weopon bay, it's more stealthy than how convention planes such as F-16, F-15, Rafale carry their load on their pylons but not as stealthy as a full fledged internal weopon bay design.
• No one is going to share any tech for AMCA unless we want to part away with a little bit of our "sovereignty" and become a satellite State of America. AMCA is completely an Indian effort. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I believe that the funds for AMCA have still not been released.

Let's be sensible when making conclusions about anything and don't go out being so unnecessarily pessimistic when seeing another country's achievement. Relax people! We will get there!

ADA is following the same pattern as KAI. Our AMCA is going to be a two phased program. AMCA Mk-1 isn't going to have an Internal Bay but will have stealth characteristics . In other words it's going to be a semi stealth 4.5Gen ++ FA ( assuming such a classification exists ).

The definitive stealth FA will be the AMCA Mk-2 .

 

[karn]

ADA is following the same pattern as KAI. Our AMCA is going to be a two phased program. AMCA Mk-1 isn't going to have an Internal Bay but will have stealth characteristics . In other words it's going to be a semi stealth 4.5Gen ++ FA ( assuming such a classification exists ).

The definitive stealth FA will be the AMCA Mk-2 .

No .. AMCA1 will have an internal bay .. what it will not have is engines efficient enough to allow it it supercruise, won't have a DAS either . And based on what news is coming out of any french collab no next gen tech like adaptive cycle engine even for the amca2 .

 

[Azaad]

No .. AMCA1 will have an internal bay ..

I stand corrected. In which case AMCA Mk-1 can be considered 5th Gen too.

what it will not have is engines efficient enough to allow it it supercruise, won't have a DAS either . And based on what news is coming out of any french collab no next gen tech like adaptive cycle engine even for the amca2 .

Whether it's mandatory for a 5th Gen FA to possess supercruise abilities is in itself a topic of huge debate across the world in defence fora such as this one .

F-35 doesn't supercruise , however the Rafale does. Meanwhile the former is considered 5th Gen whereas the latter is considered to be 4.5 Gen ++

 

[karn]

I stand corrected. In which case AMCA Mk-1 can be considered 5th Gen too.



Whether it's mandatory for a 5th Gen FA to possess supercruise abilities is in itself a topic of huge debate across the world in defence fora such as this one .

F-35 doesn't supercruise , however the Rafale does. Meanwhile the former is considered 5th Gen whereas the latter is considered to be 4.5 Gen ++

I agree the specs of AMCA 1 are good enough for our neighbours for the foreseeable future .. But truely next gen tech like adaptive cycle engines and rotating detonation engines have reached the prototype stage in america .. I wonder how long we can hang on to the cope that "aero turbines are the toughest tech ever"

 

[vampyrbladez]

I think that the KF 21 Boramae can be compared to the F 15 Silent Eagle. Not a true 5th generation fighter jet but belonging to the 4+++ generation of fighter jets.

KF 21 uses an IRST unit and doesn't have DAS

KF 21 doesn't have an internal weapons bay and uses cavities on the base of it's bidy to house weapons and lower RCS.

AMCA's last render (2022)

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

cant believe this was 2 years ago .

only picture of AMCA , hopefully waiting for mk2 now

That is pic of RCS test box

Says so on the plate

 

[mokoman]

That is pic of RCS test box

Says so on the plate

yea , saw that written on the base .

RCS test box is for measuring radar cross section , looks something like pic below

was "hoping" the yellow thing on the base is part of wing structure or something .

have to admire psu govt babus publishing that picture , literally showing nothing . acting like its jet roll out .

 

[Satish Sharma]

I think that the KF 21 Boramae can be compared to the F 15 Silent Eagle. Not a true 5th generation fighter jet but belonging to the 4+++ generation of fighter jets.

KF 21 uses an IRST unit and doesn't have DAS

KF 21 doesn't have an internal weapons bay and uses cavities on the base of it's bidy to house weapons and lower RCS.

AMCA's last render (2022)

I think koreans want to make a aircraft with operating costs of 4 generation aircraft. Kf21 as of now is nowhere near 5th generation nor it is stealth it's gun hole is visible just like f16 it lack internal weapons bay.
It doesn't have EOTS, Das neither it has any kind of MAWS.. they just want a aircraft with damn cheap operating costs for there purpose

Keeping Whole fleet of 5th generation is financial disaster Koreans are smart they are building same aircraft in 4gen form which have least rcs.
And they want a mixture of 4 gen fleet with 5gen till then kf21 will become even more matured design they will refine it as per there experience...

 

[Zoid Raptor]