Agni V Missile test launch

[trackwhack]

Sleeping dogs are quite scared of fire crackers.

Defense shields are not fool proof...try firing 100 agni's with nukes and even if 10% get through there would be massive destruction. ICMB's are a deterrence. Its consequences go much beyond military means. Like i said if we want to throw our weight around then let us stop acting like wimps and become worried about "sleeping dogs" FFS!

Thats not likely to happen anytime soon. Even on this forum - a defence forum - we seem to have more pacifists than are necessary. The lets not ruffle feathers type. But when it comes to fighting amongst ourselves be it northy v southy, liberal v conservative, linguistic, communal whatever it is, we are champs.

 

[pmaitra]

China will Fume There will be a lot of India bashing in CCP mouth pieces and Chinese blogs :taunt1:

Unless you read Chinese, you are guessing. However, it is probable that PRC's commentators will be just as way of India's development in the defence sector.

We have capability to launch rockets in space reaching moon & place 7 satellites on specific co-ordinates in earth's orbit tipped on single rocket.

I think that ensures our ability to build long range missiles according to the threat perception. Announcing that India is going to test 15K ICBM is not declaration of capability, its a statement to deter the incoming(?) adversary.

Western strategists are not naive enough to think that just because there is no declaration by GOI about ICBM, it means that Indian rockets can not reach western shores.

Well said. It is common sense, given that India can place satellites into orbit, India already has the ability to lob warheads anywhere on this earth.

Beryllium is used in rocket nozzles.

BERYLLIUM EROSION CORROSION INVESTIGATION FOR SOLID ROCKET NOZZLES

A former colleague of mine who used to ruminate about such things, once estimated that since beryllium is a carcinogen, a full scale nuclear war would release enough of it into the atmosphere, that anyone who survived the immediate radiological effects would eventually die of cancer, For some reason he was quite pleased with himself and his reasoning. An odd chap.

You are right, but I wonder, the carcinogenic effect from Beryllium is going to be minute compared to all the radiocativity from the nukes themselves.

 

[LalTopi]

Sleeping dogs are quite scared of fire crackers.

Defense shields are not fool proof...try firing 100 agni's with nukes and even if 10% get through there would be massive destruction. ICMB's are a deterrence. Its consequences go much beyond military means. Like i said if we want to throw our weight around then let us stop acting like wimps and become worried about "sleeping dogs" FFS!

Exactly, to have a credible defence against the US it's a huge numbers game. Do we have a hundred warheads to spare that we would rather point them at the US than the enemies on our doorstep? In any case, was it not said in the Arthashastra that the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' ?

 

[The Messiah]

Exactly, to have a credible defence against the US it's a huge numbers game. Do we have a hundred warheads to spare that we would rather point them at the US than the enemies on our doorstep? In any case, was it not said in the Arthashastra that the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' ?

Who said we will point it at them ?

What if they drop one on us (hypothetical situation) what will we do ? Think about it. Dont say they wont because this same mentality has toppled many a kingdoms and empires in India throughout history.

National security should be formed taking into basis all probable situations in the future.

 

[ajay_ijn]

if Agni-5s first & second stage dimensions and weight are same as Agni-3, then how they are able to squeeze third stage into it? by reducing size of RV as shown in drawings?

 

[LalTopi]

Who said we will point it at them ?

What if they drop one on us (hypothetical situation) what will we do ? Think about it. Dont say they wont because this same mentality has toppled many a kingdoms and empires in India throughout history.

National security should be formed taking into basis all probable situations in the future.

Look, I agree with you. India should have its own full range of missiles, including true 15k km plus range ICBMs. My only issues are around the timing and strategy of how we get there. I just feel that if we go gungo ho and start testing 15k km plus missiles sratightaway, then we will start alarming the American and European public, who will start to ask questions over why we need such long range missiles. Remember that at the moment these people are supplying us with P8s, C17s, Apaches, Rafales, etc. All force multiplying technology against the enemies on our border. Do we want to start alarming them so that we cease to have access to such technology?

Also I question the effectiveness of such super long range land based ICBMs. Might it not be more militarily effective as well as politik to focus on perfecting sub 5k stealth missiles +/- MIRV launched from SSBNs? These may well be a more effective deterent against any future hostile turn by the Americans and not alarm them in the short term whilst they supply us with technological goodies.

 

[ajay_ijn]

Also I question the effectiveness of such super long range land based ICBMs. Might it not be more militarily effective as well as politik to focus on perfecting sub 5k stealth missiles +/- MIRV launched from SSBNs? These may well be a more effective deterent against any future hostile turn by the
Americans and not alarm them in the short term whilst they supply us with technological goodies.

US SSNs will be circling around our SSBNs.

Look, I agree with you. India should have its own full range of missiles, including true 15k km plus range ICBMs. My only issues are around the timing and strategy of how we get there. I just feel that if we go gungo ho and start testing 15k km plus missiles sratightaway, then we will start alarming the American and European public, who will start to ask questions over why we need such long range missiles. Remember that at the moment these people are supplying us with P8s, C17s, Apaches, Rafales, etc. All force multiplying technology against the enemies on our border. Do we want to start alarming them so that we cease to have access to such technology?

we should somehow come up with good explanation to pacify the western countries. we can say its a peaceful nuclear missile

 

[The Messiah]

Look, I agree with you. India should have its own full range of missiles, including true 15k km plus range ICBMs. My only issues are around the timing and strategy of how we get there. I just feel that if we go gungo ho and start testing 15k km plus missiles sratightaway, then we will start alarming the American and European public, who will start to ask questions over why we need such long range missiles. Remember that at the moment these people are supplying us with P8s, C17s, Apaches, Rafales, etc. All force multiplying technology against the enemies on our border. Do we want to start alarming them so that we cease to have access to such technology?

Also I question the effectiveness of such super long range land based ICBMs. Might it not be more militarily effective as well as politik to focus on perfecting sub 5k stealth missiles +/- MIRV launched from SSBNs? These may well be a more effective deterent against any future hostile turn by the Americans and not alarm them in the short term whilst they supply us with technological goodies.

I think the timing now or in the recent future would be favorable because they need us to counter china. They need us more than we need them.

On the international stage our reputation is as clean as it can get. We should have the ICBM before this decade...im not saying we should showcase it tomorrow but in the near future.

 

[Adux]

I think the timing now or in the recent future would be favorable because they need us to counter china. They need us more than we need them.

True, but then again after sometime we would be too big and and too far ahead to even bother about what they think. What we need their economy and military might now, after we get our initial boost, we dont need them anymore, as far as our threats are concerned our we have them covered, ICBM isnt going to be a game changer, if you are good chess player, how are you going to do it. We dont face a threat from USA short-medium term, we do from China. We will in the future be might possibly only possibly be against USA, while Pakistan and China is clear and present. Therefore I am not about to antagonize our allies.

All, the while America literally doesnt care, we have it or not, because they know we will at one point of time, so why oppose, and make a enemy, when they need us. So if they can be prudent and intelligent, why cant we.

On the international stage our reputation is as clean as it can get. We should have the ICBM before this decade...im not saying we should showcase it tomorrow but in the near future.

The moment we have china completely covered and we dont need any allies, that is time we go for uberdom, that is how, i will play it

 

[ajay_ijn]

we can also keep the missiles actual potential range under wraps, restrict the testing range to 7000 to 8000km

words of Air Chief Marshal PV Naik.

"India should pursue an ICBM program to acquire ranges of 10,000 kilometers [6,200 miles] or even more. Breaking out of the regional context is important as the country's sphere of influence grows. We have no territorial designs on any country, but India needs the capability to match its sphere of influence,"

"There's no point capping the missile program at 5,000 kilometers. If we have the technical capability, we should build on it,"

http://www.nti.org/gsn/article/india-should-develop-icbms-top-officer/

 

[Adux]

we can also keep the missiles actual potential range under wraps, restrict the testing range to 7000 to 8000km

I think you are under estimating the intelligence of other world observers especially the americans, in front of them we are munna's at this game.

 

[KS]

I think you are under estimating the intelligence of other world observers especially the americans, in front of them we are munna's at this game.

Never underestimate India too.

After all we did the nuke explosion right under their nose and they did not see it coming.

 

[ajay_ijn]

I think you are under estimating the intelligence of other world observers especially the americans, in front of them we are munna's at this game.

We are able to keep somethings classified, take the ATV Project for instance or the Sagarika missile. There are always means to misguide
and not alarm anyone.
Uncle is not same as she was in 1990s. If US continued the same diplomatic pressure to put an hold on Agni program, even the present progress would have been difficult. US is happy to see India adhering to MTCR Guidelines unilaterally. Things have changed with nuclear deal, realization India is not a rogue nation in anyway as far as proliferation.

 

[sayareakd]

If we can reach moon with some degree of accuracy, then i dont think any spot in the world would be unreachable, we dont have operational ICBM at the present but that does not means that those who are in same business dont know what we are capable of doing, A4 reaching 900 km in height and reaching same range as A3 is good example of what we can do.

 

[Adux]

If we can reach moon with some degree of accuracy, then i dont think any spot in the world would be unreachable, we dont have operational ICBM at the present but that does not means that those who are in same business dont know what we are capable of doing, A4 reaching 900 km in height and reaching same range as A3 is good example of what we can do.

Its two different tech, A PSLV takes 2 weeks to prepare for launch. While a Agni 3 takes 30 minutes.

 

[Adux]

We are able to keep somethings classified, take the ATV Project for instance or the Sagarika missile. There are always means to misguide
and not alarm anyone.
Uncle is not same as she was in 1990s. If US continued the same diplomatic pressure to put an hold on Agni program, even the present progress would have been difficult. US is happy to see India adhering to MTCR Guidelines unilaterally. Things have changed with nuclear deal, realization India is not a rogue nation in anyway as far as proliferation.

Ajay,

I agree with you,

But we cannot hide from the US, if we are going to test the said missile. I expect Wheeler Island to be completely in satellite watch by many countries

 

[hit&run]

We need deep space network of satellites immune to any external interference before having ICBMs or to have effective second strike capability. Tossing missiles to another corner of the earth accurately is totally another science than sending a Geo stationery satellite on the watch over the subcontinent.

So lets wait a bit more.

 

[ajay_ijn]

Ajay,

I agree with you,

But we cannot hide from the US, if we are going to test the said missile. I expect Wheeler Island to be completely in satellite watch by many countries

no the test is not supposed to be secret or the tested range of missile. but the potential range of missile.

 

[Yusuf]

no the test is not supposed to be secret or the tested range of missile. but the potential range of missile.

That is why India has never tested any missile to full range. A4 went up 900km up for 3000 km range? There is more juice in A4 I think and there will be more to just 5000kms in A5

 

[Yusuf]

Indian missile program has thrown in many surprises over the last few years. Shaurya, Prahar, ABM. No one knew about its existence. A lot of secrecy is there and I am fully convinced that the govt is giving wrong info so that world powers are not antagonized for what is still Indian affairs but out govt wants to keep a low profile. May be they have learned a bit from the Chinis who prefer to lie low.