1971 Indo-Pak War and foreign involvement

trackwhack

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That would be for US-Bangladesh relationship. Nothing for India to demand. India did the right thing, US was against it at that time.

All international relationships are for enhancing self-interests, strategic or otherwise. Its delusional to think otherwise. Indo-US relationship will do just fine and will get better over time.
Of course an apology to India is due for the following reasons.

1) For inciting the Chinese to threaten with War
2) For sending in a carrier fleet into the Bay of Bengal with the absolute intention of conflict.
 

nitesh

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Actually Late Mr. PVN wanted to make pakis world problem by doing Pokharan II in 1995 only, but decided against it. It was Mr. Vajpayee who succeeded in doing it. Till the time pakis where covertly nuclear, it was all good, both so called powerful patrons where trying to use their pat dog to unleash hell upon us. Once they became overtly nuclear, the genie was out of the bottle. And we are seeing the results. Now the paki army is sufficiently weak, where distinction between terrorists in uniform (those who believe in Ghazwa-e-hind), and terrorists (who just want to fight the whole world) is gone. All the nukes although officially still pointed towards India, slowly chances of them pointing towards their patrons is getting higher. Or they are already pointing, hence the flow of Jaziya is constant with some minor hiccups here and there.
 

LETHALFORCE

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Recalling the India-Pakistan war of 1971 - Hindustan Times

Recalling the India-Pakistan war of 1971


Malice I
The high-water mark of my journalistic career was reporting the Indo-Pak War of 1971 for the New York Times. I had the rare opportunity of meeting some of the leading characters of this dramatic episode in history including Sheikh Mujibur Rehman, known as Banga


Bandhu, Maulana Bhashani and General Jagjit Singh Aurora. A year earlier I had been commissioned by the Indian Government to write a booklet on the influx of over 3 million Hindu refugees from East Pakistan. I was then editing Yojna. I spent a week visiting refugee camps with a Bengali photographer to help me out with my language problem. My lengthy report was published by the Government under the title No Wanted In Pakistan".
Prime Minister Indira Gandhi realised that Pakistan was never likely to take back the refugees. And India could not afford to absorb them. She first tried to convince the
western countries and briefed them on the predicament India was facing. War with Pakistan could no longer be avoided.

She faked the hi-jacking of an Indian plane by Pakistan and forbade their planes flying over India. By then the Indian Air Force had bombed the run-way of Dhaka Airport and made lit difficult for Pakistani planes stationed there to be able to take off. With a single direct strike it also knocked down Pakistani Air Force quarters across the road from the airport. By then our Army had infiltrated over 40 miles into East Pakistan and our officers were heading many units of Mukti Bahini. The people of East Pakistan had been subjected to severe cruelties and humiliations by General Tikka Khan, regarded as "the butcher of Bangladesh".

Thousands of innocent Bangladeshis had been killed, their women raped and the Hindu population forced to migrate to India. By the time Pakistan declared War against India, the Indian Army was more than 40 miles into East Pakistan and welcomed by the locals. The strategy worked out by General Manekshaw and his advisers paid handsome dividends. Our Army avoided direct conflict with the Pakistani Army. Instead it by-passed them till lit got to the capital, Dhaka. It overwhelmed the Pakistani units posted there. The Pakistani Army was left with no option but to admit defeat. 93,000 Pakistani solders laid down arms to become prisoners of India. The victory was acclaimed as a jewel in India's crown. Indira Gandhi, who masterminded the aftermath, was conferred Bharat Ratna.

An amusing episode remains in my mind. A German journalist who relied heavily on information I gave him wanted to repay me. He asked me "do you know the war cry of the Mukti Bahini?

I replied I did not know they had such a thing as a war cry. "They have," he insisted, "I will tell you for all the help you have given me, is Sat Sri Akal."

A Genius Born
If I were asked if I had ever met a genius, I would reply promptly, "yes one — Vikram Seth". Two of his works have attained literary immortality — The Golden Gate — a long love epic told in Sonnet form and A Suitable Boy, a lengthy novel about present-day India which will never get dated.

Vikram is a phenomenon. He can pick up a new language in a couple of days. Last year when attending a conference of Malayali writers, when asked to speak he wrote out his message in Malayam. The next evening he happened to be in my home. He wrote out a message for me in Urdu. He loves calligraphy in all languages, particularly Chinese written downwards. He can write languages written from left to right as well as those written from right to left. His latest offering to The Rivered Earth (Hamish Hamilton an imprint of Penguin Books).

Vikram Seth was born in Calcutta in 1952. His parents are Punjabi. He is a product of the Doon Public School and Tonbridge Wells. He graduated from Corpus Christi College, Oxford where he also studied Chinese. Then he moved to Stanford University, USA to do a course in Creative Writing. Finally, he joined Nanjing University, China. He spent two years there translating classical Chinese poets. When there was turmoil in China, he made his way through Tibet to his homeland India. He has settled in England and frequently visits his parent in Delhi.

The Rivered Earth has a baffling variety of poems, many inspired by the Vedas, a few by latter day Urdu poets. I give one example of a poem entitled Fire:
Mother, give me the moon
I want it as my toy.
Mother, I want it soon
Or I'll be papa's boy.
No, I won't plait my hair.
I won't go but to play
I'll sulk on the ground all day.
I won't come to your lap — so there!
Nor will I drink this milk from Surabhi, our cow.
Mother, I want the moon – and I want it now.
Here in this bucket filled with water it scatters.
But that one there never
shatters.
Cold in its silver fire,
Climbing higher and higher
I now know, mother
You only love Balram, my brother.
Who loves to drive me wild.
He says you bought me, that I'm not your child;
No, don't sing me a tune
Mother, give me the moon.
The moon, the moon.

Needle Therapy
A friend of mine went to a lecture on acupuncture. "The audience was so fascinated," he told me afterwards, "that you could have heard a pin drop."
(Contributed by Reeten Ganguly, Tezpur)
 

LETHALFORCE

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US promised India help if China attacked during 1971 Indo-Pak war - Times Of India

US promised India help if China attacked during 1971 Indo-Pak war



NEW DELHI: Despite its intense animosity towards India during the 1971 war, the US promised New Delhi "all out" support in case China carried out any unprovoked attack on India, recently declassified documents reveal 40 years after the historic war that created Bangladesh.

The revelations add fresh twist to the narrative of the Indo-Pak war of 1971. Based on a set of freshly declassified documents of the ministry of external affairs, TOI had in early November reported that the US hostility towards India during the 1971 war was far beyond what was publicly known. And that the US had probably also prepared a few Marine battalions for operations against the Indian military.

Communications of the Indian embassy in Washington and of the government in New Delhi show that US offered "all out" help if China were to enter the Indo-Pak standoff to favour its all-weather friend.

After a meeting with Henry Kissinger, then adviser to President Richard Nixon, on August 25, 1971, Indian ambassador to the US L K Jha reported to New Delhi, "He said that in a 1962 type of situation, US will not hesitate to give all out help to India against China, and there is no change of position on this." Kissinger was referring to the military conflict between India and China in 1962 in which India was humiliated.

A few weeks before this meeting, during a visit to New Delhi, Kissinger told then defence minister Jagjivan Ram, "I might tell you that we would take a very grave view of any Chinese move against India."

Ambassador Jha had spent three hours with Kissinger in San Clemente White House, the vacation home of Nixon, on August 25, as tension mounted in South Asia. They discussed details of issues that could crop up in an upcoming meeting between then PM Indira Gandhi and Nixon.

But "in this one (letter to foreign secretary T N Kaul), I am dealing with one specific point relating to the US attitude in the event of China joining on the side of Pakistan in a conflict with us", the ambassador wrote. Discussions with Kissinger on possible Chinese aggression were prompted by queries from New Delhi, the letter shows. New Delhi was worried that China could open a second front against India, even as it fought Pakistan. Such a collaboration between China and Pakistan still remains a worry for the Indian security establishment.

"Then I asked that in order to be quite clear and free from any ambiguity or doubt, I would welcome a fuller formulation from him of the US position in case we are involved in any kind of a conflict with China." In response, Kissinger offered "all out" help in case of a 1962 type situation. Then he went on to discuss other possible scenarios.

"If it was a 1965 type of Pakistani attack, then even without Chinese involvement, US would take the toughest measures against Pakistan, and if China came to its help, it would not hesitate to help us with arms, though not with men," Jha wrote. The situation Kissinger referred was an unprovoked Pakistani aggression.

"However, the chances were that if the present situation escalates into a conflict, it would be very hard to tell who is to blame. Thus, if India sent two divisions of irregulars into East Bengal and Pakistanis sent four such divisions into Kashmir, it would not be a situation in which the US could possibly help even if China threw its weight on the side of Pakistan," Kissinger told Jha, according to the ambassador's letter.

This letter from the Indian ambassador was seen by the foreign minister, the secretary to the prime minister and most other senior officials.
 

JayATL

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You want to know about US role? 7th Fleet.

Unilateral action? Umm, nope, rather tri-lateral, mainly Indian Military, but also Mukti Bahini and the Soviet Navy (they deterred the 7th Fleet).

Pakistan is also PRC's best friend, I'm sure you'll agree to that, and in 1971, was supported by the US as well. Funny you never mentioned Pakistani dictators in your opening post. Anyways, BlackWater did the favour. Thanks BlackWater.

JayATL, you said, "we the US made mistakes and we learn from them, dumped genocidal dictators," but I see that the US is still funding Pakistan.
Let me understand the mighty US sent one fleet as their grand war plan to take on India or Russia. Thats what you logic reads as . the fact they did not do anything other a drive by, is not US supporting genocide. You need to learn that when we want to stop something we know how to do it.

secondly, you seem to be hurt by Pakistan not being included. I was doing list of genocial dictators supported by china and not US. and we have learned our lesson to where we don't support Pakistan's terrorists or dictators. . We forced Musharaff to hold elections. We are funding to have them killed ( terrorist), we are pissing on their sovereignty every day...we are deriding them in public often. Pakistan is warned , talked to like a punk and told that all funding is towards Afghanistan and not to mess with India.
 

pmaitra

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Let me understand the mighty US sent one fleet as their grand war plan to take on India or Russia. Thats what you logic reads as . the fact they did not do anything other a drive by, is not US supporting genocide. You need to learn that when we want to stop something we know how to do it.
Drive by? LOL. Don't confuse Russia with the USSR. The US was scared away by the USSR.

secondly, you seem to be hurt by Pakistan not being included. I was doing list of genocial dictators supported by china and not US. and we have learned our lesson to where we don't support Pakistan's terrorists or dictators. . We forced Musharaff to hold elections. We are funding to have them killed ( terrorist), we are pissing on their sovereignty every day...we are deriding them in public often. Pakistan is warned , talked to like a punk and told that all funding is towards Afghanistan and not to mess with India.
Pakistan has always been supported by PRC, including, in 1971-72.
 

pmaitra

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Seroiusly, you need to learn the art of arguing..... US dint support the Bengali genocide but blocked any moves against it.... So how was it any different from anything what the Chinese do right now???? Dont bring in these points.... It will make you look like a :laugh:
Not only that, (1) the US threatened to attack India if India supported Mukti Bahini and (2) prodded PRC to invade India. However, Pakistan was already a friend of PRC.

Thankfully, USSR told PRC that they will nuke PRC if PRC invaded India and sent it's own vessels that made the US 7th Fleet scoot away from that region. The USSR also got all the Warsaw Pact countries to recognise Bangladesh's independence. On the other hand, the US Congress was critical of the genocide and did not want the US to support Pakistan, but then, Nixon was just being Nixon.
 

pmaitra

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If sending a ship(s) sitting ildly and not doing anything - is called supporting genocide and equal to what china does, then I be happily know as a fool by fools. Tell us what indian military ( navy, airforce, army) move was stopped , hampered or blocked by the US.
JayATL, I don't think you know much about what happened then, or are embarrassed to admit it, by virtue of the country of your adoption. Don't confuse your obligation to be patriotic with your obligation to speak the truth.

When we mention US, we are not pointing fingers at the people of US. It was mainly Nixon. I appreciate the stand taken by the US Congress which was ignored by Nixon, because he thought he was smarter than the rest, just like you.
 

JayATL

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Not only that, (1) the US threatened to attack India if India supported Mukti Bahini and (2) prodded PRC to invade India. However, Pakistan was already a friend of PRC.

Thankfully, USSR told PRC that they will nuke PRC if PRC invaded India and sent it's own vessels that made the US 7th Fleet scoot away from that region. The USSR also got all the Warsaw Pact countries to recognise Bangladesh's independence. On the other hand, the US Congress was critical of the genocide and did not want the US to support Pakistan, but then, Nixon was just being Nixon.
and then this one time in band camp, we heard :rofl:

That what it sounds like.Like stories made up in comic books , revisionist history.

" US wanted the PRC but the PRC was friend with the Pakistanis and the Ruskies threatened nukes. But some how the ruskies never threatened Nukes when they were being killed in Afghanistan ( who cares for actual russian lives)- BUT HEY! they certainly would have nuked everyone for India :D

Funny stuff that works in yall's head. It is still baffling how you actually believe that US came with one fleet to take on everyone. after all the claim is made that they came to stop India with few ships . Brilliant!
 

pmaitra

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and then this one time in band camp, we heard :rofl:
Band camp only? So you didn't make it to a military camp, did you? Your loud and verbose comments confirm that.

That what it sounds like.Like stories made up in comic books , revisionist history.
How about you sound like another deluded Zaid Hamid?

" US wanted the PRC but the PRC was friend with the Pakistanis and the Ruskies threatened nukes. But some how the ruskies never threatened Nukes when they were being killed in Afghanistan ( who cares for actual russian lives)- BUT HEY! they certainly would have nuked everyone for India :D
The Soviets actually fought a war with PRC, but then, you probably don't know that.

Funny stuff that works in yall's head. It is still baffling how you actually believe that US came with one fleet to take on everyone. after all the claim is made that they came to stop India with few ships . Brilliant!
Yes Sir, they had already chalked out plans to bomb the hell out of Calcutta and Visakhapatnam. However, if you want to believe they came here to take some stunning photographs of the flying fish, by all means do so.

 

JayATL

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Band camp only? So you didn't make it to a military camp, did you? Your loud and verbose comments confirm that.



How about you sound like another deluded Zaid Hamid?



The Soviets actually fought a war with PRC, but then, you probably don't know that.



Yes Sir, they had already chalked out plans to bomb the hell out of Calcutta and Visakhapatnam. However, if you want to believe they came here to take some stunning photographs of the flying fish, by all means do so.

LOL, wtf has soviet fighting a war with PRC have to do with me laughing at your statement that soviets were ready to nuke the US and that the US CAME TO A FIGHT WITH 3-4 SHIPS ONLY! no back ups, no contigency plan, no authorization from the congress to start world war 3... just a 3-4 ships :rofl:

US had a plan to bomb Calcutta and entire India? LOL . you are cracking me up. there is not semblance of logical thinking here. This is going downhill.
 

pmaitra

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LOL, wtf has soviet fighting a war with PRC have to do with me laughing at your statement that soviets were ready to nuke the US and that the US CAME TO A FIGHT WITH 3-4 SHIPS ONLY! no back ups, no contigency plan,
Read my post again. The USSR threatened to nuke PRC if they invaded India.

no authorization from the congress to start world war 3... just a 3-4 ships :rofl:
How many of the recent US invasions had authorisation of the Congress?

US had a plan to bomb Calcutta and entire India? LOL . you are cracking me up. there is not semblance of logical thinking here. This is going downhill.
I am cracking you up, am I not? I am dead serious. Perhaps you are on crack, that's why you are cracking up.
 

JayATL

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Read my post again. The USSR threatened to nuke PRC if they invaded India.



How many of the recent US invasions had authorisation of the Congress?



I am cracking you up, am I not? I am dead serious. Perhaps you are on crack, that's why you are cracking up.
For starting world war 3 , I would imagine even your lack of logic would agree that congress would need to approve it. Plus Nixon was no Bush to go for it without approval. he could move locations of ships, but that's all.

USSR would Nuke a Nuclear weaponized country ( china) over India, but sat there and got killed by the thousands in afghanistan without issuing any such threat. :rolleyes:
 

pmaitra

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For starting world war 3 , I would imagine even your lack of logic would agree that congress would need to approve it. Plus Nixon was no Bush to go for it without approval. he could move locations of ships, but that's all.

USSR would Nuke a Nuclear weaponized country ( china) over India, but sat there and got killed by the thousands in afghanistan without issuing any such threat. :rolleyes:
World War 3? If your comments are not related to what I have written, then please don't quote me.

It's not even funny.
 

JayATL

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World War 3? If your comments are not related to what I have written, then please don't quote me.

It's not even funny.
war between USSR , US and China would not be called world war - Oh my...:thumb:

I'll tell you what I'm debating pure unadulterated propaganda bullshit. I can't win. Yes US came to fight everyone with 3-4 ships and were pro genocide in Bangladesh :) Delhi Bob.

Off to download windows 8 and try it out!
 
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Payeng

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The US leaded the flop SEATO of which Pakistan was a member and as per the treaty any attack upon a member nation was to be taken as an attack upon the whole military bloc, later due to the failure of Uncle to protect its nephew ultimately resulted in termination of Pakistani membership from SEATO, note that Pakistan was also the member of CENTO leaded by UK which rejected the idea of attacking India :cool:
 

Payeng

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war between USSR , US and China would not be called world war - Oh my...:thumb:

I'll tell you what I'm debating pure unadulterated propaganda bullshit. I can't win. Yes US came to fight everyone with 3-4 ships and were pro genocide in Bangladesh :) Delhi Bob.

Off to download windows 8 and try it out!
Ever heard about Task Force 74?
 

pmaitra

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Ever heard about Task Force 74?
Great post.

Here are the details:

Task Force 74

The US Task Force 74 was a US Navy task force of the United States Seventh Fleet that was deployed to the Bay of Bengal by Nixon administration in December 1971, at the height of the 1971 Indo-Pak War. Led by the Aircraft Carrier USS Enterprise, the deployment of the task force was seen as a Show of force by USA in support of the beleaguered West Pakistani forces, and was claimed by India as an indication of US "tilt" towards Pakistan at a time that Indian forces were close to capturing Dhaka. The Task Force withdrew from the Bay of Bengal after reports of Soviet submarines dispatched to shadow the fleet.[1][2] The Task Force number is now used by the Seventh Fleet's Submarine Force.

Read more: Task Force 74 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Deployment of the Task force

The Task force was to be headed by USS Enterprise (+1), at the time the largest Aircraft carrier in the world. In addition, it consisted of Amphibious assault carrier USS Tripoli (+1), carrying a 200 strong Marine battalion and twenty five assault helicopters; The three (+3) Guided Missile escorts USS King, Decatur, and Parsons; four (+4) gun Destroyers USS Bausell, Orleck, McKean and Anderson; and a (+1) nuclear attack submarine.[2] The Enterprise was assigned by the Central authority, while the other ships were assigned by local commanders.[18] Enterprise was at this time at the Tonkin Gulf area. Recovering her airborne aircraft and transferring personnel who were required to stay to the USS Constellation, she prepared to head off. The task force was delayed while the support ships refueled, it held off East of Singapore, and was ordered into the Indian ocean on 14 December.[18] crossed Malacca straits on the nights of 13–14 December and entered the Bay of Bengal on the morning of 15 December.[2] The group was required to proceed slowly, averaging a speed of 15 Knots, both to conserve fuel as well as to allow advance information on its heading.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Task_Force_74#Deployment_of_the_Task_force
In total, there were 10 ships. 3-4 ships, JayATL? You should be ashamed to be so ignorant yet so loud.
 

Payeng

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For starting world war 3 , I would imagine even your lack of logic would agree that congress would need to approve it. Plus Nixon was no Bush to go for it without approval. he could move locations of ships, but that's all.

USSR would Nuke a Nuclear weaponized country ( china) over India, but sat there and got killed by the thousands in afghanistan without issuing any such threat. :rolleyes:
1. I am surprised that you are unaware of the Power exercised by the President of United States of America. Your President is more powerful then the congress even after the War Powers Resolution of 1973.
2. I think you had not studied cold war politics and history well, go through it you will find your answer within it. Hint is: cold war politics, Cuba missile crisis.
 

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