ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[patriots]

Trouble for LCA Tejas as price shock sends Indian Air Force running to the MoD. Committee now ordered to review what IAF describes as "unusually high price, higher than even Su-30 & comparable imported jets".
https://twitter.com/livefist?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

nothing for trouble for tejas..trouble for hal......

tejas will be produced.... no one can stop .....

 

[rohit b3]

Sitamaraman is massive failure. She came and spoke big, but she is ruining all the hard work done by Parrikar.
Now correct me if im wrong -
463 crores is 67 mil$ per fighter, which is likely with all accessories.

In comparision, this is the Gripen E's cost -https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/brazil-finalises-468bn-gripen-ng-deal-416586/
4.68 bil$ for 36 fighters, or 130 mil$ per fighter


F-16 cost -https://thediplomat.com/2016/06/us-pakistan-f-16-deal-is-dead-islamabad-mulling-jordan-f-16-fighter-jets-instead/
Pakistan was expected to pay $700 million instead of the original $270 million for the eight F-16 fighter jets
Thats 87.5 mil$ per fighter

Offcourse then there's our great Rafale deal - 220 mil$ per fighter.

And comparision with the Su-30MKI Deal? The Deal was signed for 140 Su-30MKI with HAL in the year 2000. Do you really think a deal in the year 2000 and 18 years later in 2018 will have the same value of money?

And now Sitaraman is actually falling for this crap and making a committe and stuff, delaying it further. And in a couple of months, IAF would be all interested in buying some 100 foriegn fighters in some 15-20 Bil$ deal, that is 150-200 mil$ per fighter.

 

[Chirag]

Sitamaraman is massive failure. She came and spoke big, but she is ruining all the hard work done by Parrikar.
Now correct me if im wrong -
463 crores is 67 mil$ per fighter, which is likely with all accessories.

In comparision, this is the Gripen E's cost -https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/brazil-finalises-468bn-gripen-ng-deal-416586/
4.68 bil$ for 36 fighters, or 130 mil$ per fighter


F-16 cost -https://thediplomat.com/2016/06/us-pakistan-f-16-deal-is-dead-islamabad-mulling-jordan-f-16-fighter-jets-instead/
Pakistan was expected to pay $700 million instead of the original $270 million for the eight F-16 fighter jets
Thats 87.5 mil$ per fighter

Offcourse then there's our great Rafale deal - 220 mil$ per fighter.

And comparision with the Su-30MKI Deal? The Deal was signed for 140 Su-30MKI with HAL in the year 2000. Do you really think a deal in the year 2000 and 18 years later in 2018 will have the same value of money?

And now Sitaraman is actually falling for this crap and making a committe and stuff, delaying it further. And in a couple of months, IAF would be all interested in buying some 100 foriegn fighters in some 15-20 Bil$ deal, that is 150-200 mil$ per fighter.

This is not the matter of failure of Tejas or high price. All these dramas are under the well designed plot for entrance of Adani with Gripin in defence

 

[WolfPack86]

Just buy Tejas for God sake this is my kind request to Defence ministry.

 

[darshan978]

This is not the matter of failure of Tejas or high price. All these dramas are under the well designed plot for entrance of Adani with Gripin in defence

yep 100% agree man this high price issue is also looks made up and paid journos are doing their best job to stop tejas production they dont see gripen-c price at 60 million dollars but they have problem when tejas price at this point its clearly biased paid journalism and cooked media stories

 

[Chirag]

yep 100% agree man this high price issue is also looks made up and paid journos are doing their best job to stop tejas production they dont see gripen-c price at 60 million dollars but they have problem when tejas price at this point its clearly biased paid journalism and cooked media stories

Nowadays our country facing two big issues
1. Paid journalism
2. Too much talkative politics

 

[WolfPack86]

And this is how #Tejas will meet the fate of marut !
https://twitter.com/hashtag/tejas?lang=en

 

[patriots]

And this is how #Tejas will meet the fate of marut !
https://twitter.com/hashtag/tejas?lang=en

bhai nothing will happen..... govt ....hal...drdo all has invested heavily. in this project. .....just keep calm your self .........

as I had said before. we have sister projects like......kaveri...........uttam aesa.......tejas will survive ..
hal will try its best ..coz hal has already invested for second production line. .. .....

so keep calm .......and think if tejas price will be lower. then this will be great. .....dalal will fell asleep.. as they won't have any other excuses.,..,.., to show tejas is. this. that....

 

[Prashant12]

No major glitch for IAF-HAL-MoD. But Yes for the media. Because in India defence deals & related matters are 'decided' by media Things will be sorted out, price will change & you'll soon see screaming headlines: 1) MoD shoots down Tejas prices 2) IAF wins price war over Tejas

 

[dumdumdum]

Just curious..

When people arrive at Tejas's cost or for that matter any indigenous product, how do they do an apples to apples comparison vis a vis foreign products?

Especially when the product is being developed by a DPSU the money just comes out of one pocket of government & goes into other. So shouldn't the amount that goes back into government pocket e.g. HAL dividends to the government, income tax paid by HAL employees, Income Tax, GST paid by all the suppliers , shouldn't all this be subtracted from what IAF pays to HAL to get net cost?

And how do they model things like ease of integrating weapons sourced from different countries on a desi platform since we have access to all the IP/source code?

How do they account for all the benefits like developing a Kaveri & Uttam which may not be directly benefited by Tejas but have a huge spin off effect?

How do they model costs of sanctions if the product is imported?

The obsession with a single , raw per aircraft cost comes across as rather silly.

As part of my BSchool course our operations prof used to say ...
"The key strategy for developing cost effective product that wins in the market is to fire all cost accountants ..and make them join your competition.."

 

[Enquirer]

Just curious..

When people arrive at Tejas's cost or for that matter any indigenous product, how do they do an apples to apples comparison vis a vis foreign products?

Especially when the product is being developed by a DPSU the money just comes out of one pocket of government & goes into other. So shouldn't the amount that goes back into government pocket e.g. HAL dividends to the government, income tax paid by HAL employees, Income Tax, GST paid by all the suppliers , shouldn't all this be subtracted from what IAF pays to HAL to get net cost?

And how do they model things like ease of integrating weapons sourced from different countries on a desi platform since we have access to all the IP/source code?

How do they account for all the benefits like developing a Kaveri & Uttam which may not be directly benefited by Tejas but have a huge spin off effect?

How do they model costs of sanctions if the product is imported?

The obsession with a single , raw per aircraft cost comes across as rather silly.

As part of my BSchool course our operations prof used to say ...
"The key strategy for developing cost effective product that wins in the market is to fire all cost accountants ..and make them join your competition.."

Most of what u said is very true.
Only issue is that the money (even though sanctioned by govt) comes out of MoD’s fixed/finite budget. Unless the forces can be reasssured that the increased revenues collected (&decreased depletion of foreign reserves) will be ploughed back into their future budgets, the forces will be anxious of the costs! (The continual decrease in defence budget as a % of GDP does not allay the fears)
Unfortunate thing is as far as the forces are concerned they write out the same checks irrespective of who the vendor is!
There definitely needs to be economics lessons imparted to all and also have better long term financial planning!

 

[Armand2REP]

Just curious..

When people arrive at Tejas's cost or for that matter any indigenous product, how do they do an apples to apples comparison vis a vis foreign products?

Especially when the product is being developed by a DPSU the money just comes out of one pocket of government & goes into other. So shouldn't the amount that goes back into government pocket e.g. HAL dividends to the government, income tax paid by HAL employees, Income Tax, GST paid by all the suppliers , shouldn't all this be subtracted from what IAF pays to HAL to get net cost?

And how do they model things like ease of integrating weapons sourced from different countries on a desi platform since we have access to all the IP/source code?

How do they account for all the benefits like developing a Kaveri & Uttam which may not be directly benefited by Tejas but have a huge spin off effect?

How do they model costs of sanctions if the product is imported?

The obsession with a single , raw per aircraft cost comes across as rather silly.

As part of my BSchool course our operations prof used to say ...
"The key strategy for developing cost effective product that wins in the market is to fire all cost accountants ..and make them join your competition.."

Money will always benefit someone no matter where it is spent. The question is are the Indian taxpayers getting what they payed for. If you get something you didn't order you send it back, if the waiter tells you it is a spin-off dish you would laugh in his face. The government issued a purchase order, if they don't get what they ordered they should find suppliers that can get the job done the same as you will shop at the place that can get you what you need, not what you didn't order.

 

[stew98]

This paid hit job started as soon as MMRCA 2 was announced. Once again foreign lobbie's sleeper cells are activated.

 

[Sancho]

now iaf wants a quartz radome ...in foc variants.........

a......................
..

That's not news, but old. ADAs radome was bad because the materials didn't allowed the radar to be used at optimal performance. That's why years ago ADA issued a tender to foreign OEMs to provide a radome for licence production and Cobham won including the supply of the IFR probe =>

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/13...In_Flight_Refueling_Probe_For_India___s_Tejas

 

[Sancho]

By the way, the idea of concurrency (beginning production and continuing development as you go along) is quite a standard feature of modern fighter projects.

The key word is "development"! It's normal to produce a block upgrade and start "developing" the next one. It's not normal to start producing an upgrade, that is not fully developed and certified, with the hope, that the certification happens during the production time.

 

[Sancho]

Sitamaraman is massive failure. She came and spoke big, but she is ruining all the hard work done by Parrikar.
Now correct me if im wrong -
463 crores is 67 mil$ per fighter, which is likely with all accessories.

Are you just repeating the same stuff again?
https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...-news-and-discussions.1/page-835#post-1438151

 

[Aghore_King]

IMO, Govt will try to bring the price in range of 25-30 million dollars and then will order hundreds of Tejas jets.

 

[Chinmoy]

Indian Air Force is Evaluating Advanced Israeli Weapon Systems

https://i-hls.com/archives/84288

 

[stew98]

I hope it's for MK2 and not MK1/S. Otherwise endless saga of testing and certification will begin and one more reason for IAF to delay FOC. That's what they have done so far. MOD or PMO have to take direct control of LCA program, otherwise fate of LCA wont be different from that of Marut.

Indian Air Force is Evaluating Advanced Israeli Weapon Systems

https://i-hls.com/archives/84288

 

[Kshithij]

I hope it's for MK2 and not MK1/S. Otherwise endless saga of testing and certification will begin and one more reason for IAF to delay FOC. That's what they have done so far. MOD or PMO have to take direct control of LCA program, otherwise fate of LCA wont be different from that of Marut.

Whatever will be integrated with Tejas MK1A will also be integrated with MK2 and AMCA. The integration code is modular and is transferable. So, the development cost and time for MK1A will be directly reducing development cost and time of MK2