After PoK, India turns focus on Balochistan

[raja696]

Precisely. Thats why i pointed out the obvious flaw in the current path, but if Doval has a good plan, then so be it.

What I believe, we are lacking is going out of this Pandora box that you are insisting in staying inn, aren't we doing what u said being mum on openly supporting baloch. What have we achieved? nothing . There is a flaw I believe sir. Please correct me or improvise below:

Steps to achieve before covert operations:

1)Achieve Legitimacy(From human right violations, Historic relations, Disputes, Wars, Terrorism, Mass migrations, propaganda, Green peace documentaries ).


2) Achieve Cause (Reasons:Military brutality, Suffering, Denial of freedom, autonomy, Religious freedom, slavery, Mass killings against humanity)



3)covert support (Weapons, Finance, training, Expertise in covert warfare, morale, Intelligence)



4)Uprising (Time to realize what you want to reap and how much you want)



5)Civil war (Making a point to countries like china that this will spill over in to there Tibet if China backs Pakistan on balouch cause and pressurize china to back off).



6) Military interventions, establishing democracy or military Bloch junta with its clear boundaries with pakijabis. All military equipment and training is supplied openly like usa does to (Israel vs palestine).



Now majority here supports covert support, what will happen if the covert operations exposed? India is doomed. In such case we need 1)legitimacy, 2)cause telling internationally. We are rightful party having locus stand i of the Bloch cause in the UN. We have to achieve these two points legitimacy and cause before covert operations(which we are clearly lacking. I believe recent move by India supporting Bloch leaders openly is to achieve this legitimacy). That's how pakis has earned there right to raise Kashmir openly knowingly or unknowing through wars, terrorism, self victimization, propaganda. Where they are stuck? Covert support, and we are tough resistance to pakis to go beyond this point.


Its important India to earn and win legitimacy and cause for Bloch before our intelligence resources invest in covert support deeply. Doing so we got more options to maneuver for supporting Bloch freedom struggle in different mediums.

 

[Screambowl]

I believe we can do much more damage covertly than by hosting events for balochi leaders or making public statements. I hope Doval is using his experience and punching where it hurts Paki's more. This game has to be fought covertly away from media introspection(no need of chest thumping like Pakis until we are ready for finish).

Damage only unites Pakistanis. Damage by their Army separates Pakistanis. We need to show them that Paki Army is culprit in Balochistan to increase the support from Balochis sitting abroad.

 

[Illusive]

What I believe, we are lacking is going out of this Pandora box that you are insisting in staying inn, aren't we doing what u said being mum on openly supporting baloch. What have we achieved? nothing . There is a flaw I believe sir. Please correct me or improvise below:

Steps to achieve before covert operations:

1)Achieve Legitimacy(From human right violations, Historic relations, Disputes, Wars, Terrorism, Mass migrations, propaganda, Green peace documentaries ).


2) Achieve Cause (Reasons:Military brutality, Suffering, Denial of freedom, autonomy, Religious freedom, slavery, Mass killings against humanity)



3)covert support (Weapons, Finance, training, Expertise in covert warfare, morale, Intelligence)



4)Uprising (Time to realize what you want to reap and how much you want)



5)Civil war (Making a point to countries like china that this will spill over in to there Tibet if China backs Pakistan on balouch cause and pressurize china to back off).



6) Military interventions, establishing democracy or military Bloch junta with its clear boundaries with pakijabis. All military equipment and training is supplied openly like usa does to (Israel vs palestine).



Now majority here supports covert support, what will happen if the covert operations exposed? India is doomed. In such case we need 1)legitimacy, 2)cause telling internationally. We are rightful party having locus stand i of the Bloch cause in the UN. We have to achieve these two points legitimacy and cause before covert operations(which we are clearly lacking. I believe recent move by India supporting Bloch leaders openly is to achieve this legitimacy). That's how pakis has earned there right to raise Kashmir openly knowingly or unknowing through wars, terrorism, self victimization, propaganda. Where they are stuck? Covert support, and we are tough resistance to pakis to go beyond this point.


Its important India to earn and win legitimacy and cause for Bloch before our intelligence resources invest in covert support deeply. Doing so we got more options to maneuver for supporting Bloch freedom struggle in different mediums.

You have raised valid points and i agree there. But i disagree at the part where you compare pak's kashmir pitch at UN. You see unlike India, pak doesn't care for much of human rights or its image since its already destroyed. Nobody listens to their crying anyway.

You made a good point of legitimise the movement. But this case is not as simple as it looks. You see Iran also has Baloch problem too and might be legitimately concerned of any such thing spilling inside their side too, at a time when we are trying to reach CAsia through Chabhar.

Our global standing should be strong enough backed with political will to actually pull this off, which i think its not there yet. So in a bid to actually do something good we might end up killing the movement itself. Its important first that our bases are covered.

 

[hit&run]

Baluchistan will be separated from the clutches of these Punjabi fanatics. We will hit these people where it hurt the most.

I am glad the cowardly pussy footer Congi regime is thrown out. Pakistani apologist and many insignificant Pakistanis living in India will cry on this but current government is going to press the paddle that was long due.

 

[Nicky G]

If the Indian establishment and the entrenched one in the south block in particular are getting out of the Baloch closet, it's great news. As over cautious as these guys tend to be, I don't see any of this happening without a serious game plan.

We must never equate Kashmir and Baloch in the international scene. Kashmir is ours no matter what, while we want Baloch to break away - more like we want Pak to balkanize further and Baloch is a convenient tool.

For now, we must increasingly publicize atrocities in Baloch and provide covert support to the freedom fighters there. We must keep it simmering and not let it reach the boiling point, till we are confident in our over all ability to handle all outcomes for an ultimate breakup of Pak - I'd say we are a decade to two away from that, economically, militarily and geo-politically.

Last but not the least, we have to be cautious of the Afghan and Iranian angle to what would be a complete Baloch - we don't what to take it that far do we.

As for Pakis crying about India support to Baloch in UN, let them, no one gives two hoots for their bitching.

 

[raja696]

You have raised valid points and i agree there. But i disagree at the part where you compare pak's kashmir pitch at UN. You see unlike India, pak doesn't care for much of human rights or its image since its already destroyed. Nobody listens to their crying anyway.

You made a good point of legitimise the movement. But this case is not as simple as it looks. You see Iran also has Baloch problem too and might be legitimately concerned of any such thing spilling inside their side too, at a time when we are trying to reach CAsia through Chabhar.

Our global standing should be strong enough backed with political will to actually pull this off, which i think its not there yet. So in a bid to actually do something good we might end up killing the movement itself. Its important first that our bases are covered.

Yes I agree regarding Paki kashmir pitch at UN with your view. I didnt mean that way but just didnt mentioned that point. This also adds to pak claim void as they internalized only in propaganda through war, terrorism in wrong ways. Basically they dont have real claim except thumping thats in there fcuked up vein and brain. But India does have valid reasons and concern in Baluchistan and Pok. Thats what separates Real claims vs dummy claims in roots ie India vs paki in this scenario.

So India dont need to think twice, just have to do what is right thing. That is what our neighbors are looking in to India as regional leader. Thats what Aung San Suu Kyi said recently India in past mulled supporting democracy in Myanmar as its afraid of hampering military junta relations there.

Yes regarding legitimacy Iran has also got its responsibility. What I mean is before going into support for covert, civilian war etc we have to legitimize this balouch issue not only in favour of India but also help Iran and other partners realize there responsibility by internationalizing this baloch cause. If we are successful Iran will fall in our chants. Then the tamasha starts (covert operations etc). As you said until we legitimize, establish cause internationally these two basic things its important to hold our bases are covered and up en running.

But when we will do that its time to learn to run before we walk.

 

[DFI_COAS]

What a stupid move.

Baloch population is just around 14 million. Pakis and Chinese who are masters of changing demographics can easily turn this over forever by pumping Punjabis with support of their army from all around Pakistan. Baloch Freedom Movement will be lost forever if our govt does something like this.

Stay away and let us rebuild Afghanistan. The next Mukthi Bahini must come from there. Not India.

 

[I_PLAY_BAD]

I've mixed feelings about this, this move will give confidence to the baloch people and some hope of India echoing their thoughts in UN, but India's support shouldn't waver, meaning strong political backing.
But it also gives the paki army the opportunity to use this open support of India as proof that India is supporting "blaah blaah blaah" "mortal enemy blaah blaah blaah", and use it garner support in their country for further violence against the baloch people.
So if we plan to support them, we better have a good plan or else they'll be carpet bombed and all we get are refugees like these.

I have a different opinion. India must officially support 'Baloch's peaceful struggle' like Pakistan is acknowledging its support to 'Kashmiri's peaceful struggle'. So there is nothing Pakistan can do in this except to go to war with India which they won't do.

 

[raja696]

What a stupid move.

Baloch population is just around 14 million. Pakis and Chinese who are masters of changing demographics can easily turn this over forever by pumping Punjabis with support of their army from all around Pakistan. Baloch Freedom Movement will be lost forever if our govt does something like this.

Stay away and let us rebuild Afghanistan. The next Mukthi Bahini must come from there. Not India.

pakistan is a failed state what mobilization ur talking about bro... if its so its another tuklaq move this time in pakistan thats what we want .... pakistan in 3 pieces have no peace any where in there land. We welcome that ? what say.

 

[sorcerer]

These pakis will never learn...Whenever the paki porks highlight the Kashmir issue ..Indian agencies can play the Baloch Issue better and awesome than paki porks in the international community.

Here, the pakis will lose much more than their face in the international community over Kashmir.

 

[sorcerer]

Pak is geographically only 300 miles wide :: India's swift Cold Start can cut Pakistan within a day

Pakistan is geographically narrow, with a length of approximately 1000 miles but an average width of not more than 300 miles. If you were a tourist driving an SUV, unhindered, you could start at Jaisalmer after an early 7 am breakfast, stop over for a late lunch at Quetta, Balochistan at 3 pm and be in Spin Buldak, Afghanistan by 6 pm. You would need to refuel your vehicle only on reaching Afghanistan.

https://majorgauravarya.wordpress.com/2016/09/11/cold-start/

 

[ezsasa]

Pak is geographically only 300 miles wide :: India's swift Cold Start can cut Pakistan within a day

Pakistan is geographically narrow, with a length of approximately 1000 miles but an average width of not more than 300 miles. If you were a tourist driving an SUV, unhindered, you could start at Jaisalmer after an early 7 am breakfast, stop over for a late lunch at Quetta, Balochistan at 3 pm and be in Spin Buldak, Afghanistan by 6 pm. You would need to refuel your vehicle only on reaching Afghanistan.

https://majorgauravarya.wordpress.com/2016/09/11/cold-start/

Read this yesterday, few points from my side:

1) major arya is definitely helping the cause by writing on complex issues in a layman's language. For once MSM narrative is being built from security forces POV.

2) while we are talking about CSD, one factor that is yet to be discussed is how to handle hybrid warfare after crossing the border. We have to consider the fact that gun culture is prevalent in pakiland. It is fairly easy for pakis to organise Adhoc militias, which will big down advancing forces.

 

[sorcerer]

2) while we are talking about CSD, one factor that is yet to be discussed is how to handle hybrid warfare after crossing the border. We have to consider the fact that gun culture is prevalent in pakiland. It is fairly easy for pakis to organise Adhoc militias, which will big down advancing forces.

This already we know as "NON STATE ACTORS". IMO this would be vectored in very well into Our Doctrine as we know how the PoK came into being using militias.
pakis are known to mix militias with regular army.

 

[ezsasa]

This already we know as "NON STATE ACTORS". IMO this would be vectored in very well into Our Doctrine as we know how the PoK came into being using militias.
pakis are known to mix militias with regular army.

I raised that point because, so far none of the larger military exercises seem to be focussed on built up areas simulating villages and towns.

It would be similar to what Americans faced in Iraq, and they did not do so well even with all their superior tech.

 

[Kshatriya87]

1,200 unclaimed bodies recovered in Balochistan, Pak Senate committee expresses concern
Last Updated: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 09:23

Islamabad: The Committee on Human Rights in the Pakistan Senate has expressed serious concern over the recovery of 1,200 unclaimed bodies from Balochistan.

In a recent statement, the committee, which was chaired by Muttahida Qaumi Movementleader Nasreen Jalil, said that this revelation was a stinging indictment of the state and showed that the people did not trust the state and its institutions.

Members of the committee called for a comprehensive briefing from the director-general of Pakistan Rangers on Balochistan and on the dumping of unclaimed bodies in its next meeting.

Police sources have reportedly told the committee that as many as 545 people had been killed in 2014-15 and 2015-16.

The committee sought a detailed year-wise report on such deaths in the province.

The police are under instructions from the Supreme Court to conduct DNA tests of the unclaimed bodies and to assist the missing persons` families for identification.

Police said that they did not conduct the tests because nobody has showed up to claim any of the dead bodies so far.

Over the past month and a half, prominent Baloch leaders have repeatedly expressed their concern and helplessness over what they describe as the atrocities of the Pakistan`s military in Balochistan, and maintained that the situation in the province is graver than usual.

Baloch Republican Party Founding Chief Brahmudagh Bugti has alleged that people are migrating from the province because of violence in the region, as atrocities have increased over time and said the situation has to be monitored more thoroughly to know the exact status of the people.

He said that people disappear and are killed on a daily basis and claimed that this has been a regular affair since 2010.

Bugti said that they were trying to garner help from everywhere, including human rights organizations and NGOs to make them aware of the situation in Balochistan.

Representative of Balochistan at UNHRC and EU Mehran Marri has also expressed similar sentiments, saying that recently the Chief of Army Staff, General Raheel Sharif, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and others had a meeting and that they had agreed on a National Action Plan, but now, it was clear that the meeting was held to strategise on ways to isolate Baloch activists and the population from the rest of Pakistan.

 

[sorcerer]

I raised that point because, so far none of the larger military exercises seem to be focussed on built up areas simulating villages and towns.

It would be similar to what Americans faced in Iraq, and they did not do so well even with all their superior tech.

Interesting

How Hybrid Warfare Could Change Asia

Asia is also likely to become more vulnerable from the emergence of hybrid warfare because of its territorial disputes. Russia’s use of hybrid war is a solid blueprint for the way in which a State can wage war without actually waging war. That is, it uses a spectrum of tactics to attack the adversary, but no single attack is severe or traceable enough for Russia to be considered a belligerent. International law offers a certain boundary that a State would have to cross for its actions to be deemed as an act of war. Hybrid warfare allows states to launch a multi-pronged strategy, where they can attack without quite crossing that threshold. By staying within this boundary, Russia has been able to wage war without any retaliation from NATO.

A similar strategy could be magnified in Asia, where there is even less of a cooperative security framework than in Europe. Since the traditional definition of war is so outdated, it would be relatively easy for China or India to utilize the Russian model in order to interfere in the affairs of their smaller neighbors, knowing that there can be no legal or military response.
http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/how-hybrid-warfare-could-change-asia/

Hybrid tactics: Russia and the West
http://www.iss.europa.eu/uploads/media/Alert_46_Hybrid_Russia.pdf

 

[cobra commando]

Mobile app, website for AIR's Baluchi service launched

 

[sorcerer]

Baloch Activist Naela Qadri Baloch In Delhi To Form Government-In-Exile


Naela Qadri Baloch reached New Delhi today to garner support for setting up a Baloch government-in-exile. Looking forward to meet political leaders to garner support to form a Baloch government-in-exile: Naela Baloch

Baloch was received at the Indira Gandhi International Airport by her son who reached New Delhi in August.

Baluchistan has witnessed a long-running insurgency for which Islamabad blames New Delhi.
Baloch writer Naela Qadri Baloch, a long-time campaigner for Baluchistan's independence from Pakistan, arrived here today with a view to set up a Baloch government-in-exile.
Baloch, who waited for almost three months to get an Indian visa, came to Delhi from Kabul where she lives. "I am very happy to be here. I look forward to my stay in Delhi for a week and then travel to other cities," Baloch told IANS. "I have multiple engagements in Delhi. I am looking forward to meet a number of political leaders here to garner support to form a Baloch government-in-exile," she added.

IN DELHI TO GARNER SUPPORT
She was received at the Indira Gandhi International Airport by her son Mazdak Dilshad Baloch, who reached New Delhi in August, and several other Baloch activists. Mazdak Baloch told IANS, "My mother will take part in several seminars and programs on the Baloch movement. She will meet people in the government to seek support for our campaign."


Several Baloch leaders from Pakistan and from other countries have begun visiting New Delhi since Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in his Independence Day address of August 15, highlighted the Baloch issue.
Baluchistan, Pakistan's largest province in terms of area, has witnessed a long-running insurgency for which Islamabad blames New Delhi.
Source>>

 

[Mikesingh]

For those who want to know the reality of Balochistan......

How Balochistan became a part of Pakistan – a historical perspective

The true history of Balochistan is never shared or talked about among the general public of Pakistan.

Link below. A must read!

http://nation.com.pk/blogs/05-Dec-2...e-a-part-of-pakistan-a-historical-perspective

 

[Nicky G]

Interesting

How Hybrid Warfare Could Change Asia

Asia is also likely to become more vulnerable from the emergence of hybrid warfare because of its territorial disputes. Russia’s use of hybrid war is a solid blueprint for the way in which a State can wage war without actually waging war. That is, it uses a spectrum of tactics to attack the adversary, but no single attack is severe or traceable enough for Russia to be considered a belligerent. International law offers a certain boundary that a State would have to cross for its actions to be deemed as an act of war. Hybrid warfare allows states to launch a multi-pronged strategy, where they can attack without quite crossing that threshold. By staying within this boundary, Russia has been able to wage war without any retaliation from NATO.

A similar strategy could be magnified in Asia, where there is even less of a cooperative security framework than in Europe. Since the traditional definition of war is so outdated, it would be relatively easy for China or India to utilize the Russian model in order to interfere in the affairs of their smaller neighbors, knowing that there can be no legal or military response.
http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/how-hybrid-warfare-could-change-asia/

Hybrid tactics: Russia and the West
http://www.iss.europa.eu/uploads/media/Alert_46_Hybrid_Russia.pdf

Our main focus has to be undermine CPEC and raise the cost the for the Chini as much as possible to throw their returns all out of whack.

The problem is PoK is not invading it or even with the Paki forces, its with the people in PoK who are now mostly Punjabi and will be anti-India. I haven't seen to clear cut plan to deal with this. We can't be seen butchering all these people or deporting them to Pak en-mass.

Thus, I see reclaiming PoK will come after Pak has been balkanized. Baloch and Sindh have to come first.