AH-64E Apache attack helicopter

[The Messiah]

'India agreed to buy US defence products in return for deal'



'India agreed to buy US defence products in return for deal' � readiscover


In short we are becoming US surrogates subjected to arm twisting from the white house

And even the nuclear deal is falling through.

 

[Bhadra]

Why stingers as part of the package?

Dear sir,
earlier you told Arya:

"Arya, son I think you need to read up a lot before posting. You may be new. It would help you if you spend time to read around and also see how people post. "

Mod Edit: Behave properly, and show respect to expect the same.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Any indications about how many will be equipped with Longbow? Some reports claim that it may only be a subset. That would be exceedingly daft in my opinion.

Out of 22, 12 with Radar..

 

[ace009]

Dear sir,
earlier you told Arya:

"Arya, son I think you need to read up a lot before posting. You may be new. It would help you if you spend time to read around and also see how people post. "

Do that yourself too ! you need stingers mainly to shoot enemy hepter in combat or may be an aircraft too.......

Not good to pick on Yusuf - we already discussed this - you should read the posts too ...

 

[ace009]

Out of 22, 12 with Radar..

Why only 22? Isn't that a rather small number for a medium-weight attack chopper? The best way to use them is in wolfpacks of 4-5 each - 22 means IA/ IAF can only get 4-5 packs at any time! For two fronts and huge open terrains in the west, IA/ IAF should get a hundred or so with 20-25 Longbows - right?

 

[Ray]

Dear sir,
earlier you told Arya:

"Arya, son I think you need to read up a lot before posting. You may be new. It would help you if you spend time to read around and also see how people post. "

Do that yourself too ! you need stingers mainly to shoot enemy hepter in combat or may be an aircraft too.......

Well, there is a slight difference.

One is when one wants to be obtuse for the sake of wanting to be obtuse, and the other is a genuine question.

I presume Yusuf is asking a genuine question.

Since you know much as it appears, could you tell me why there are 10 men in an Infantry section and not more or less?

 

[pmaitra]

You are right to a certain extent. The Soviet Army had similar issues with the Mil-24/35 in Afghanistan. They had to do rolling takeoffs. They have addressed those shortcomings in the Mil-28N and also introduced the Mil-28N rotors in the old Mil-24/35s. However, it still is too heavy for the Himalayas. Is the AH-64 good? Perhaps better than Mil-28N, but then we have our own LCH specifically designed for the Himalayan heights.

Again, note that we have Mil-28N as a gunship at one end of the spectrum and the Mil-17 as a troop transporter at the other end. Mil-24/35 sits right in the middle fusing both the roles. Hence, Mil-28N is better optimised for assault and will not have the extra load of the passenger compartment and the passengers (save a small space for rescuing pilots of downed helicopters which will be rarely used anyway).

Just like Ray Sir said below, you can either have a light helicopter that is vulnerable or have a rock solid flying bunker that cannot go to the heights. You cannot have both. It's a matter of trade-off.

it really is....sir but i didnt understand the underlined part...can u please explain a little bit more...??!!

Ok, let me try and explain again.

You have two distinct roles for helicopters.

1. Pure troop transport.
2. Pure gunship.

1. Mil-17 caters to role 1. Hence it is not heavily armoured and relatively light and can even go up to Siachen glacier.
2. Mil-28N caters to role 2. Hence it is heavily armoured but has just enough room for two crew and a small space in case they have to rescue pilots of downed aircraft.
3. Mil-24/35 combines the above two roles. Hence, it is armoured for assault missions and therefore heavy and also has a passenger compartment which makes is even heavier compared to Mil-28N. The latter is 100 kg heavier in pure terms, but remember, that weight is not by virtue of a passenger compartment but fuselage armour and additionally will not have to carry any added passengers.

Do you see what I am saying?

 

[Damian]

@ Damian, is there any radar in operation/ development that is similar to the Longbow?

As far as I know Russians were traying on Mi-28, but it seem they have some problems with their radar.

In Europe nobody were even trying, even EC Tiger was designed with outdated ideas in terms of FCS, they just put electrooptical sights over main rotor, not good, because still heli needs to pop up from behind cover to take a shot, then it can go behind cover again while still observing targets but... in times where AA is more and more advanced I would not even want to pop up from behind, even if this takes only second.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@ Damian, is there any radar in operation/ development that is similar to the Longbow?

All weather day-and-night combat helicopter. It is equipped with a top-mounted millimeter wave radar station, IR-TV, and laser ranger. Serial Mi-28N will have two Russian Klimov TV3-117V MA-SB3 engines (2,500 hp each), made in production by the Ukrainian Motor-Sich. Max take off weight of 11500 kg, max payload weight of 2,350 kg.

 

[Yusuf]

Dear sir,
earlier you told Arya:

"Arya, son I think you need to read up a lot before posting. You may be new. It would help you if you spend time to read around and also see how people post. "

Do that yourself too ! you need stingers mainly to shoot enemy hepter in combat or may be an aircraft too.......

Now that you have decided to make a fool of yourself, read the post properly.

This is a stinger FIM-92 Stinger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Man portable system. Why would it be on a helo?
Stingers were used by Afghns against Soviet helos.

You want to test me? Take a shot SON

 

[JBH22]

Now that you have decided to make a fool of yourself, read the post properly.

This is a stinger FIM-92 Stinger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Man portable system. Why would it be on a helo?
Stingers were used by Afghns against Soviet helos.

You want to test me? Take a shot SON

there's an air to air version of this missile similar to Russian approach of fitting R-73 or R-60 to Ka-52 or Mi-35 choppers

 

[Yusuf]

Yeah A2A has been developed as I checked up.
It was renamed AIM92 from the FIM92 original missile

AIM-92 Stinger

The AIM-92 Stinger or ATAS (Air To Air Stinger) is an air-to-air missile developed from the shoulder-launched FIM-92 Stinger system, for use on helicopters such as the AH-64 Apache, Eurocopter Tiger and also UAVs such as the MQ-1 Predator. The missile itself is identical to the shoulder-launched Stinger.

 

[Adux]

Kunal,

The Russians didnt even bring their Radar to India for testing, as it was, believe it or not, not ready. Apache was and is miles ahead of Mi-28. People can talk about being India being a stooge of USA, when the reality they have a better product. Thats it. So are we a Russian stooge because of we have 80% Russian/Soviet Equipment. We are no where in building good things for ourselves, nor are our Russian friends now up to the mark we desire? So what are our options? Does anybody have a C-17 class , less said about the IL-76 the better. Do you know why we reduced one AWACS from Israel? We should have listened to them and taken the Boeing or Airbus, instead of the IL-76. Do you know the uptimes of Sukhoi's? MiG-29's? I think people are too fast and too easy in blaming the GoI.

 

[Bhadra]

Now that you have decided to make a fool of yourself, read the post properly.

This is a stinger FIM-92 Stinger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Man portable system. Why would it be on a helo?
Stingers were used by Afghns against Soviet helos.

You want to test me? Take a shot SON

Mod Edit: You are not mod here, take that in note in future while posting next time no way you can dictate a Mod, Take this as Warning.

To another member, I bet you only know the WWI or WW-II trench warfare reasons for having ten men in (Infantry Section) to execute fire and move after invention of auto fire and that is it. Probably there were more before that and there are less like in Mechanised units now. Even in Infantry, I suppose six can be enough and workable !

How many are there in a Camel unit? and what about SF squad ?... Do you know why ?

But good question nevertheless. work dictates organisation and work is performed by following a perticular method known as tactics. Same is true for why AH-64 and not MI - 28 and why those are different !

 

[Ray]

Well Sir, point taken as given by another gentle member and not that the people who included this in the list were so stupid! However, you seem to having strong desire to have Sons ! Cut that out !

To another member, I bet you only know the WWI or WW-II trench warfare reasons for having ten men in (Infantry Section) to execute fire and move after invention of auto fire and that is it. Probably there were more before that and there are less like in Mechanised units now. Even in Infantry, I suppose six can be enough and workable !

How many are there in a Camel unit? and what about SF squad ?... Do you know why ?

But good question nevertheless. work dictates organisation and work is performed by following a perticular method known as tactics. Same is true for why AH-64 and not MI - 28 and why those are different !

Why another member?

You mean me since I asked you the question.

Well, I take it that your are suggesting that there is no war fought from the trenches.

How do people occupy a section defended post/ platoon defended locality etc? On vehicles? With 6 men sections and workable?

How are they doing it in Afghanistan? Guess!

The organisation of any military unit/ sub unit/ sub sub unit is as per the task. Therefore, is the task of the SF/ Camel unit the same as Infantry?

Further, what is the task of a Mechanised Infantry unit? Any different from an Infantry unit except that they are mounted?

Now, try this question to even an officer in service as to why is there 10 men and not 11 as in Engineers Section and why not less or more.

 

[Bhadra]

Why another member?

You mean me since I asked you the question.

Well, I take it that your are suggesting that there is no war fought from the trenches.

How do people occupy a section defended post/ platoon defended locality etc? On vehicles? With 6 men sections and workable?

How are they doing it in Afghanistan? Guess!

The organisation of any military unit/ sub unit/ sub sub unit is as per the task. Therefore, is the task of the SF/ Camel unit the same as Infantry?

Further, what is the task of a Mechanised Infantry unit? Any different from an Infantry unit except that they are mounted?

Ray,

Mod Edit : Be polite in your approach. Hope this is the last time you are behaving like this.
In short, yes, yes and yes... things are diffrent in environment, methods of execution and even may be in nature of tasks.

 

[Mr.Ryu]

Good going more teeth to IAF but need more Indigenous effort i guess

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal,

The Russians didnt even bring their Radar to India for testing, as it was, believe it or not, not ready. Apache was and is miles ahead of Mi-28. People can talk about being India being a stooge of USA, when the reality they have a better product. Thats it. So are we a Russian stooge because of we have 80% Russian/Soviet Equipment. We are no where in building good things for ourselves, nor are our Russian friends now up to the mark we desire? So what are our options? Does anybody have a C-17 class , less said about the IL-76 the better. Do you know why we reduced one AWACS from Israel? We should have listened to them and taken the Boeing or Airbus, instead of the IL-76. Do you know the uptimes of Sukhoi's? MiG-29's? I think people are too fast and too easy in blaming the GoI.

I dont think i remember i said MI-28 is better or worst..

What i told is what member ( Ace ) asked to Damian..


Adux, More posts of your heading only towards Anti-Russian, Anti-hal, Pro-US, Do we need in Apache thread ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Russia loses $600 mln Indian attack helicopter tender

Russian Mi-28N Night Hunter has lost a tender on the delivery of 22 attack helicopters to the Indian military in strong competition with the American AH-64D Apache, an Indian Defense Ministry source said on Tuesday."We decided not to choose the Mi-28 for technical reasons. Our experts believe that the Mi-28N did not meet the requirements of the tender on 20 positions, while the Apache showed better performance," the source said.The future contract, worth at least $600 million, envisions an optional delivery of additional 22 helicopters.

 

[Yusuf]

Yeah the commies are the first to blame India becoming a stooge of the US but had no problems when we were firmly in the soviet camp