23 Pak troops killed or injured in ambush

DaRk WaVe

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Uh so we agree to the basic point that civilians are being killed at it is akin to genocide or may be if you come up with a different definition of killing civilians with heavy weapons
same old rant, I have posted the Video can't you just see it!!
I never ever said that there will be Zero Collateral Damage, there is difference b/w Collateral Damage & Genocide & i repeat use of Heavy Weapons in no way means there is a damn genocide going on, the same Model was used by ISAF with the ultimate aim to minimize the collateral Damage & read the Reuters i have posted, it says how effective PA has been
 
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nitesh

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same old rant, I have posted the Video can't you just see it!!
I never ever said that there will be Zero Collateral Damage, there is difference b/w Collateral Damage & Genocide & i repeat use of Heavy Weapons in no way means there is a damn genocide going on, the same Model was used by ISAF with aim to minimize the collateral Damage
See here you came again with old point if you agree civilians are being killed by the use of heavy weapons then it is a genocide a video does not proves any damn thing. The basic point remains the same PA created the monster and is killing own people period.
 

DaRk WaVe

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See here you came again with old point if you agree civilians are being killed by the use of heavy weapons then it is a genocide a video does not proves any damn thing. The basic point remains the same PA created the monster and is killing own people period.
see you are back to same old nuisance, the video is showing that during Operation there were literally ZERO civilians in the area & use of Heavy Weapons is in NO WAY akin to Genocide, & again IT wasn't just PA/ISI, stop simplifying such a complex equation


MOD EDIT: Don't bring unnecessary issues in to the thread
 

DaRk WaVe

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MOD EDIT: Don't bring unnecessary issues in to the thread
MOD EDIT: Please don't bring un related issues again
 
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nitesh

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see you are back to same old nuisance, the video is showing that during Operation there were literally ZERO civilians in the area & use of Heavy Weapons is in NO WAY akin to Genocide, & again IT wasn't just PA/ISI, stop simplifying such a complex equation
Uh so you declare that till now there is ZERO civilian casualties in the operation? And you want us to believe such a blatant lie

http://www1.voanews.com/english/new...s-Not-Just-Militants-Officials--90762699.html

Villagers and government sources Tuesday said those killed actually were tribesmen who had gathered at a house in the northwestern Khyber region. The exact number of civilians or militants killed is still unclear.
and yes your forces are doing genocide only see the cruelty

Fighter jets first bombed the house Saturday morning. Villagers say that when people arrived to help remove bodies, the house was hit again.

Residents say Pakistani forces had wrong information and that the community had a history of cooperating with the military. The owner of the home that was bombed has two sons serving in Pakistan's army.
What others done does not matters it's your forces killing your people that matters don't blame your ills to others
 

DaRk WaVe

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Uh so you declare that till now there is ZERO civilian casualties in the operation? And you want us to believe such a blatant lie

http://www1.voanews.com/english/new...s-Not-Just-Militants-Officials--90762699.html
again, your deduction is based on what you want to deduce, I said that according to Video 'during Operation there were literally zero civilians in the area', Read it with OPEN EYES , this was done to 'minimize the collateral damage', I never ever said there were Zero Civilian Casualties, there is difference b/w Genocide & collateral Damage

What others done does not matters it's your forces killing your people that matters don't blame your ills to others
Uptill now i haven't blamed any one I am only explaining the 'dynamics', when did i acted like a Zion Hamid Mouth Piece
 

nitesh

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again, your deduction is based on what you want to deduce, I said that according to Video 'during Operation there were literally zero civilians in the area', Read it with OPEN EYES , this was done to 'minimize the collateral damage', I never ever said there were Zero Civilian Casualties, there is difference b/w Genocide & collateral Damage
wow so one video fo some minutes/ hours just proves that your forces have not done any collateral damage/genocide? The link i posted clearly shows your forces are destroying properties and killing innocents mercilessly that is both collateral damage and genocide

Uptill now i haven't blamed any one I am only explaining the 'dynamics', when did i acted like a Zion Hamid Mouth Piece
Well then why is the constant blabbering about it's not just PA/ISI? Don't bring others in to equation it's your forces killing your people
 

hit&run

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What US and NATO forces were doing in Afghanistan was a genocide for Pakistani Muslims. The same when Pakistan army with NATO forces are doing in Pakistan one by one is an operation with possible collateral damage. What a double standard.

Afghanistan alone and west and Pakistan both were responsible for the creation of Taliban so i am including numbers of causalities from both countries!!!

2001-present
Civilians killed as a result of insurgent actions
(Total of available estimates, lower - upper)

Total direct deaths: at least 4,029 - 5,579

Civilians killed as a result of U.S-led military actions
(Total of available estimates, lower - upper)

direct deaths: at least 5,568 - 8,360
indirect deaths in initial invasion: 3,200 - 20,000
direct & indirect deaths: 8,768 - 28,360


Civilians killed as a result of the war
(Total of available estimates, lower - upper)

direct deaths: at least 10,172 - 12,969
indirect deaths: 3,200 - 20,000
direct & indirect deaths: 13,372 - 32,969
indirect deaths after initial invasion: n/a



Pakistan
According to data released by Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), from 9/11 till now, 30,452 people have been killed or injured. These include 21,672 civilians and 8,785 military personnel.
In 2009 alone, when the Pakistani military went into action against the Taliban in the country's restive northwest, 10,000 people were killed, Online news agency reported

Please note that many (US) agencies have mentioned that Pakistan is exaggerating numbers of terrorists killed.
 
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ahmedsid

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Those who have died, have Died and May their Soul's Rest In peace.

As for Collateral Damage, yes it does occur in any operation, where guns and bombs are involved. One thing I have heard is Pakistani Army shelling out Whole villages after the Taliban have left, and thereby killing civiians, who inturn become Taliban.

Pakistani Army lacks the intelligence in the NW i feel. Most of their intelligence officials might have been killed off, or assimilated into the Taliban. But yes, once in a while drone strikes kill some terrorist leaders. Thats there, but the foots on the ground is the only way forward, not shelling out villages.
 

ganesh177

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Collateral damage is the part of any war on terror.
It happened in iraq, it is happening in palestine, and no doubt it will happen in even more magnitude in pakistan. That is becoz these terrorists are cowards who use the innocent civilians as shields.
There is no technology or tactics yet to bring the collateral damage to zero, i will say it is part of the war on terror. It wont be labelled as genocide, as their is no intent of killing innocent people in this operation, its just that it is unavoidable.

From indian point of view, this collateral damage should not be our concern. We want pakistan army to continue this war on terror till the last extremist is killed. So that PA does not use them again for another kargil. This chapter should be finished so that there is nothing left to differentiate between good and bad taliban for ISI/PA. I want PA to have some transperency in their operation and launch the similar cracdown against the terror organistaion causing trouble in india. Which so far has not happened, and anti-india elements are roaming free with pride.
So cheers to PA for war on terror.

There is nothing left to argue in who created this monster. It is obvious to everyone, and pakistan knows it, hence now cannot run away from the job of cleaning its own shit.
 
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USA is using drones like Predator but even then many civilians are getting killed, USA has more or less told Pakistan let us do what we please or no aid and the Pakistani government has obliged.
 

hit&run

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Why collateral damage is happening? cause now they can not afford refuges like way they received during first wave of operations.They are simply pleasing Americans with dead bodies as terrorists. There own media has been challenging them for being incapable to attack Taliban but are using artillery of villages. Who on earth will use artillery within its own state for precision attack. This not a collateral damage but genocide of its own people. American can bluff and appreciate their operational tactics as far as these tactics are not use on Americans but on non Americans.
 
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nitesh

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Collateral damage is the part of any war on terror.
f it is on other country people not on your own country people especially if they have been made to go in that path you see this is the difference

It happened in iraq, it is happening in palestine, and no doubt it will happen in even more magnitude in pakistan. That is becoz these terrorists are cowards who use the innocent civilians as shields.
There is no technology or tactics yet to bring the collateral damage to zero, i will say it is part of the war on terror. It wont be labelled as genocide, as their is no intent of killing innocent people in this operation, its just that it is unavoidable.
Please again don't bring un related issues in to the discussion in every scenario one country is attacking other country it is not like that the same country army is involved in killing own civilians acting like a mercenary of foreign power

From indian point of view, this collateral damage should not be our concern. We want pakistan army to continue this war on terror till the last extremist is killed. So that PA does not use them again for another kargil. This chapter should be finished so that there is nothing left to differentiate between good and bad taliban for ISI/PA. I want PA to have some transperency in their operation and launch the similar cracdown against the terror organistaion causing trouble in india. Which so far has not happened, and anti-india elements are roaming free with pride.
So cheers to PA for war on terror.

There is nothing left to argue in who created this monster. It is obvious to everyone, and pakistan knows it, hence now cannot run away from the job of cleaning its own shit.
Why should India not be worried this is the greediness of the PA which allowed there people to get in to such abyss and now PA it self is killing them selectively and in the process doing genocide by killing civilians for success in this war the mindset of using terrorism as state policy has to change otherwise this will never end
 

venkat

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MOD EDIT: Venkat please don't bring OT issues here




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DaRk WaVe

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wow so one video fo some minutes/ hours just proves that your forces have not done any collateral damage/genocide? The link i posted clearly shows your forces are destroying properties and killing innocents mercilessly that is both collateral damage and genocide
first you were even denying seeing that video, you are shifting your points again & again & then come to same old point with nothing credible,I ahve backed each & every point of mine with a source, I have pointed out that before Operation civilians were evacuated & there were literally no civilians in the area, the link you provided is about Collateral Damage, it isn't a genocide, it ain't proving that the operation in way is a genocide it is systematic killing of rouge elements is not genocide
Well then why is the constant blabbering about it's not just PA/ISI? Don't bring others in to equation it's your forces killing your people
its a fact coming out of mouth of Hillary


& BTW i am loving the way you people are rating my posts ROFL
 

DaRk WaVe

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MOD EDIT: Please don't reply to OT use the report button instead
 
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DaRk WaVe

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USA is using drones like Predator but even then many civilians are getting killed, USA has more or less told Pakistan let us do what we please or no aid and the Pakistani government has obliged.
ahmedsid said:
once in a while drone strikes kill some terrorist leaders
there is a different dimension of Good n Bad Taliban which define the effectiveness of drones strike, Baitullah was allowed to get away many times even when Americans knew he was entering Afgh & ISI pin pointed his location & still Americans didnt sent many drones at that particular time, meaning at first the drones were only striking the only targets that were disturbing the American Designs & they were totally ineffective & not in interests of Pakistan, they were doing more harm than good, then suddenly from no where Hell fires sent BM to hell, there are different theories of how American Intelligence was tricked by ISI to strike the BM's location, this theory may sound weird but taking into consideration the past acts by CIA to avoid hitting BM, it has got some weight in it, any ways one way or other BM got killed, after that again there came a wave of ineffective drone strikes which were doing more harm than good but then again something terrible happened for Americans i.e a Jordanian Triple Agent Killed like 20 CIA agents in Kabul & a video came on air in which That Jordanian was seen with Hakeem Ullah Mehsud & stunningly the very next day drones struck & Hakeem Ullah was sent to hell & then came some more pin pointed Drone Strikes which killed a Shadow Governor & one Top Thug of Haqqani Group,

conclusion
Americans were making distinction b/w Good & Bad Taliban, there was trust defect but when the Good Taliban for Americans were found linked with that triple agent things changed, Americans & Pakistanis had trust deficit removed & suddenly all of the Taliban leaders started falling out of the sky(Mullah Bradar etc), Drones are doing the right thing for now & with deadly accuracy, collateral damage is part of every war, it cannot be zero it can be only minimized
 
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DaRk WaVe

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ahmedsid said:
Pakistani Army lacks the intelligence in the NW i feel. Most of their intelligence officials might have been killed off, or assimilated into the Taliban.
I am not going to deny the assimilation of some intelligence elements into Taliban but this is no way means Pak is lagging in intelligence gathering, the fact that Operations are successful & many of the Taliban leaders are caught by Pakistan ,with the biggest catch in WoT up-till now it in its name, shows that Pakistan is in no way lagging in field of intelligence gathering & covert operations
 

Yusuf

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Selective capture of Taliban is whats happening. Recently the release of some Talibanis by Pakistan was in the news. This ambigous stand with strategic depth in mind after the US leaves is certainly going to cost dearly. Not only for the US and India too, but also Pakistan.
 

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