A layman's analysis on our last two mmrca contenders

[SHASH2K2]

Thanks shash.

That is what exactly ive been saying all along..

so no objection fro EFT due to fear of sanction
lets discuss TOT then .

 

[Drsomnath999]

you are contradicting yourself . what applies to USA should also apply to UK .

well may be ,then french may be definitely a better option as they r time tested weapon suppler to india

 

[SpArK]

so no objection fro EFT due to fear of sanction
lets discuss TOT then .

Yup ToT..

Rafale announced full ToT before anybody else , from what i recollect .

 

[SHASH2K2]

Yup ToT..

Rafale announced full ToT before anybody else , from what i recollect .

I thought full TOT is a myth. will they give us technnlogy behind AESA or source code for it or crystal blade technology ?

 

[Drsomnath999]

Yup ToT..

Rafale announced full ToT before anybody else , from what i recollect .

well it is the part of MMRCA agreement to transfer complete Tot nothing great thing france did ,& BTW france had earliear announced ToT for scorpene but in some areas they r reluctant to give some technology which r critical for it's building indigeniuosly by INDIA.

 

[SpArK]

I thought full TOT is a myth. will they give us technnlogy behind AESA or source code for it or crystal blade technology ?

Source code - a definite yes.
crystal blade- kaveri snecma.
AESA technology- god knows.

 

[A.V.]

I agree with $$$ and the recent suck up part. What i dont agree is the client state part.

Yes america didnt come to help us when we didnt had $$$, thats business , they are not running charity nor are any country for that matter.

The opposition we have seen in our very short history was clearly cold war alliances. Times have changed so are the priorities.

We still want US to confront Pakistan and China and today also i have seen people rejoicing US will go after Pakistan after Iraq.

Well all want them to do job's we were supposed to do but fear India will be a client state if we buy jets, but its ok if its heli's or any other weaponary.

You saying establishment dont trust , then why the hell are we buying the most critical part, the GE414 for own fighters?

Ok 1 by one i can explain this :-

1> Its different things as not helping and different than putting embargo / aiding the enemy . let alone cold war alliances just think of it , how many times has america condemned CROSS border terrorism in kashmir even now , i am not speaking about token remarks by smart asses of american establishment , i am talking about official government policy.
If its just business they why does the other country help out say france or israel or russia or tajikistan , why dont they do business and say lets talk , lets ask for bigger price / lets wait and see .

2> Forget cold war , how many times america has consulted india on the afgan foreign council , India with its biggest investment in terms of $$$ in afganistan and closer to military allied states , yet america keeps india out of agfan poicy since 2001 , isnt that great coming form a paperwork friend and ally.

3> i am not even excited when america does anything pro india , because it matters little they never do anything pro to anybody except for pro america and they are right on that , no complaints .So when people rejoice at the thought of america attacking pakistan they are just fooling themselves for it matters little to india, because they will neither do it to help india not consult india they will do it for their own good and benefit .

4> the fear stems form the fact at the number of planes its ok to buy 20-30 but 126 frontline fighters form a state who is unreliable supplier would be a major dent and risk.

5> about LCA engines its just a stop gap and its not the most important part , if you consider LCA to be the most important arsenal then the policies are different for the IAF considering they rank the flankers and mrca as their 1st and 2nd line .IAF s official doctine till 2030 speaks su30 mki to be its forntline fighter even with the induction of say pakfa , its because of operation availability and ease and mastery over the arsenal. so it matters little the ge 104. ALSO as i said before INDIA -AMERICA is a buyer and seller just india is the one who chooses what to buy and what not. buying ge104 in a large number and stocking it is not comparable to individual fighter spare marks which number to 1000000 of minutes small things.

 

[SpArK]

well it is the part of MMRCA agreement to transfer complete Tot nothing great thing france did ,& BTW france had earliear announced ToT for scorpene but in some areas they r reluctant to give some technology which r critical for it's building indigeniuosly by INDIA.

Link please.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Source code - a definite yes.
crystal blade- kaveri snecma.
AESA technology- god knows.

what I know about source code is that they wil give us access so that we can modiy radar parameters as per mission requirements. does it include source code?
what I heard is that they will integate snecma core to Kaveri but core will be theirs and they will charge us on numbers of cores that we may use in future so thats not transfer for crystal blade tech as we wont be making those cores here in India.
regarding AESA we can access it only through EFT given we are willing to invest money in joint development.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Link please.

which one 1st one or the 2nd one

 

[SpArK]

how many times has america condemned CROSS border terrorism in kashmir even now , i am not speaking about token remarks by smart asses of american establishment , i am talking about official government policy.

Why we expect their condemn in first place..and how many EF partners have condemned on Kashmir?

how many times america has consulted india on the afgan foreign council , India with its biggest investment in terms of $$$ in afganistan and closer to military allied states , yet america keeps india out of agfan poicy since 2001 , isnt that great coming form a paperwork friend and ally.

Why we expect them to consult with us on anything they are doing on their own interest???

Its NATO (incl non nato ally) , Afghanistan who are part of the process. not the investing India or mining contractor China.

i am not even excited when america does anything pro india , because it matters little they never do anything pro to anybody except for pro america and they are right on that , no complaints .So when people rejoice at the thought of america attacking pakistan they are just fooling themselves for it matters little to india, because they will neither do it to help india not consult india they will do it for their own good and benefit .

Neither am i. i want our job to be done by us. (you very well know what i mean by that).

the fear stems form the fact at the number of planes its ok to buy 20-30 but 126 frontline fighters form a state who is unreliable supplier would be a major dent and risk.


about LCA engines its just a stop gap and its not the most important part , if you consider LCA to be the most important arsenal then the policies are different for the IAF considering they rank the flankers and mrca as their 1st and 2nd line .IAF s official doctine till 2030 speaks su30 mki to be its forntline fighter even with the induction of say pakfa , its because of operation availability and ease and mastery over the arsenal. so it matters little the ge 104. ALSO as i said before INDIA -AMERICA is a buyer and seller just india is the one who chooses what to buy and what not. buying ge104 in a large number and stocking it is not comparable to individual fighter spare marks which number to 1000000 of minutes small things.

Supplies.. we had bigger issues with our regular suppliers. Hundreds of threads and posts are here calling them unreliable.

 

[SpArK]

which one 1st one or the 2nd one

second..one .. all i can recollect is we getting AIP technologies.

But i could be wrong in most cases, i am not that knowledgeable like most here and engages in a dialogue to know what i dont know.

 

[sayareakd]

Problem with TOT is their, suppose they give us all the tech, still we have some problem for eg. they will give us chip, but every time chip is fried or shot circuit, we have to go back to maker for chip. That is when maker will rip you off as they will increase the cost of chip. This happen in past and i am sure will happen in future.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Problem with TOT is their, suppose they give us all the tech, still we have some problem for eg. they will give us chip, but every time chip is fried or shot circuit, we have to go back to maker for chip. That is when maker will rip you off as they will increase the cost of chip. This happen in past and i am sure will happen in future.

I guess problem like this will happen with every country . best option is to do a complete study and maintian a decenet stocks of all critical components or backup.

 

[SHASH2K2]

second..one .. all i can recollect is we getting AIP technologies.

But i could be wrong in most cases, i am not that knowledgeable like most here and engages in a dialogue to know what i dont know.

To integrete AIP size of ship needs to be modified or nose section needs to be increased I guess. Its not just AIP. there were many technologies that were denied and we were also a little slow in absorbing some technologies. also they tend to provide readymade package of some critical components and all we need to do is just assemble it . we need more than that.

 

[SpArK]

To integrete AIP size of ship needs to be modified or nose section needs to be increased I guess. Its not just AIP. there were many technologies that were denied and we were also a little slow in absorbing some technologies. also they tend to provide readymade package of some critical components and all we need to do is just assemble it . we need more than that.

While we were talking , a reliable partner has just irked us.

http://defenceforumindia.com/indian...a-mta-project-runs-into-rough.html#post336312

 

[sayareakd]

what next discussing Anna on MRCA deal ???

 

[SHASH2K2]

While we were talking , a reliable partner has just irked us.

http://defenceforumindia.com/indian...a-mta-project-runs-into-rough.html#post336312

I dont want to derail the thread by talking about Russia here . NO country is reliable and all they are looking for is money so we need to go for best deal . thats why I am trying to concentrate on which country is ofreing us better deal . France or EFT consortium .

 

[SHASH2K2]

saya sir can you put some light on TOT front .

 

[SpArK]

I dont want to derail the thread by talking about Russia here . NO country is reliable and all they are looking for is money so we need to go for best deal . thats why I am trying to concentrate on which country is ofreing us better deal . France or EFT consortium .

That answer will only be solved when the bids are offered.

Its already close to end of the month, next week we will know who has given the best.