2020 US election and its Impact on India Megathread

[Suryavanshi]

there are more than one choke point for the big tech and those are hardware, cloud, data centers, support applets etc.
This all can be countered if gov temporarily bans the fuck out of SM, WhatsApp and Twitter have enough shit stacked against them, if BJP can pull a CAA, 370 and Ram mandir than courts aren't as formidable as we thought.
We are already trying to be the next Chip manufacturing giant, software we already rule, data center shouldn't be a problem once hardware price go down.

 

[ezsasa]

We can replace whatsapp , gmail , twitter . replacement may not have all the functionality,still its doable.

But something like google search engine , seems like impossible to me.

Also GOI already has a whatsapp clone

Mobile app GIMS | Official Website of e-Committee, Supreme Court of India | India

doc

https://www.gims.gov.in/resources/um/qrg.pdf

download link

Sandes Portal, Government Instant Messaging System, Government of India

www.gims.gov.in

duckduckgo is there for search engine alternative. Haven’t used much.

 

[Tumba]

there are more than one choke point for the big tech and those are hardware, cloud, data centers, support applets etc.
This all can be countered if gov temporarily bans the fuck out of SM, WhatsApp and Twitter have enough shit stacked against them, if BJP can pull a CAA, 370 and Ram mandir than courts aren't as formidable as we thought.
We are already trying to be the next Chip manufacturing giant, software we already rule, data center shouldn't be a problem once hardware price go down.

chip manufacturing ... we didnt even start with that for now...

for DRDO/ISRO & BARC usage we manufacture 128nm with the help of Israeli tools...

India needs to invite Taiwan's chip manufacturers with pet market lure and tax holiday for a decade or more... with SEZ ...
ideal places are in Bengal/Kerala due to adequate water resources... and closer to shipping facilities

 

[Roshan]

House: Amazon, Facebook, Apple, Google have “monopoly power,” should be split

Blockbuster report calls for beefing up enforcement and aiming for breakups.

arstechnica.com

 

[shade]

"faceberg" is 100 million+ lines of code.

Easy to say. In reality even simple gov sites are shit.

These things only appear simple , reality is different.

Issue with app stores is we need apps.Developers have to put their apps on it and actively update and support it.Chinese are trying to do this but they will fail.

You already have app stores and apps.
You already have fb/whatsapp/twitter clones here.
But like lurkerbaba mentioned "network effect" or whatever is the term, once the public is used to google/facebook/twitter/whatsapp whatever, they won't switch to some other "competitor" platform.
Unless ofc it is forced through a ban.

100 million loc is because faceberg is much more than basic SM features, they are a games platform, realtime chat and video calling platform, the AI/ML recommendation engine, Facebook ads, and a bunch of other things, + the need for backend systems to support 100 million + users world wide, but the basic features can be cloned as a minimum viable product, that many have already done with their own "spin" on things, like there is this one desi SM that only allows Indian languages.

In any case things will only "start" once government drops the ban hammer, or atleast starts with long drawn "harassment" first so that people get enough time, funding and employees to build up a counter and get them up to speed, or scale up whatever counter they already have.
Now we all know that is very unlikely to happen, these Big Tech walas have a very strong lobby here, understandably, and have the backing of their country's establishment also if necessary.

 

[shade]

chip manufacturing ... we didnt even start with that for now...

for DRDO/ISRO & BARC usage we manufacture 128nm with the help of Israeli tools...

India needs to invite Taiwan's chip manufacturers with pet market lure and tax holiday for a decade or more... with SEZ ...
ideal places are in Bengal/Kerala due to adequate water resources... and closer to shipping facilities

Won't happen, the current EOI or whatever is it is too half assed at the part of the Govt, semiconductor fabrication is not given priority which it should to be given.
Fabs basically need strong government backing for atleast a decade, and ofc this government isn't interested in making new PSUs or giving "strong" backing to any such "long term" industry.

This drama of Fab was seen from 2014-2019, nothing came of it, private sector either has no money, or is trouser shivering because of the risk and high capex involved in Fabs with Govt support being non-existent.

 

[spikey360]

Social Networks work a little differently because of Network Effect - their value is proportional to the number of users. No network, no matter how technically good it is can be popular if there isn't a mass base. Take the recent hooplah over Whatsapp TOS. Sure some people may join Signal etc but the vast majority will remain on Whatsapp.

If you want to control these networks, then sure harassment may work. But if you truly want an alternative then bans are the only way it can be done. $$ won't work either because the bigger networks can outspend you

I'd like to add to that assessment.

Spoiler: Off-topic

Most people who are using these apps are not too bothered if their porn browsing history is stored forever for analysis in some server farm in USA. They are not too bothered if their chat histories with their mistresses are known to Faceberg or WhatsnotApp.
To them, these are acceptable things, because they do not assess themselves as anyone worthy enough who may be target of character assassination or identity theft.
Ria Chakraborty case should have been an eye-opener.

 

[Illusive]

duckduckgo is there for search engine alternative. Haven’t used much.

I use it and the browser also for phone, cant get rid of chrome though.

 

[ClawReed787]

I use it and the browser also for phone, cant get rid of chrome though.

Any Indian ones go is American?

 

[Illusive]

This should be our target

Mail and chat services should be given with BHIM app only.

GDrive alt is Mega.NZ, Indian alternative don't know.

Instagram FB Twitter Youtube is not easy to remove, what can be done is they go through a firewall. But this is a double edged sword. Without proper checks and balances anything can be misused.

 

[LurkerBaba]

"faceberg" is 100 million+ lines of code.

Easy to say. In reality even simple gov sites are shit.

These things only appear simple , reality is different.

Issue with app stores is we need apps.Developers have to put their apps on it and actively update and support it.Chinese are trying to do this but they will fail.

Its not simple and yes the government makes shitty products. But Indian tech industry is capable.

Remember Hike ? It was good enough, but ultimately lost to the likes of Messenger and WhatsApp

Here some protectionism would have helped, but I'm sure many people on "our side" would have started screaming "license raj". I remember having a discussion in 2016 and being shouted down as a "jholawallah" by our resident economists https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/net-neutrality-in-india.75487/page-3#post-1133743

Social Networks are fundamentally different from TV and Radio and even regular IT industry. To regulate it we need policy by smart folks from a Computer Science and ex-Big tech background

 

[LurkerBaba]

LB- you really think FreeBasics can kill the innovation sector in India?

1) There is Competition Commission of India which could have been approached later if there were monopoly problems rather than shooting it down right now. For eg: If FB only allows Amazon app which captures large market share, other retailers can approach CCI.

2) And second- if FreeBasics really becomes a gated community, then other competitors will and can break that monopoly given FB's restrictive nature. If FB only allows Amazon app for free, while a parallel network allows Amazon as well as Snapdeal, many users will choose 2nd option given the flexibility it provides. It is simply stupid to think that people won't pay few bucks to buy better service especially given the rising income levels in India.

What you are confusing is that Facebook itself enjoys network benefits, because it makes sense for everyone to coordinate and use Facebook. This would not be true for FreeBasics, everyone is not going to use FreeBasics because everyone else is using FreeBasics(no network effect). They would use/not use FreeBasics depending on whether it fits their purpose. There are just too many applications out there to monitor--if you think FB would really act as a doorkeeper to everything, it is not possible. This is exactly why Microsoft has to change its model to crowdsourcing, post Android. Yes, there are developers who only build stuff for Android, but there are many who build for both iOS and Android. Same would be true for freeBasics.

And btw, if FaceBook really becomes like License Raj 2.0, without state protection it will simply fail. People became smugglers under License Raj 1.0. If there was no state coercion it would have simply failed. If FreeBasics really becomes LR 2.0, it will first lose developers and then customers.

Really old post where members were saying that walled gardens are fine, protection of open web isn't a big deal and the worst bit "approach the Competition Commission of India" if one App Store banns another app

Well, in 2020 Parler has been de-platformed by both Google and Apple. Independent regulators in the most powerful country in the world couldn't do shit about it !

 

[Cruise missile]

Really old post where members were saying that walled gardens are fine, protection of open web isn't a big deal and the worst bit "approach the Competition Commission of India" if one App Store banns another app

Well, in 2020 Parler has been de-platformed by both Google and Apple. Independent regulators in the most powerful country in the world couldn't do shit about it !

Tables turned very fast.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Really old post where members were saying that walled gardens are fine, protection of open web isn't a big deal and the worst bit "approach the Competition Commission of India" if one App Store banns another app

Well, in 2020 Parler has been de-platformed by both Google and Apple. Independent regulators in the most powerful country in the world couldn't do shit about it !

Also, it was one of the rare posts where I lost it and banned @Mad Indian aka @YagamiLight

I could see the problem from afar (because I've been working in this industry) but our "rw people" were going "reeee free markets"

 

[Suryavanshi]

Also, it was one of the rare posts where I lost it and banned @Mad Indian aka @YagamiLight

Hello based department

 

[Tumba]

Won't happen, the current EOI or whatever is it is too half assed at the part of the Govt, semiconductor fabrication is not given priority which it should to be given.
Fabs basically need strong government backing for atleast a decade, and ofc this government isn't interested in making new PSUs or giving "strong" backing to any such "long term" industry.

This drama of Fab was seen from 2014-2019, nothing came of it, private sector either has no money, or is trouser shivering because of the risk and high capex involved in Fabs with Govt support being non-existent.

from what I know Modi Govt tried to set up fabs but the partner was adamant on majority Govt. inputs and minority govt share holdings ...

so basically deal was Govt will provide almost dirt cheap land, resources, tax breaks invest almost 10 billion a year ...
obviously we are not China ... so nothing went ahead...

Sometimes democracy does cockblock things... Modi Govt cant put 10 billion on GTRE and 10 on Fab a year CAG report will give too much ammunition to congi kabal.. doesnt matter hw much necessary these crown techs are for India

Will some day private co will start doing fab manufacture yea thr is a chance when India reaches almost china's electronic manufacturing of 5 years ago... and chip import becomes one of the major import items.

 

[Nicky G]

So email and merchandise removed as well. They will destroy the Trump empire and make an example out of him, so no one dares to try and defy them.

 

[Cheran]

So email and merchandise removed as well. They will destroy the Trump empire and make an example out of him, so no one dares to try and defy them.

Swamp strikes back with the greatest vengeance.

 

[notaname]

So email and merchandise removed as well. They will destroy the Trump empire and make an example out of him, so no one dares to try and defy them.

So, this means from now on if right wing is in opposition they need to have thier own IT infrastructure to reach for people the big techs will not allow that.

 

[indus]

"faceberg" is 100 million+ lines of code.

Easy to say. In reality even simple gov sites are shit.

These things only appear simple , reality is different.

Aint we brag that majority of Google, Facebook employees in Silicon valley are of Indian origin. We have lakhs of software coolies who could write millions of code. Infact most IT freshers join as coders or testers only. What we lack is innovation, R& D. By now we shld have developed own software packages, languages, systems. But we havent. Because similar to other industries we want to become service providers rather than innovators. I dont know whether these big IT firms TCS, Infy etc have an RnD dept or not. If they have why dont they work on the future tech.