ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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pankaj nema

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LCA MK1 will be a very good BVRAAM capable fighter aircraft

Even if LCA mk1 has limited payload capacity we can use it purely as a fighter
and load only Air to air missiles

The bombing tasks can be handled by the other planes

LCA Mk 2 will be an absolute kick a$$ fighter plane with AESA ; Virgilius EW suite ;
other DRDO made EW pods ; IRST ; GE 414 engine for higher TWR

It will have everything that IAF expects
 

Kunal Biswas

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Still pakistan has lots of obsolete aircrafts and chinese has 500 mig 21 type aircrafts .So nothing is useless we cant put su-30mki or rafale for pakistan inferior ,aircrafts so that time lca in large number would be usefull to face pakistan obsolete aircrafts as well as -----s mig 21s .4.5th gen fighters can be used mainly for ,countering chinese sukhoi and jf versions
PLAAF retired most of there MIG-21 clones by J10 recently..

And PAF still field F7 ( MIG-21 rip off ) but soon will be replaced by JF-17..

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SU-30MKI ,Rafale F3, MIG-29 & MIR-2000 & LCA MK1&2 will be there to take care of this situation..

LCA is indeed needed but with better BVR & LCA2 is too needed in good numbers..

One cannot depend on HAL for production line but should look into private sector..
 

p2prada

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Still pakistan has lots of obsolete aircrafts and chinese has 500 mig 21 type aircrafts .So nothing is useless we cant put su-30mki or rafale for pakistan inferior
aircrafts so that time lca in large number would be usefull to face pakistan obsolete aircrafts as well as -----s mig 21s .4.5th gen fighters can be used mainly for
countering chinese sukhoi and jf versions
It will be a lot harder for a F-7 to take down a MKI. At the same time, it may not be that hard for a PAF F-7 to take down a LCA.

Have you no respect for the life of a pilot?

We lost so many Mig-21s only because DRDO has been fooling the govt that they will replace the Mig-21s with LCA. Had ADA delivered, the Bison upgrade should never have happened. We should have had 200-300 LCAs operational TODAY, not 10 years from now. No Mig-21s were supposed to be flying today. At least that was what DRDO had promised 30 years ago.

We lost 400 pilots because of ADA's lies.

Nobody here has respect for those 400 dead pilots. All are blaming IAF for the failure of the govt and DRDO.

Had ADA not lied about their progress, then the IAF would have imported equivalent aircraft like Gripen, F-16 or Mirage-2000 back in 1999-2001 period. You see, there is no other armed forces in the world which is as tied to the defence industry as the Indian armed forces. All other armed forces would have shown DRDO equivalent establishments the finger a long time back.

LCA MK1 will be a very good BVRAAM capable fighter aircraft

Even if LCA mk1 has limited payload capacity we can use it purely as a fighter
and load only Air to air missiles
Yeah. The Mk1 is best used for Point defence and CAP.

LCA Mk 2 will be an absolute kick a$$ fighter plane with AESA ; Virgilius EW suite ;
other DRDO made EW pods ; IRST ; GE 414 engine for higher TWR
Ah! While on paper that is all good, it is not so on the ground. We will come back to that in 2014.

Btw, LCA will not have Virgilius. There is an indigenous program for EW.
 

Rahul Singh

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Yes ADA fooled all about replacing Mig-21s and killed many pilots but who fooled IAF about BFT? Why did not IAF considered replacing their BFTs with ejection seat equipped BFTs long before HPT-32s started showing signs of stalling? And despite having M-MRCA process on roll since past 7 years why is that IAF is yet to induct single fighter?..............Easy to blame ADA alone and not consider road blocks ADA faced in the process..........Quite much of Mig-21 crash is attribute to Human Error, which is by product of improper training cadets received.
 

Kunal Biswas

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....Quite much of Mig-21 crash is attribute to Human Error, which is by product of improper training cadets received.
Its easy to blame the pilots too, Its a excuse to hide all the faulty imports by MOD..
 

Rahul Singh

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Still pakistan has lots of obsolete aircrafts and chinese has 500 mig 21 type aircrafts .So nothing is useless we cant put su-30mki or rafale for pakistan inferior
aircrafts so that time lca in large number would be usefull to face pakistan obsolete aircrafts as well as -----s mig 21s .4.5th gen fighters can be used mainly for
countering chinese sukhoi and jf versions
IAF needs numbers regardless of which aircraft it chooses. In case of war with China (who will most certainly open multiple fronts at LAC to defuse concentration of Indian assets at macmohan line) IAF will find itself in very difficult position because of just 650-700 fighters against 1500 enemy fighters and responsibilities like Limited Offence, Air Support, Point Interception and local and wide area Air Defense. Worthy of mention is the fact that in case of any war with China at least a front by Pakistan is certain at LOC and that will only add to already out blown problem..................IAF can be equipped with superior planes (payload and range wise) but their superiority alone won't make them capable of defending two different fronts separated by hundreds of kilometers.......Love LCA hate LCA but going by present economic condition LCA is the only aircraft which IAF can pack itself in bulk to meet air defense requirements expected during stated situation.
 

Rahul Singh

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Its easy to blame the pilots too, Its a excuse to hide all the faulty imports by MOD..
Lot of Mig-21 crashed due to faulty spares that a fact but a lot also crashed because of improper training as well......You can't blame cadets when they receive training in a jet which is not meant to train for jet a trainee is going to fly.

Added later

Presently AFA is sending flight Cadets strait to IJT stage that is to Kiran Mk-2s skipping BFT stage but says they are not compromising anything. The question is, if pilots can be adequately trained skipping BFT then why is BFT needed at all? And if BFT is needed despite successfully meeting training requirements without it then what is true and what not?
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Lot of Mig-21 crashed due to faulty spares that a fact but a lot also crashed because of improper training as well......You can't blame cadets when they receive training in a jet which is not meant to train for jet a trainee is going to fly.
Just one major faulty spare, MIG-21 were used for training specially Supersonic flights coz they are abundant in IAF..

Other wise Jet training done in Kirans..
 

p2prada

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Yes ADA fooled all about replacing Mig-21s and killed many pilots but who fooled IAF about BFT? Why did not IAF considered replacing their BFTs with ejection seat equipped BFTs long before HPT-32s started showing signs of stalling?
Right, and you think that is done overnight. It isn't a plastic chair that you replace once it breaks.

IAF took a better method by installing a crash recovery chute to save the whole aircraft and is used was a stop gap measure.

Btw, how many do you think crashed? Out of 75 procured, 17 have crashed. While it is high, it is not as high as you think that it requires immediate replacement. It has been in service since 1984 afterall.

Despite the problems on Deepak, do you think HAL would have allowed the IAF to go for a basic trainer when it was being flight tested or undergoing production. If there is an equivalent available, the armed forces aren't allowed import of the same by law unless the DPSU allows imports due to delays. It is by law. Heck it is far easier to bring down Govts in India than force DRDO to allow imports.

What do you think is happening now? Where is the follow on BFT to the Deepak from HAL? Funny why IAF is importing now...

And despite having M-MRCA process on roll since past 7 years why is that IAF is yet to induct single fighter?
2007 to 2012 is not 7, it is 5. IAF did send out RFPs in 2004 and that was withdrawn upon the govt's insistence and not done by IAF. Then again, the flight tests conducted by IAF was the most comprehensive tests in a tender ever carried out. So, are you blaming the IAF to be overly professional? 6 years to validate and sign on the dotted line is a big deal, especially with our bureaucracy.

Actually the RFP was sent in Aug 2007 and the companies responded only in April 2008. So, taking April 2008 to Jan 2012, when the preferred bidder was chosen the actual time elapsed was just 45 months. That's 3.75 years. Even better, the time IAF took to send out the RFP, test the aircraft and select the two best birds was completed in July 2010. So, from the time the companies answered the RFPs to IAF announced the two aircraft it was just 26 months or 2.17 years. That's barely anything for a deal so large. The rest of the time was merely the time taken to settle the offsets and hand over the files to the MoF for final price breakdown. So, a lot of that had to do more with the companies deciding how they want to satisfy the offset, industrial and ToT clause than anything to do with IAF or MoD.

So, look at that, I brought down the claimed 7 years to 2.17 years. Only recently was the IAF allowed to resume negotiation of the contract. Without any more political delays like our dear MP did, we will see the deal signed soon, as soon as the specs and configuration are finalized.

..............Easy to blame ADA alone and not consider road blocks ADA faced in the process..........
Hahahahaha! We have seen their roadblocks. A year to get approvals, after they get it they cannot make it. Nice roadblock. When the first model was made there were structural deficiencies making TD-1 unflyable. Let's blame the roadblocks. When a FBW was needed, Dassault offered an analog FBW. But no!!! ADA wanted to develop one on it's own, a Digitial one. And they take 6 years making one. Who do we blame? Let's blame IAF. Engine was a disaster. Approvals were given in 1989, in 2001 the blades were flying around trying to kill the test team. Let's blame GoI for not twisting laws of Physics here like they twist public opinion.

Quite much of Mig-21 crash is attribute to Human Error, which is by product of improper training cadets received.
Like a magical ~30%. What about the other ~70%. Let's blame IAF for pushing an aircraft beyond it's life, maintain whatever they managed without any credible spares supplies and at the same time blame rookie pilots because ADA was dillydallying on a promise made back in 1983 when DRDO suggested they will make LCA while IAF was laughing their asses off on that suggestion. Little did the IAF know they will spend the the first decade of the new millennium crying.

Do you actually believe that the only reason ADA delayed LCA is because of IAF. That's fart the media has been feeding to the ignorant masses since years. Too much patriotism and too little realism.

There is a difference between roadblocks and making substandard equipment. Gates removing funding for the Zimwault is a roadblock. Unavailability of IL-76 platforms for Phalcon AWACS is a roadblock. The F-35 having multiple issues regardless of removing political hurdles and reducing requirements is not a roadblock. It means the F-35's issues make it substandard and has nothing to do with USAF requirements or DoDs red tape. Similarly, the LCA is a substandard aircraft, regardless of the roadblocks. You can say Physics is the roadblock for LCA. It is funny why I don't see the US media blaming the USAF for the F-35 delays. Actually we saw heads roll at Lockheed Martin for the F-35 delays. In India, ADA is enjoying more work instead. Maybe that's how a developed country works and that's how we work. Oh! well. Nobody to blame but the IAF.
 

Kunal Biswas

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the LCA is a substandard aircraft
At what its lagging behind ? As per specs she is fine..



It does have a Good:

Radar..
Engine..
Array of weapons ..
EW Suit..
Aerodynamics and maneuverability..
Range..
Tested in different terrain..
 

p2prada

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Love LCA hate LCA but going by present economic condition LCA is the only aircraft which IAF can pack itself in bulk to meet air defense requirements expected during stated situation.
Our so called economic conditions are not as bad as you think. We will have greater liabilities, but can still manage higher growth. With better reforms we can sustain growth and once the economic crises subsides, our foundation will be stronger for even more impressive growth. We are in a growth phase regardless of the inflation.

While we need more aircraft, LCA simply won't do anymore. The potential for LCA is 6 squadrons as of today, not 25 or 30 as was the plan in 1988. Instead we have plans for 30-35 squadrons of 30 ton aircraft like MKI and PAKFA. You see where I am going now? We have gone far beyond LCA.

By 2018, when LCA will actually be ready if delays are not considered, then our economy will be more than enough to handle the larger influx of heavy aircraft more rapidly than we can today. We can potentially be the same size as today's China by then.

In the 2020-30 period we can even aim at doubling or even tripling the IAF's size from today's strength. Why do I say so? Heck by that time we will potentially have crossed today's American GDP. And you still want LCAs? :rolleyes:

This isn't about loving or hating the LCA. This is about being realistic to the threats we face. Regardless of numbers we will be foolish to send LCA class aircraft against PLAAF J-20s, J-11s and J-10s. Don't forget we aren't playing games. It is more useful to waste the life of a pilot on PAKFA rather than LCA when facing something like the J-20.

It is about time people grow brains. Or you can act like how the Pakis do and sit talking about how the JF-17 will engage MKIs and Phalcons simply because they know magic.

There is this overly stupid, retarded belief that an aircraft like LCA can take out a more capable enemy simply because he is connected to the AWACS.

Comparatively the LCA was built to engage incoming strike aircraft. Meaning these are aircraft which can barely support themselves, are carrying heavy loads of bombs and other equipment. So, the LCA is meant to disrupt the formation and send it back, heck it is not even meant to take out enemy fighters. The purpose is to keep the enemy occupied to the point where it has become too risky try again. By then heavy fighters would come in and kill any lurkers. That's what a point defence aircraft does. It defends a point in the sky, nothing else.

In the IAF squadrons are at a premium. There is a fixed number of squadrons specified by the MoD which the IAF cannot cross. So, it is IAF's decision on how best to use this premium space. If IAF is allowed 40 squadrons and they have decided on 500 LCA, then good bye India. The current plan is 14-15 squadrons of MKIs followed by 7 squadrons of Rafales. That's potentially 22 squadrons of high end aircraft. 2 squadrons of Mirages and 3 squadrons of Mig-29s bring it to 27. Add 7 squadrons of Jaguars we have 34. So, we have 8 squadrons empty, to deal with LCA and the newly inducted PAKFA by 2022. All the Migs save the -29 are gone by then. Even the 29s will be very old since the MLUs wont take long.

Now if MoD suddenly decides to increase the IAF's squadron cap of 42 to 50 by 2030. Do you actually think IAF will want to fill all that up with LCAs or FGFAs/AMCAs . Think. That's 8 squadrons. The plans are for 166 PAKFAs and 48 FGFAs. That's 10 squadrons. Follow that up with 4 squadrons of Rafale and an X number(say 4) of AMCA by 2030. 18 squadrons filled. The extra squadrons will be replacements for Mig-29s/Jags/Mirage-2000s that make up 12 squadrons currently.

Think logically, where is the space for hundreds of LCA? We can manage 20 LCA Mk1s followed by a potential 83 Mk2s. That's about it. IAF did talk about 6 squadrons of LCA in total. Nothing more, potentially something lesser.
 

p2prada

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At what its lagging behind ? As per specs she is fine..
The specs advertised and the specs demonstrated are completely different. The Mk1 is mostly equivalent to the JF-17 Block 1. Meaning it is sh!t. We have to wait until 2018 for a FOC Mk2 in order to actually achieve IAF's original ASQR from 1985.

It does have a Good:

Radar..
Not yet. But it will be decent. AESA, we will see when it comes. LRDE is still looking for a partner who can deliver the T/R modules.

Underpowered. Only the F-414 will fix it. But that's 2018.

Array of weapons ..
EW Suit..
Subjective to time and variant. Mk1 won't have an EW suite, but same weapons package.

Aerodynamics and maneuverability..
Major point of failure. The problem with LCA is not electronics, but design of the airframe. It is too heavy and the there are certain flaws that do not allow full capability. That's why the Mk2 program was started.

Does not conform to IAF ASQR. Payload too. ADA suggested sacrificing fuel in order to carry more weapons for Mk1. The same as JF-17 Block 1.

Tested in different terrain..
All aircraft are.
 

Kunal Biswas

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The specs advertised and the specs demonstrated are completely different.
Ok, How ?

Not yet. But it will be decent. AESA, we will see when it comes. LRDE is still looking for a partner who can deliver the T/R modules.
It dont have AESA so its not good ? How many aircraft in the world are with AESA now ?

Underpowered. Only the F-414 will fix it. But that's 2018.
GE F-404 -Thrust-to-weight ratio: 7.8:1 (76.0 N/kg), if thrust to weight ratio is 1 aircraft is excellent ..

Subjective to time and variant. Mk1 won't have an EW suite, but same weapons package.
Tuesday, April 5, 2011


IAI suit will be applied for now, But it can be changed as per need..

It is too heavy and the there are certain flaws that do not allow full capability.
Like ?

All aircraft are.
Not all successful..
 

natarajan

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When ballistic missiles cant be bought from shelf ,we get it from our local but fighters and other tanks etc we can get along with huge kickbacks ,once
fighters are also restricted we will buy from local itself .
 

p2prada

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Ok, How ?
I already explained some of it. There are aerodynamic issues which force the LCA to be less than ASQR. It cannot manage top speeds ot Mach 1.8, it is stuck at mach 1.6 for now. The Gs have been reduced to +8/-3 from the required +9/-3.5. AoA of 24[SUP]o[/SUP] will not be reached. The undercarriage is 1.5 tons heavier. It was 2 tons heavier and was reduced by 500Kg after bringing EADS as a consultant. The thrust to weight of the aircraft is less than 1, that's why they are planning a new MK2 with a new engine.

According to ADA's OFFICIAL announcement, "LCA Mk2 will be built to IAF's ASQR."

It dont have AESA so its not good ? How many aircraft in the world are with AESA now ?
It is not about AESA. Actually I prefer they go for a mechanical array for the sake of physics where the mech gives greater search angles at the antenna edges. AESA cannot be used to it's full potential on such a small platform.

GE F-404 -Thrust-to-weight ratio: 7.8:1 (76.0 N/kg), if thrust to weight ratio is 1 aircraft is excellent ..
Well, it is sh!t for LCA. That's why the IAF wants the F-414 now. It is not about Thrust to weight of the engine. It is about thrust to weight for the whole aircraft. The thrust to weight for the M88-2(Rafale's engines) is 8:1. Simply because is is higher does not mean the engine can be used on LCA. Heck Kaveri can deliver more thrust than M88-2 even though its thrust to weight is 6.5:1.

IAI suit will be applied for now, But it can be changed as per need..
Nothing internal on LCA Mk1. The aircraft was deemed too underpowered and an internal suite has been rejected. They will be lucky to power the radar alone.

Internal suite is only on Mk2.

Not all successful..
The ones that did not won't be seeing service in IAF. Nobody cares about that.
 

p2prada

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When ballistic missiles cant be bought from shelf ,we get it from our local but fighters and other tanks etc we can get along with huge kickbacks ,once
fighters are also restricted we will buy from local itself .
Our Ballistic missiles are not among the best in the world. Our imported fighters are. See the difference.

Our Ballistic missiles merely get the job done and are satisfactory.

Once ADA can deliver world class fighters, IAF will buy from them. LCA is not world class, yet. As to when it will be world class, it is to be seen, say 2018.
 

Kunal Biswas

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There are aerodynamic issues which force the LCA to be less than ASQR. It cannot manage top speeds ot Mach 1.8, it is stuck at mach 1.6 for now. The Gs have been reduced to +8/-3 from the required +9/-3.5. AoA of 24o will not be reached. The undercarriage is 1.5 tons heavier. It was 2 tons heavier and was reduced by 500Kg after bringing EADS as a consultant.
1.6 mach is less, Is the required specs was Mach 2 ?

The under carriage is about NLCA or LCA ?

Is the requirement was +9gs ?

& Where is it written about AoA ? there are few Aircraft whose real AoA are actually published..

The thrust to weight of the aircraft is less than 1, that's why they are planning a new MK2 with a new engine.According to ADA's OFFICIAL announcement, "LCA Mk2 will be built to IAF's ASQR."
Well, it is sh!t for LCA. That's why the IAF wants the F-414 now. It is not about Thrust to weight of the engine.
GE F-404 -Thrust-to-weight ratio: 7.8:1 (76.0 N/kg), if thrust to weight ratio is 1 aircraft is excellent ..

^^ ?? it says clearly 7.8:1 ..

Nothing internal on LCA Mk1.
After reading about the poster and its time when its developed, Hard to count on this that it dont have and underpowered thing ..

Do you have some link which say so..
 

p2prada

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1.6 mach is less, Is the required specs was Mach 2 ?
Nope. Mach 1.8. Btw, to date the fastest LCA has been is at Mach 1.4, nothing higher. They are trying to reach Mach 1.6 before IOC.

The under carriage is about NLCA or LCA ?
Both. The 500Kg reduction was on N-LCA though.

Is the requirement was +9gs ?
Yes.

& Where is it written about AoA ? there are few Aircraft whose real AoA are actually published..
Any Tom, Dick and Harry can measure it from air shows. AoA is not a secret. Current AoA for LCA currently is 18[SUP]o[/SUP]. Planned AoA for IOC is 22[SUP]o[/SUP], final AoA is supposed to be 24[SUP]o[/SUP]. But neither of these may be achieved due to an underpowered aircraft. These are figures with FBW active.

Google AoA with any aircraft and you will get real figures. It is not opsec.

GE F-404 -Thrust-to-weight ratio: 7.8:1 (76.0 N/kg), if thrust to weight ratio is 1 aircraft is excellent ..

^^ ?? it says clearly 7.8:1 ..
ng.

Let me put it this way. Can you place a 1000HP V-92S2 in Arjun? No. It is the same thing. LCA needs an additional ton of thrust. The current engine thrust is too less.

LCA's T/W ratio is less than 1.

After reading about the poster and its time when its developed, Hard to count on this that it dont have and underpowered thing ..

Do you have some link which say so..
The stupid thing can't even fly properly and you want it to have an internal EW suite. :facepalm:
 

Kunal Biswas

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Nope. Mach 1.8. Btw, to date the fastest LCA has been is at Mach 1.4, nothing higher. They are trying to reach Mach 1.6 before IOC.
I dont think there was any official requirement for LCA to fly at Mach 2 or 1.8, If there provide link..

Both. The 500Kg reduction was on N-LCA though.
Both ? Is there any mention of such regarding Air force-LCA , I dont think so..

There is always space for Improvement..

Any Tom, Dick and Harry can measure it from air shows.
:facepalm:

LCA's T/W ratio is less than 1.
GE F-404 -Thrust-to-weight ratio: 7.8:1 (76.0 N/kg), if thrust to weight ratio is 1 aircraft is excellent ..

The stupid thing can't even fly properly and you want it to have an internal EW suite.
I see where this going..
 
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