ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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Soumya1989

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Dr K Tamilmani ( Chief Controller R&D (Aero)) in Tarmak007 (Facebook page)

Some of the answers for your questions

1) LCA Mk1 production rate is said to be 16 aircrafts per-year, at present are there any plans to increase the production rate of LCA Mk1 ?

Dr: The current efforts are to increase the production facility to 16 a/c per year. It will become a reality from 2016.

2) Sir what are the future intended platforms for redeveloped Kaveri-GTX ?

We are not planning any new platform. Our focus is on resolving tech challenges on kavevri engine and prove it to be a successful Indian engine.

3) Sir......our spending on defense is less in that expenditure on R&D too little what is your view on fund shortage. some projects are doing really good & some are in sick condition, what measures are taken for sick projects

Funds shortages never delayed Indian def R&D. We are happy with the support. With an increase allocation we will be able to take up more prog. We need fund augmentation to undertake technology projects. Our govt is considering our proposals.

4) Sir, When the country can expect AMCA to be fully operational keeping in mind that ADA is fully committed to TEJAS LCA MKII and what are your suggestion for HAL to augment in manufacturing facility to 20-25 aircraft per year .

We are in the initial stages of project definition of AMCA. Any program of this nature requires 10 years. We are going to see the AMCA around 2020.

5) what is the status of naval lca? Are all issues for naval LCA sorted out?when will np2 fly?

All the design issues on lca navy has been completed. any issues arising out of flight testing will be addressed.NP2 will be flying much before this year end.

6) Good evng Sir......What about satus of electronic Warfare nd laser guns.Is DRDO doing any projects on it ?

Now it is jointly mandated that EW systems for our military applications will be totally indigeniised. Many of our programs on EW are already successfully realised and integrated onto the fliying platforms and naval platforms.

7) Sir, what do u think about d participation of private firms in R&D, like d American aero industry???

We need the backing of pvt firms to take Indian R&D to greater heights. Efforts are being put to make them understand the complex nature of defence R&D. It's a matter of time before they too join in all our major progs.In multiple programs we have already integrated private vendors in the R&D.

8) Hello, could you please provide some details with respect to the Tejas Mk.2 in terms of timelines and specific features and how it could compare to Gripen NG. Thanks

LCA MK2 design phase is completed. We are in the process of releasing drawings for production and the program is jointly progressed along with the users.

9) Sir...have the GE 414 engines for LCA arrived? Will np3, np4 proptotypes GE 414 powered?

Yes!

10) Any info on lch?

LCH is on advanced stage of flight testing for certification. one of the best products with proven ALH technologies.

11) Good evening Mr.DG
What is the benefit of having single engine air warrio (LCA)r over multi engine aircraft?? I guess its more prone to any single hit than to dual engine aircraft!! apart from economical solution, please specify


High performance aircraft with large weapon carrying capability and operational range requires twin engine of high thrust class. It has its own advantage of redundancy and a complexity of managing it during flight operations.

12) What is the total speed of tejas and will it be increased in tejas mk2?I have heard that tejas has speeds of upto mach1.6 ,is it true?

We have demostrated 1.6 M in LCA and the it is also the same for MK2

13) Can LCA mk2 make it to production by 2017 ? When will be the first flight?

We will initiate first flight in 2017 and production in 2019.

14) Russia has always been an ally to us,can't we engage in many more projects with Russia and learn much from them for our future projects like China does ?they seem very willing for partnership than western counterparts.

Yes. What you said is a fact. We are already integrating for joint working in our engine development prog.

15) Sir, why there is no news about second test of nirbhay CM?

You will shortly hear about the same

16) Sir, there are news regarding wind tunnel/engine test bed facilities with the help of Boeing, any info you would like to share?

We are already in talks with Boeing for setting up wind tunnel and high-altitude engine test facilities.

17) Which aviation technology , according to you is currently giving the biggest headache to DRDO . For ex, for ISRO it probably was the cryo engine, anything similar and sharable for DRDO

Aero engine development

18) When will light utility/observation helicopter project be finished and enter production.

Prototype is getting ready for various ground test and expected to start flying during the second half of next year. It is feasible to complete the certfication trails in two years.

19) Hello, If Rafale deal is through then what kind of TOT would DRDO like to have from Framce that could be used for Tejas Mk.2 and future product

TOT is always for the industry and not with DRDO.

20) sir, We are developing indigenous Aesa for LCA mk2, what's the status?

The design phase is cocmpleted. Many of the past products like TR modules can be used here for realising the AESA. The flying test bed that drdo plans to acquire will accelerate the devlopment

21) i want to ask u tat.....wy india is nt able to devlop its indegenous jet tainer.....wat is the main reason of causing this....thank you sir...

We have developed trainer in the past. and the current trainer will be indicted in the during the first half of the next year. Limited Series Production is already launched.

22) Sir, what is the excact status of IJT Sitara? Why DRDO is failed to supply it to IAF before dedline? can u pl elaborate.

There are some tech issues which emerged during flight testing. The solution is in sight. the certification should be in by Dec.

23) what about our kaveri engine project?will it be ok to the time of amca?

may not be possible. Use of kaveri for AMCA as the thrust requiremnts are different. But kaveri has potential for other programs in India.

24) Gud Evening Sir, what is ur opinion about Reverse Engineering? which china is Doing.

I have realised that reverse engg is more complex that abinitio development. :cheesy:

25) Also what's the status for Kaveri? Is it true India going to develope 75-110kn class turbofan?

Kaveri is in the testing phases for endurance and reliability with multiple prototypes for certification process. We hope to succeed in 2 years after completing the airworthiness tests.

26) Good evening Dr. Tamilmani: When will we see the Rustom get inducted in the forces?

Rustom is in the initial taxing test stage we may commencce develpoment flights this year by 2018 we hope to complete the certification for induction into service

27) Respected Sir, When will we see the DRDO ERJ 145 AEW&CS induction into IAF?

The testing flights are on. Possibly by this year we should have the first one getting inducted.
 

p2prada

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My source was right when I was told LCA Mk2 will be inducted post 2020 and not 2016 as was the previous date.
 

SajeevJino

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ersakthivel

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My source was right when I was told LCA Mk2 will be inducted post 2020 and not 2016 as was the previous date.
did your source also tell you that mk-2 too will have a top speed of mach 1.6?
 

ersakthivel

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'Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft by 2018' - The New Indian Express
The product design work of Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft has been started by the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) and the vehicle is expected to be ready in 2018, Dr Tamilmani, Director General (Aeronautical Systems) DRDO, Bangalore has said.
AMCA ready by 2018!!!!, We need to watch this space.

if it is true AMCA may follow tejas mk-2 very closely into production.

Also for LCA mk-2-- he says that ,"We will initiate first flight in 2017 and production in 2019" in tarmak007 live chat.

Also he says LCA mk-2 is going to be an EW platform, and for LRU s they are getting upto 80 percent local content.

And Astra will be on tejas mk-2 along with ASEA radar.

many components of ASEA radar are already designed and they can be used, and the acquisition of new flying test bed will speed up things.

regarding top speed for tejas mk-2 there is some lack of clarity. he has said that we have demonstrated mach 1.6 for tejas mk-1 and it will be the same for tejas mk-2 without mentioning service ceiling.

it is obvious that with higher powered engine tejas mk-2 will have a higher servcie ceiling.

So the topspeed mach 1.6 ,"demonstrated " for tejas mk-1 is at the service ceiling of tejas mk-1.

If tejas mk-2 is designed to have higher service ceiling the topspeed too will automatically increase even though tejas mk-2 has a top speed of mach 1.6 at the servicve ceiling altitude of tejas mk-1.

future info will clarify this issue i think,
 
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ersakthivel

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If tejas mk-2 is designed with higher service ceiling than 15 Km its top speed too will show a corresponding increase as top speeds normally increase with service ceiling..

Any way it is the G limit and STR along with ITR that we should watch out.

Since RAFALE itself has a topspeed of mach 1.8 , the topspeed of mach 1.6 at 15 Km is good enough for IAF.
 

Kunal Biswas

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2016 for first prototype and 2019 for Mass production of MK2 is quite good timeline, Given that by that time that MK1 will be in good numbers by that time..
 

shree835

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2016 for first prototype and 2019 for Mass production of MK2 is quite good timeline, Given that by that time that MK1 will be in good numbers by that time..
To reach mentioned deadline ...HAL came up with new production facility for Tejas.
 

Sea Eagle

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The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has said that the country should synergise the competences available to tide over the oft-repeated time and cost overrun concerns. DRDO Director-General (Aero) Dr K Tamilmani told Express in an interview that any Indian initiative would be supported so as to build a robust eco-system.

To a query on the unmanned aerial vehicle Rustom-II, he said currently the platform is undergoing initial taxing tests with the development flights likely to commence this year. "The entire certification process for its induction into the service should be over by 2018. Similarly, the Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft (EMB-145) is undergoing test flights and by the end of the year, we hope to have the first one inducted into the IAF," he said.
On the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, which was accorded the Initial Operational Clearance recently, he said the current efforts are pointed towards increasing the production rate to 16 aircraft per year. "It will be a reality by 2016 and we are confident of achieving the same. The Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd has set-up a state-of-the-art facility for the series production to ensure faster rate of production," he said.

According to him, the design phase for Tejas Mk-II programme has been completed, while the second prototype of naval LCA (NP2) is expected to fly before the end of the year. Saying that fund crunch has never been an issue for Indian R&D programmes, Tamilmani said: "Not a single project got delayed due to want of funds. With an increased allocation, we will be able to take up more programmes. It's but natural that fund augmentation will definitely aid technology projects."
 

Sea Eagle

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The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has said that the country should synergise the competences available to tide over the oft-repeated time and cost overrun concerns. DRDO Director-General (Aero) Dr K Tamilmani told Express in an interview that any Indian initiative would be supported so as to build a robust eco-system.

To a query on the unmanned aerial vehicle Rustom-II, he said currently the platform is undergoing initial taxing tests with the development flights likely to commence this year. "The entire certification process for its induction into the service should be over by 2018. Similarly, the Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft (EMB-145) is undergoing test flights and by the end of the year, we hope to have the first one inducted into the IAF," he said.
On the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, which was accorded the Initial Operational Clearance recently, he said the current efforts are pointed towards increasing the production rate to 16 aircraft per year. "It will be a reality by 2016 and we are confident of achieving the same. The Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd has set-up a state-of-the-art facility for the series production to ensure faster rate of production," he said.

According to him, the design phase for Tejas Mk-II programme has been completed, while the second prototype of naval LCA (NP2) is expected to fly before the end of the year. Saying that fund crunch has never been an issue for Indian R&D programmes, Tamilmani said: "Not a single project got delayed due to want of funds. With an increased allocation, we will be able to take up more programmes. It's but natural that fund augmentation will definitely aid technology projects."
 

p2prada

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His comments prove that funding was never an issue for LCA. All delays are purely technical in nature.
 

ersakthivel

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His comments prove that funding was never an issue for LCA. All delays are purely technical in nature.
mission creep by IAF besides funding delays were real and pointed out by other equally distinguished high govt officials as well.

If it was not for ratan TATA's intervention the UF govt in the ninties was simply in the mood to close down the entire program.

As a serving govt employee mr. tamil Mani is too polite to criticize the govt on this score, which is to be expected
 

makmohan

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Naval- LCA Completes first Supersonic Flight | idrw.org

According to Press Release by Aeronautical Development Agency ( ADA ) Developers of Light combat aircraft ( LCA ) they have informed that Naval-LCA NP-1 on 22-March-2014 successfully completed its first supersonic flight and according to sources close to idrw.org NP-1 achieved Mach 1.1 in its first supersonic flight .
Naval Prototype ( NP-1 ) was grounded for more than a year after its first flight in 27 April 2012 and at that point had carried out only Four flights during initial period of testing . NP-1 was later grounded to carry out weight reduction measures on undercarriage and also to fix issues with its landing gears
NP-1 resumed test flight only in november last year and according to DRDO and ADA officials all Structural issues and Problems related to NP-1 have been fixed and further testing are under way to check and validate modification and changes which has been carried out on the aircraft .
Till 5th of this month , NP-1 has successfully carried out 19 test flights and once first phase of testing on Naval LCA are completed in Bangalore , ADA will move NP-1 aircraft to INS Hansa Naval base in Goa to carry out second phase of testing which will involve takeoff and landing on Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) which is replica of India's first indigenous aircraft carrier Vikrant being built at Kochi.
SBTF, which was commissioned recently, is primarily used for flight testing of Naval aircraft that operate from aircraft carriers. This is also makes India among Elite Nation since this third such facility in the world, after the United States and Ukraine. Naval Mig-29k pilots are already getting training for aircraft Carrier launch and landing from this facility and soon NP-1 will join in for more testing of the aircraft .
DRDO also is working on Single-seat LCA MK 1 Naval variant ( NP-2) for carrier operations , which is already under construction and will be ready for first flight by year end . Navy already has placed orders for 8 Limited Series Production (LSP) aircraft based on N-LCA MK-1 configuration which mostly likely will be used for Pilot training before N-LCA MK-2 which will be powered by more powerful General Electric F414-GE-INS6 engine will only be ready by 2018-19
 

ersakthivel

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Affordable air power - The Hindu

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The Defence Minister is entirely justified in refusing to sign a $20 billion contract with Dassault Aviation of France for 126 Rafale fighters while life cycle costs are still disputed; these costs are typically at least three times as much as the initial acquisition price over the three to five decades that combat aircraft often operate for. As we head for a new government in Delhi, it is appropriate to consider alternatives to this hugely expensive acquisition.

India's geostrategic environment requires the Indian Air Force (IAF) to be prepared for a simultaneous two front confrontation at multiple levels. This necessitates a combat aircraft mix of expensive high-end fighters like the Su-30 and the forthcoming fifth generation fighter aircraft along with large numbers of cheaper tactical aircraft. The latter could easily deal with low intensity conflicts where it might be risky to use high value assets like the Sukhois.

Rapid retirement of hundreds of MiG-21s, -23s and -27s that have been the tactical backbone of the IAF for decades leaves just over six upgraded MiG-21 and four ground attack MiG-27 squadrons. This means that the IAF's inventory of combat aircraft is currently well below its sanctioned 39-and-a-half squadron strength perhaps unable to fight widely spaced conflagrations against even a single adversary. Its 2001 plan to fill the gap by significantly adding to the 49 Mirage 2000s it then had was scuppered by Defence Ministry mandarins who forced it to go in for competitive tendering. Delays in the procurement process saw the Mirage going out of production and international pressure made sure that the final tender included much heavier and expensive aircraft than the tactical ones that the service originally wanted, leave alone needed.

Cost of aircraft

A request for proposals (RfP) finally went out on July 28, 2007 for 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCAs), with an option for 63 more. Rs.42,000 crore, then worth approximately $10.25 billion, was budgeted to purchase the 126 aircraft. Recent reports indicate that the short-listed Rafales are now expected to cost over $20 billion, not least because of nearly 50 "miscellaneous" items that were left unpriced as part of the original French bid. Not only will the 126 aircraft cost about twice as much in dollar terms as originally budgeted for, depreciation of the rupee with respect to the dollar since the RfP was issued from less than 41 to over 60 will force us to effectively pay about three times as much, nearly Rs.120,000 crore, just in initial acquisition costs with over Rs.30,000 crore of that paid up front.

Interestingly, five of the same aircraft that participated in the Indian MMRCA competition were simultaneously bid for in a similar Brazilian tender. The head of the Brazilian Air Force (FAB), Juniti Saito, has recently stated that they chose the Swedish Gripen NG after an exhaustive evaluation emphasised its performance, the degree of technology transfer and price. The FAB estimated that it would cost $4,000 per flying hour rather than about $14,000 for the heavier Rafale. SAAB quoted $4.5 billion as the initial acquisition cost of the Gripens plus $1.5 billion for maintenance support over 30 years while the Rafale was $8.2 billion, plus $4 billion.

The Rafale's quoted unit cost was thus 82 per cent more than that for the single-engined Gripen while the Brazilians estimated that the Rafale's two engines and expensive maintenance would make it cost a full 250 per cent more to keep in the air.

These figures for the Rafale are in line with those from the defence and security committee of the French Senat which estimated in 2011 that the Rafale programme cost would be €43.56 billion for 286 aircraft.

The largely Indian designed and developed Tejas multirole light combat aircraft (LCA) is not in the same class as the Rafale, but it is far more capable than the MiG-21s it was designed to replace. Modern radar and ground targeting systems, both coupled to a helmet-mounted display and sight, confer superb target acquisition and missile launch capability. Advanced beyond visual range and close combat missiles, along with precision guided munitions, make it more potent than the more powerful MiG-23s and -27s. Even if unit prices rise to $30 million by the time it attains full operational capability, 126 Tejas fighters would still cost well under $4 billion, or a fifth of an equal number of Rafales.

Operating costs would probably be comparable to that of the frugal Gripen largely because it is small, light and powered by a slightly different version of the efficient and hugely reliable GE-F404 engines that also power currently operational Gripens.

While exact comparisons between the Brazilian and "leaked" quotations for Indian Rafales are not possible, not least because of differences in numbers and payment terms, the small difference in unit acquisition cost between the two suggests that the widely reported Indian estimates are very credible. The IAF could buy 200 Tejases instead of 126 Rafales and still save nearly $14 billion or Rs.84,000 crore; this is closely comparable to the 2013-14 capital acquisition budget for the Indian Army, Navy and Air Force. The FAB's estimates also suggest that the IAF would save over $170 million annually even if 200 Tejases, instead of 126 Rafales, each flew 15 hours per month.

Losing credibility

There is no doubt that Indian designers took on the ambitious task of developing an advanced technology aircraft without realistically estimating the resources required to accomplish their goals in the face of an often sceptical IAF and not always fully committed Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). They then lost a great deal of credibility by projecting completion dates that were, at best, exercises in self-delusion. The Tejas has fortunately got a recent lift because Dr. R.K. Tyagi, HAL's current chairman, seems committed to the little fighter.

It would be extremely foolish to break up the Tejas teams involved in the further development of its composite airframe and world class flight control system while full operational capability is very much a work in progress and redesign of the aircraft to more fully meet the IAF's needs is at a critical stage.

Some commentators seem unaware that the Rafale entered service in 2001 nearly 15 years after it first took to the air; an interval that will only be slightly exceeded when the Tejas reaches Final Operational Clearance (FOC) late next year. The IAF has been far more demanding of the Tejas than it has been with respect to the MMRCA contenders whether on the hot and high airstrip at Leh or during Jaisalmer's dusty summers. The service also seems to have forgotten that the Mirage 2000 was armed only with a cannon for three years after it entered service; largely ineffectual during the dangerous "Operation Brass Tacks" of 1986-87.

To summarise, going ahead with the MMRCA programme will cripple India for decades to come. Affordable air power is effective air power. Conversely, unaffordable air power is poor strategy.

(C.Manmohan Reddy, a former management consultant, is a columnist on automobiles, aviation and defence.)

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Kunal Biswas

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@ersakthivel, Thanks for sharing ..

Some commentators seem unaware that the Rafale entered service in 2001 nearly 15 years after it first took to the air; an interval that will only be slightly exceeded when the Tejas reaches Final Operational Clearance (FOC) late next year. The IAF has been far more demanding of the Tejas than it has been with respect to the MMRCA contenders whether on the hot and high airstrip at Leh or during Jaisalmer's dusty summers. The service also seems to have forgotten that the Mirage 2000 was armed only with a cannon for three years after it entered service; largely ineffectual during the dangerous "Operation Brass Tacks" of 1986-87.

To summarise, going ahead with the MMRCA programme will cripple India for decades to come. Affordable air power is effective air power. Conversely, unaffordable air power is poor strategy.
 
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ersakthivel

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@ersakthivel, Thanks for sharing ..
The initial standards set by IAF for tejas and IA for arjun are aimed at delaying the program and making them obsolete even before entering service.

IAF paid the money to russia and operated 40 SU-30s far below the SU-30 MKI specs it demanded from russains quietly.

Then they exchanged the SU-30s for Su-30 MKI once the platform was ready.They wrote the flight manuals of SU-30 MKI themselves and matured it in service.Those 40 Su-30s were sold to algeria by russians and no on ecomplained.

Even recently some fly by wire faults in SU-30 MKI resulted in a couple of crashes grounding the entire fleet and rectified later.But tejas has a sterling safety record.

In the same way they can give a bulk order for tejas mk-1 numbering around 100 kickstarting production and exchane them later for tejas mk-2 and HAL can easily sell these tejas mk-1 second hand to other countries. It will significantly reduce Mig-21 crash fatalities if tejas mk-1 order is high with faster inducion.

It will also motivate private sector players like RIL to set up a production line for tejas.

But by restricting tejas mk-1 to just 40 IAF is just delaying their induction and prolonging the Mig-21 flights in IAF.

The test pilot and group captain Suneet krishna has clearly said Tejas mk-1 is atleast equal to upgraded Mirage-2000, he has flown IAF mirage -2000s as well.

SO why is IAF not going for faster tejas production and induction and instead hedging its bet on tejas mk-2 that too with just 80 order numbers for tejas mk-2.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Lets not forget this event >>>>

IAF will buy 14 Tejas squadrons, lowering costs

India's own fighter, the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), is playing a growing role in protecting Indian airspace. On December 20, when the Tejas was cleared for operational service in the Indian Air Force (IAF), Defence Minister AK Antony declared that 200 Tejas fighters would eventually enter combat service. Today, that figure quietly swelled to well above 300, with the government indicating that the IAF would have at least 14 Tejas squadrons.

Each IAF combat squadron has 21 fighter aircraft; 14 squadrons add up to 294 Tejas fighters. The 21 fighters include 16 frontline, single-seat fighters, 2 twin-seat trainers and 3 reserve aircraft to make up losses in war.


In a written statement tabled in the Lok Sabha on Monday, February 10, Antony's deputy, Jitendra Singh stated, "The MiG-21 and MiG-27 aircrafts of the IAF have already been upgraded and currently equip 14 combat squadrons. These aircraft, however, are planned for being phased out over the next few years and will be replaced by the LCA."

So far, the IAF has committed to inducting just 6 Tejas squadrons --- 2 squadrons of the current Tejas Mark I, and 4 squadrons of the improved Tejas Mark II. In addition, the navy plans to buy some 40-50 Tejas for its future aircraft carriers.
Source : Broadsword: IAF will buy 14 Tejas squadrons, lowering costs

======================
======================


It is known from begining how things are going on, Though things are changed now ..

Lets hope good men work paid off .. :)



The initial standards set by IAF for tejas and IA for arjun are aimed at delaying the program and making them obsolete even before entering service.

IAF paid the money to russia and operated 40 SU-30s far below the SU-30 MKI specs it demanded from russains quietly.

Then they exchanged the SU-30s for Su-30 MKI once the platform was ready.They wrote the flight manuals of SU-30 MKI themselves and matured it in service.Those 40 Su-30s were sold to algeria by russians and no on ecomplained.

Even recently some fly by wire faults in SU-30 MKI resulted in a couple of crashes grounding the entire fleet and rectified later.But tejas has a sterling safety record.

In the same way they can give a bulk order for tejas mk-1 numbering around 100 kickstarting production and exchane them later for tejas mk-2 and HAL can easily sell these tejas mk-1 second hand to other countries. It will significantly reduce Mig-21 crash fatalities if tejas mk-1 order is high with faster inducion.

It will also motivate private sector players like RIL to set up a production line for tejas.

But by restricting tejas mk-1 to just 40 IAF is just delaying their induction and prolonging the Mig-21 flights in IAF.

The test pilot and group captain Suneet krishna has clearly said Tejas mk-1 is atleast equal to upgraded Mirage-2000, he has flown IAF mirage -2000s as well.

SO why is IAF not going for faster tejas production and induction and instead hedging its bet on tejas mk-2 that too with just 80 order numbers for tejas mk-2.
 
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