Agni V Missile

no smoking

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Since our non-resident Australia-based Chinese seems to be unusually interested in India's policies, I would strongly suggest to kindly read the speech by the then National Security advisor Shivshankar Menon in 2010 where he clearly outlined a shift in India's NFU policy.

http://www.mea.gov.in/Speeches-Stat...NDC+on+The+Role+of+Force+in+Strategic+Affairs

For clarity you may contact him directly via email or twitter and since he was our ambassador in Mainland China, he may even be able to answer your queries in what you mainlanders call Putonghua.
Firstly, I don't need to contact him because he didn't mention any change in his speech, or maybe you can point out where he said about shifting;
Secondly, rather than him, I would listen to Modi - your CURRENT prime minister asking him why he doesn't agree with you.
 

Chinmoy

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Actually A3 is china specific an designed to deliver huge payload (2.5 to) at a target bellow 2500 km to 4000 km. Big payload and high accuracy allows it to be used in conventional role on high value target.
I think India would shelve A3 after A5 is commissioned and deployed. A3 had served its purpose and maybe it would be used further as a test bed.
 

Kshithij

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I think India would shelve A3 after A5 is commissioned and deployed. A3 had served its purpose and maybe it would be used further as a test bed.
Unlike Prithvi missiles which were difficult to work with due to liquid fuel, Agni 3 is not difficult to work with. Agni 3 may be stopped from production as the difference between Agni 5 and Agni 3 is minimal in size and hence the difference in cost may also be minimal. But shelving is unwarranted.
 

AnantS

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I think India would shelve A3 after A5 is commissioned and deployed. A3 had served its purpose and maybe it would be used further as a test bed.
or could be upgraded to A 5 with an addition of stage? A3 with MARV would be good for Pakis or can be developed in ASBM?

Meanwhile from the pictures of latest test of A 5- I guess the reason for camouflage- could be an existing non canisterised missile from stock was canisterised?
 

HariPrasad-1

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I think India would shelve A3 after A5 is commissioned and deployed. A3 had served its purpose and maybe it would be used further as a test bed.
A3 was already improved in line of A4 and A5. Its weight was reduced to just 23 tons from 48 tons. So A3 is a state of art missile now.
 

Chinmoy

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A3 was already improved in line of A4 and A5. Its weight was reduced to just 23 tons from 48 tons. So A3 is a state of art missile now.
A3 has been a stepping stone for A5. If you have noticed the last trial of A5, it was tested for 3K Km instead of its full range. Improvements brought in A3 has been corporated in A5. So I think with A5 finally reaching acceptance stage, A3 would see some more launch in coming days with improvements. It would become a test bed for new techs in coming days IMO.
 

mayfair

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Firstly, I don't need to contact him because he didn't mention any change in his speech, or maybe you can point out where he said about shifting;
Clearly you need to look again

"The Indian nuclear doctrine also reflects this strategic culture, with its emphasis on minimal deterrence, no first use against non-nuclear weapon states and its direct linkage to nuclear disarmament."

Secondly, rather than him, I would listen to Modi - your CURRENT prime minister asking him why he doesn't agree with you.
Well if better sense has indeed prevailed and you indeed wish to listen carefully to what ModiJi has to say, you can start by listening and paying heed to his views and advice on BRI and on working together in cooperation and not confrontation.

Secondly, you have quoted PM Modi's statements from 2013, when he was not the PM, only a CM and therefore mostly likely not in the know!! and the BJP manifesto from 2014, before Narendra Modi became the PM. National security matters are not typically discussed with state Chief Ministers you see.

Our NFU policy need not be tom-tommed at every platform. The policies are determined, evaluated, remodelled and reframed as per our current understanding and perceptions and unlike the Napakis we do not scream and holler aitum bum at every drop of the hat.

May I remind you, not one Israeli PM has come out and formally acknowledged their country's nuclear weapons status, yet it is internationally recognised that Israel is a de facto nuclear weapons state.

You are free to believe what you want about India's NFU. If you wish to believe that our NFU is still constrained with old benchmarks, it's entirely upto you.
 

sayareakd

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This is some extreme absurdity I have heard of NFU. Who told you that all the capabilities are determined by NFU? What training will anyone get because of NFU? What warhead stocking will change because of NFU?
In kargil war, we has less then double digits, Prithvi and agni missiles with nuke ready, just in case.
 

indus

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Most of our nuclear doctrine was prepared post 1998 tests. Since that moment we were recognised a nuclear power but not a defacto nuke power since we were out of the NPT regime. So ABV Govt had to devise ways to placate the whole World into believing that our nuclear weapons were for self protection and not to terrorise other countries, being in line with our Ahimsa, Gandhian principles, blah blah. This appeasement of World at large was done in many ways. Permanent moratorium on tests meant we will not test nukes again, which meant conforming to CTBT without actually signing it. Through NFU we further placated the World by saying that we wont fire first but our retaliation will be massive. So NFU is always coupled with MR. But this was giving too much leeway to Pakistan as its our main adversary and carried nukes. So the sub clause of NNWS was added. It gave a protection to the non nuclear weapon states that since we wont fire first the NNWS countries would automatically be never the target of Indian nuke weapons. But post 2014 Parrikar was seen quoting that NFU was outdated concept. If Pak could not resist using nukes in certain conditions why shld India bind itself to NFU. Post 2012 when cold start strategy was devised to counter limitations of a slow mobilisation of Indian army, Pak resorted to concept of TNWs to counter CS. From there on NFU was seen to be getting obsolete. Because there was nothing in NFU and MR strategy to counter a tactical nuke by Pakistan. IMO preemptive strike is/ will be incorporated into our doctrine. Because it serves the present threat scenario well.
 

Kshithij

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In kargil war, we has less then double digits, Prithvi and agni missiles with nuke ready, just in case.
That is not necessarily true. No one tells these things. India was not interested in using nuclear bombs for a skirmish. Also, USA switched off GPS to avoid India from using it as guidance.
 

happylion

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The Indian system was not totally GPS dependent. It had Intertial guidance and star sighting.. Now we have RINGS and MINGS
 
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Kshithij

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The Indian system was not totally GPS dependent. It had Intertial guidance and star sighting.. Now we have RINGS and MINGS
In 1999 Indian guidance was not advanced. It only got advanced later.
 

lcafanboy

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No, NFU can't be changed at the last minute. Your nuclear program, warhead stocking, personnel training, etc, etc, have been designed around it. It will take decades to turn the whole system around.
NFU changed the day India launched nuclear submarines and SLBMs (K15 K4 K5 K6) and Agni-5. For NFU you need to keep missiles and warheads seperately and unmated but with nuclear submarines and SLBMs and canisterized Agni-5/6 the whole game has changed.

You can't mate or fit warheads inside submarines or canisterized missiles. So now we have ready to use weapons or on hair trigger just like P-5. Welcome to new super power India.

I wish you people live in la-la land but Winnie the pooh she jumping pig knows very well days of blackmailing have gone and therefore he is crying every where that Agni-5 is 8000kms. He knows NFU is not for chipong Lizard China and porkistan but for others.....:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:
 

Kshithij

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NFU changed the day India launched nuclear submarines and SLBMs (K15 K4 K5 K6) and Agni-5. For NFU you need to keep missiles and warheads seperately and unmated but with nuclear submarines and SLBMs and canisterized Agni-5/6 the whole game has changed.

You can't mate or fit warheads inside submarines or canisterized missiles. So now we have ready to use weapons or on hair trigger just like P-5. Welcome to new super power India.

I wish you people live in la-la land but Winnie the pooh she jumping pig knows very well days of blackmailing have gone and therefore he is crying every where that Agni-5 is 8000kms. He knows NFU is not for chipong Lizard China and porkistan but for others.....:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:
No first useis different from keeping nuclear warhead mated on missiles. No first use is only about not using it first ' out of choice', not by avoiding the capabilities of first use
 

happylion

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The Indian system was not totally GPS dependent. It had Intertial guidance and star sighting.. Now we have RINGS and MINGS
Prithvi 2 very much had a strap on inertial guidance system in place. Also I doubt we ever got a military grade signal from the American GPS and could only be augmented.

Anyway Prithvi had a bad accuracy anyway compared to modern missiles and I doubt additional GPS could have fixed that.

The Nirbhay test had a second GPS guidance blip which probably started rolling the process for IRNSS
 
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no smoking

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This is some extreme absurdity I have heard of NFU. Who told you that all the capabilities are determined by NFU?
NFU generally means minimum deterrence which means there are quite a lot systems which you don't need, such as 24-7 surveillance system, early warning system, long hours patrolling strategic bombers, etc;

What training will anyone get because of NFU?
The member sayareakd once mentioned that Prithvi only got around 120 shoots until 2018. If his figure is right (it matches some online figures), barely 4 times per year, considering India has 4 missile groups armed with this weapon, that means each group got only one shooting chance. That is barely enough to check the quality of a short-range missiles in stock. In the meantime, US carried out more than 160 times tests for her ICBM trident 2.


You can also look at the tests of India's missile in development: Agni-5, from 2012 to today, only 5 tests in 6 years, even Chinese DF-41 has 10 tests from 2012, not to mention the R&D speed of the two nuclear war fighting countries.

What warhead stocking will change because of NFU?
Just like China, India's warheads are stored separately from missiles and in a disassembled state.
 

no smoking

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NFU changed the day India launched nuclear submarines and SLBMs (K15 K4 K5 K6) and Agni-5. For NFU you need to keep missiles and warheads seperately and unmated but with nuclear submarines and SLBMs and canisterized Agni-5/6 the whole game has changed.
The game hasn't changed because all of the weapons in your list haven't entered service or patrolling with nuclear warhead.

You can't mate or fit warheads inside submarines or canisterized missiles. So now we have ready to use weapons or on hair trigger just like P-5. Welcome to new super power India.
To the fanboy like you, nuclear war is just another TV game, isn't it? India doesn't even have the necessary systems in place to put your weapon on hair trigger.

I wish you people live in la-la land but Winnie the pooh she jumping pig knows very well days of blackmailing have gone and therefore he is crying every where that Agni-5 is 8000kms. He knows NFU is not for chipong Lizard China and porkistan but for others.....:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:
Yes, typical fanboy thinking: one Chinese guesses Agni-5 maybe 8000km, every Indian fanboy jumps up, "Now, Chinese acknowledge Agni-5 is a true ICBM". Sorry to wake up your dream, no, Chinese doesn't think the range of this missile is 8000km and it is outdated.
 

mayfair

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Doesn't matter what you Chinese think or believe. You are free to have your opinions...Scratch that CCP is free to decide theirs and your views as they want.

In the meantime we will continue to define and refine our policies and our systems as we deem fit. If it induces chi-paao shiver, you can go take a dip in the Ch'ang Chiang till you stop freaking out.
 

Jameson Emoni

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The game hasn't changed because all of the weapons in your list haven't entered service or patrolling with nuclear warhead.



To the fanboy like you, nuclear war is just another TV game, isn't it? India doesn't even have the necessary systems in place to put your weapon on hair trigger.


Yes, typical fanboy thinking: one Chinese guesses Agni-5 maybe 8000km, every Indian fanboy jumps up, "Now, Chinese acknowledge Agni-5 is a true ICBM". Sorry to wake up your dream, no, Chinese doesn't think the range of this missile is 8000km and it is outdated.
Of course Indians are going to be fans of India. Should Indians be fans of China, instead?
 

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