Akash Surface-to-air Missile

[Kunal Biswas]

I don't think we will be ordering S 400 or any other system our requirements will be taken care by Barak/ Akash and Spyder in medium term and once PAD enters production it will take care of long term needs

PAD is only effective against Ballistic Missiles..
Barak 8 is effective against but few in numbers only protecting major Cities sites and nuclear installations..
Spyder is excellent but again only few to defend only Major Airbases..

Akash1 is a +25km missile available in mass and will be providing Airdefense to front line defenses, But having only Akash1 is not enough, IAF & IA need lots of SA-16/ Indigenous ( Short range +10km ) and long Range S-300/400 home made types, to compleate the total multi layer Airdefence system..

In an Interesting find in Advanced Air Defence (AAD)/Ashwin Ballistic Missile Interceptor , the scientists have said that the AAD missile could be modified into a new extended range (up to 150km) surface-to-air missile that could be possibly named as 'Ashvin', AAD is single stage, solid fuelled missile.

Guidance is similar to that of PAD: Inertial Navigation System, midcourse updates from ground based radar and active radar homing in terminal phase. It is 7.5 metres tall, weighs around 1.2 tonnes and a diameter of less than 0.5 metres..

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...sile-as-a-spin-off_1008669.html#ixzz0Yl4Nj8N6

 

[nitesh]

kunal sir my thinking is based on that for short range systems trishul is off even the collaboration with MBDA which was supposed to produce maitri is dead (correct me if I am wrong here) then SPYDER takes care of our immediate needs and we modify astra to cater for this role in long term then akash ver2, barak and ABM takes center stage in long term for medium and long range needs. I really don't think we will be looking to buy S 400 or S 500

 

[prabhug]

Hi
I have suggestion to make.I felt we lag in sensor's in this case active/semi active radar seeker r IR image seeker.Is there something done for this ?

Cheers

Prabhu.G

 

[nitesh]

Hi
I have suggestion to make.I felt we lag in sensor's in this case active/semi active radar seeker r IR image seeker.Is there something done for this ?

Cheers

Prabhu.G

Well we have already mastered MMW seeker for NAG and there are rumors that Astra has been tested with Indian seeker also

 

[p2prada]

Yes sir, Everybody knows about its altitude range. what i am asking is its horizontal range?

Not been revealed as of now.

The current generation of PAD is not effective against fighters. Modifications to it will allow it to counter such threats. It is something like our version of the S-300/400.

The current generation of AAD is a bit too far fetched in my opinion. Let's see what the next test will reveal to the public.

Barak 8 does not exist as of now.

Barak 1 is a part of the CIWS on ships and not a full fledged SAM.

Akash is our only modern missile system till date and its induction is still pending. The S-300 and Spyders are not in enough numbers to matter.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

kunal sir my thinking is based on that for short range systems trishul is off even the collaboration with MBDA which was supposed to produce maitri is dead (correct me if I am wrong here) then SPYDER takes care of our immediate needs and we modify astra to cater for this role in long term then akash ver2, barak and ABM takes center stage in long term for medium and long range needs. I really don't think we will be looking to buy S 400 or S 500

@Nitesh,
Trishul is a dead project!
As i have mentioned in my earlier post that Spyder is good but few in Numbers and can only protect Main bases,
Modifying Astra as a SAM is a good Idea but Astra is still in prototype stage!
Akash is good but as i repeatedly saying that only having Akash is not enough but the whole Long-medium-short indigenous platforms!
Indian may purchase S-500 if DRDO dont get ' +200km Ashvin' operational..

In an Interesting find in Advanced Air Defence (AAD)/Ashwin Ballistic Missile Interceptor , the scientists have said that the AAD missile could be modified into a new extended range (up to 150km) surface-to-air missile that could be possibly named as 'Ashvin', AAD is single stage, solid fuelled missile.

For now Indian Army & IAF have to relay on SA-16/7 for short range, Medium is archived by Akash1&2 +25-60km and Long will be archive by Ashvin +150km..

 

[ppgj]

Hi
I have suggestion to make.I felt we lag in sensor's in this case active/semi active radar seeker r IR image seeker.Is there something done for this ?

Cheers

Prabhu.G

Well we have already mastered MMW seeker for NAG and there are rumors that Astra has been tested with Indian seeker also

MMW seeker is not yet operational. they are still working on it. however according to unconfirmed rumours IIR's are already being manufactured at BEL. considering PAD/ASTRA/NAG sporting them only adds to the rumours!!!

however it is known all along Israel is helping out BEL in this. some reports and blog info FWIW -

Among other projects, BEL was looking at ventures with Israel's Rafael for missile seekers, and with French company Thales International for civilian and defence radars.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2010/04/28/stories/2010042852630900.htm

Tuesday, March 30, 2010
Joint Venture Between Rafael, BEL Now On Track
Aerospace Daily & Defense Report
March 30, 2010

NEW DELHI —Israel's Rafael Advanced Defense Systems is close to accepting a 26% equity stake in a joint venture with India's public sector company, Bharat Electronics Ltd., giving speed to the overdue project.

The venture is to develop advanced imaging infrared seekers for the Python 5 fifth-generation air-to-air missile.India has ordered 18 Spyder systems that use advanced air-to-air missiles as ground-launched surface-to-air missiles. Besides the Python 5, it has the beyond-visual-range Derby missile, which has an active seeker.

BEL says it hopes the joint venture will be sealed within four months. The venture will encourage development of indigenous missile and guidance technologies within India and will enable Rafael to meet offset requirements by transferring technologies and workshare.

India restricts foreign equity in defense projects to 26%. This has been a bone of contention among foreign companies that say they are constrained to transfer technology as they have no board representation and can exert little influence when they hold just a quarter of the venture's stock.

Rafael and other foreign suppliers want to be able to invest up to 49 percent. However, Rafael Chairman Ilan Biran acknowledges that the lure of India's defense jobs is enough to overcome his basic objections to the government's foreign investment restrictions.

The ultimate solution is forming joint ventures, he told Aviation Week in an exclusive interview.

"They [Rafael] have come close to agreeing more or less on the 26% stake," BEL Chairman & Managing Director Ashwani Kumar Datt said."[The joint venture] is moving in the sense that we are reworking our plans [now that] the transfer of technology will be different."

Rafael's interest in roping in a third private partner has been rejected by BEL. "We have made it clear that we are not in a position to get a third partner," Datt said.
The Python-5 missile provides the user with a full sphere launch capability.

It can be launched from a very short range to beyond visual range, and also is offered in an air defense configuration.
- Neelam Mathews

http://aerospacediary.blogspot.com/2010/03/joint-venture-between-rafael-bel-now-on.html

 

[nitesh]

ppqj i am not talking from thin air my source is this report, now please don't tell me this is wrong

http://mod.nic.in/reports/AR-eng-2010.pdf

page 86:

Millimeter Wave Seeker : Millimeter Wave Seeker with Seeker Servo systems have been developed for Anti-Tank applications and successfully field tested.

 

[ppgj]

ppqj i am not talking from thin air my source is this report, now please don't tell me this is wrong

http://mod.nic.in/reports/AR-eng-2010.pdf

page 86:

Millimeter Wave Seeker : Millimeter Wave Seeker with Seeker Servo systems have been developed for Anti-Tank applications and successfully field tested.

thanks Nitesh for the info.

if you read my post, i never contested that MMW seeker was not developed. i said it is still not operational due to some issues (may be integration or effectiveness - no idea really), which i am sure they will get over in the coming days.

 

[nitesh]

but that line specifically says field tested also. Let's see how mag comes out finally

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Akash1 is a +25km missile available in mass and will be providing Airdefense to front line defenses, But having only Akash1 is not enough, IAF & IA need lots of SA-16/ Indigenous ( Short range +10km ) and long Range S-300/400 home made types, to compleate the total multi layer Airdefence system..

Kunal do we need s-300/400 when we have PDV in development???

http://aach.net:8080/poparticle.php?ID=264572&HC=1

 

[ppgj]

but that line specifically says field tested also. Let's see how mag comes out finally

yes it says so. but have they been successful?? IMO, there are some hiccups - which is only natural and not insurmountable. they will get over it. in case they have overcome those, then HELINA (LCH) and the NAG (Namica) will start sporting them soon. that would be great.

btw thanks again for the bulky link you gave. it took ages to down load!!! =xD

 

[nitesh]

yes it says so. but have they been successful?? IMO, there are some hiccups - which is only natural and not insurmountable. they will get over it. in case they have overcome those, then HELINA (LCH) and the NAG (Namica) will start sporting them from soon. that would be great.

btw thanks again for the bulky link you gave. it took ages to down load!!! =xD

are yaar you are not reading the line properly

Millimeter Wave Seeker : Millimeter Wave Seeker with Seeker Servo systems have been developed for Anti-Tank applications and successfully field tested.

So we can safely assume that the tests were successful right?

yes the file is bulky more then 90 MB instead check the summary in post 449 here: http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/sh...ch-in-DRDO-and-PSU-news-and-discussion/page45
And yes it is more then 90 MB file instead you can check the summary I did in DRDO thread post 449.

 

[ppgj]

are yaar you are not reading the line properly

Millimeter Wave Seeker : Millimeter Wave Seeker with Seeker Servo systems have been developed for Anti-Tank applications and successfully field tested.

So we can safely assume that the tests were successful right?

yes the file is bulky more then 90 MB instead check the summary in post 449 here: http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/sh...ch-in-DRDO-and-PSU-news-and-discussion/page45
And yes it is more then 90 MB file instead you can check the summary I did in DRDO thread post 449.

the down load was too bulky. i answered on the basis of your "field tested" observation.

just saw the relevant portion from the link. that clarifies. that is good. but why they are not fielded?? are the new nags being equipped with them?? any info??

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal do we need s-300/400 when we have PDV in development???

nd long Range S-300/400 home made types

For now Indian Army & IAF have to relay on SA-16/7 ( 10-15km) for short range, Medium is archived by Akash1&2 +25-60km and Long will be archive by Ashvin +150km..

I did mentioned 'Home made' besides PAD have no use against flying Aircrafts, And i also mentioned in my previous posts abt indigenous Air-defense network!

 

[prabhug]

Using PAD for aeroplanes would be over kill . Hope it can be used for it as well . The interceptors in ABM would be faster than conventional SAM's .What u guys say?

Cheers

Prabhu.G

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Using PAD for aeroplanes would be over kill . Hope it can be used for it as well . The interceptors in ABM would be faster than conventional SAM's .What u guys say?

Cheers

Prabhu.G

The interceptors are MACH 4 hypersonic interceptors.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1747760/posts

 

[prabhug]

So my assumption was correct .PAD would be overkill . I think using Aesa would reduce number of radars used by a battery.Now they have communication centre , Battery level radar and battery level survillence radar.Will Aesa make it a single radar and probably we have one extra reserve .throw me some light on this??

Cheers

Prabhu.G

 

[LETHALFORCE]

PAD is for ballistic missiles we have SAM's for the planes. AESA radar will be used with akash 2 and PAD will use an other radar LRTR .

 

[nitesh]

well good news guys:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...ine=Akash Missile System For Indian Army OK'd

The Army version of the Akash missile system, valued at Rs 12,500 crore ($2.8 billion), has been cleared for induction by India's Defense Acquisition Council (DAC).
The India military services' combined orders of the Defense Research and Development Organization-developed Akash, including two radars, have a total worth of Rs 23,300 crore. This is an unprecedented defense order for a DRDO-developed weapons system, and the biggest order ever for DRDO's tactical missile and radar systems.

The DAC had earlier approved Rs 2,800 crore worth of 3-D Surveillance-cum-Acquisition Radars, independent of the missiles, for all three services.

"Seventy radars have been ordered, each costing Rs 40 core," the official said. In addition, the Indian Army has ordered Rs 1,500 crore of Weapon-Locating Radar, each costing Rs 50 crore.

"In the next 7-8 years, close to 100 Indian industries will benefit from these projects. The project support for the services for these systems will be there for 25 years," the official said. "This is a big boost to Indian industries with so much of money being pumped into the Indian economy. It is a great wealth-generation opportunity, in addition to [the] creation of more jobs as a home-grown tactical missile system is finally getting on top in place of the French, Russian, British and Israeli systems. This will give DRDO the much-needed lift and the Indian industry know-how to manufacture complicated weapon systems."

"The R&D cost of Rs 1,000 crore, including the project sanction of Rs 600 crore, is 8-10 times lower than the cost of similar system developments in advanced countries," the official said. "Akash, which is considered as Indian 'poor man's Patriot,' has certain unique characteristics like mobility, all-the-way-powered flight till target interception, multiple target handling, digitally-coded command guidance and fully automatic operation."

The Akash missile systems consist of a launcher, a missile with a 25-30 km. range, control center, multifunction fire control radar and supporting ground equipment.