India opens bids in $10.4-bn combat plane tender.

"So when will the results be out?"

When asking questions like this, feel like college days again!

Tolaha said:

"So when will the results be out?"

When asking questions like this, feel like college days again!

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You will have to get in line...

PICTURE: Raptor snapshots by the Rafale

The imagery was released as part of a plug for the Rafale's infrared search and track sensor, called the Thales front sector optronics system.




old photo

This aircraft has only one way to be accepted into the IAF. That is by making the bulk of the payment due on the backend of the deal. If not , anyone who supports this deal is, well, anti Indian. You can't tell me that paying almost 20 billion for a deal that would be at worst 12-13 billion is worth it. That is stupid, assanine, selfish of expecting tax payers pay such a high premium.

We are not talking an extra 100 million , we are not talking an extra 700 million, we are talking about 3-5 billion dollars more... Bulk of which is upfront payment

Found this very funny and intresting picture for
rafale mid life upgrade
on net.
.
.

JayATL said:

This aircraft has only one way to be accepted into the IAF. That is by making the bulk of the payment due on the backend of the deal. If not , anyone who supports this deal is, well, anti Indian. You can't tell me that paying almost 20 billion for a deal that would be at worst 12-13 billion is worth it. That is stupid, assanine, selfish of expecting tax payers pay such a high premium.

We are not talking an extra 100 million , we are not talking an extra 700 million, we are talking about 3-5 billion dollars more... Bulk of which is upfront payment

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Then who is going to give us said technology. Rafale and EF are currently the most advanced 4.5th gen capable fighters on offer anywhere. Don't say SH or F-35. SH is too old and was always at the bottom of the points chart in every competition. F-35 too new and will remain new until 2020(FOC).

Let's not forget we cannot design aircraft of our own. $20Billion does not just buy us planes, it buys us technology of which we have nothing of our own to compete with. Don't talk about LCA. Both MK1 and Mk2 are glorified Mig-21s, really. Don't talk about AMCA because even the design phase has not started. Don't talk of PAKFA because it is simply an aircraft for a different requirement. This deal isn't just about cost. It is about technology and new manufacturing practices that HAL needs to learn before PAKFA and AMCA starts production. A few Billion is nothing.

Heck the Israelis rip us off openly and they even say they are ripping us off when they sell. Americans won't be the same. Out of all the C-130, C-17 sales made till date, India has paid the most out of all countries buying the same. The GE F-414 engine with ToT came at $8.5Million a piece for the LCA. At the same time, USAF gets the engines for $3.5million a piece. The difference of $5Million apiece is ToT and industrial costs along with the costs for doing business. The French are expecting $2Billion for Kaveri II alone as initial costs and we are ready to pay for it while UAE is cribbing about paying $2Billion extra for the entire Rafale program for 60 jets with new engines. When we buy stuff we buy top of the line stuff. You don't go to a Armani store and then say that Peter England is looking good now. You go to an Armani store and buy Armani. We aren't poor anymore, so let's not act like one. Our negotiators are among the best on the planet, we can trust them to get us the best deal.

Russians are slowly learning the trade of ripping us off, but they are still cheaper than all our suppliers.

Rafale FTW!

Govt to announce winner for 126-plus combat jets in 2012 - dnaindia.com/mobile

The defence ministry has not set any deadline to the process, but it could be a New Year gift to the Indian Air Force as the announcement could come around mid-January.

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This was quite expected. But it's not over until the Fat Lady sings.

p2prada said:

Then who is going to give us said technology. Rafale and EF are currently the most advanced 4.5th gen capable fighters on offer anywhere. Don't say SH or F-35. SH is too old and was always at the bottom of the points chart in every competition. F-35 too new and will remain new until 2020(FOC).

Let's not forget we cannot design aircraft of our own. $20Billion does not just buy us planes, it buys us technology of which we have nothing of our own to compete with. Don't talk about LCA. Both MK1 and Mk2 are glorified Mig-21s, really. Don't talk about AMCA because even the design phase has not started. Don't talk of PAKFA because it is simply an aircraft for a different requirement. This deal isn't just about cost. It is about technology and new manufacturing practices that HAL needs to learn before PAKFA and AMCA starts production. A few Billion is nothing.

Heck the Israelis rip us off openly and they even say they are ripping us off when they sell. Americans won't be the same. Out of all the C-130, C-17 sales made till date, India has paid the most out of all countries buying the same. The GE F-414 engine with ToT came at $8.5Million a piece for the LCA. At the same time, USAF gets the engines for $3.5million a piece. The difference of $5Million apiece is ToT and industrial costs along with the costs for doing business. The French are expecting $2Billion for Kaveri II alone as initial costs and we are ready to pay for it while UAE is cribbing about paying $2Billion extra for the entire Rafale program for 60 jets with new engines. When we buy stuff we buy top of the line stuff. You don't go to a Armani store and then say that Peter England is looking good now. You go to an Armani store and buy Armani. We aren't poor anymore, so let's not act like one. Our negotiators are among the best on the planet, we can trust them to get us the best deal.

Russians are slowly learning the trade of ripping us off, but they are still cheaper than all our suppliers.

Rafale FTW!

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You don't buy any right now. That's the answer... You don't need to.. You don't need it for against Pak and you have no threat of war with china. China will Fvuk with you guys in SChina sea and not attack your borders...

Go for 5th gen with f35 if they give you what you want and you don't have to invest but millions to join JSF for now. You get exact deal and maybe more than other NATO partners

Bottom line is you don't need it now - there is a solution around it. You can route Pakistan without it...

JayATL said:

You don't buy any right now. That's the answer... You don't need to.. You don't need it for against Pak and you have no threat of war with china. China will Fvuk with you guys in SChina sea and not attack your borders...

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This is what was said exactly before the 1962 war. Our need is simply because by 2018 our squadron strength which should be around 34 will be 10-12 squadrons lesser. The 7 squadrons of MRCA and the remaining options for 3 are more than necessary.

After 9/11 there was no way in hell the Iraqis expected an invasion. Six months before Libya campaign the French wanted to sell Rafales to Gadaffi. Heck in 1971, even the US wanted a piece of the action in Bengal.

Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted.

Go for 5th gen with f35 if they give you what you want and you don't have to invest but millions to join JSF for now. You get exact deal and maybe more than other NATO partners

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Had the F-35 received IOC in 2012 and was in contention with high levels of ToT, right now we would be discussing how awesome the F-35 is. 2020 is when USAF will get the first FOC aircraft. India, no chance. IAF won't take a half finished aircraft before that.

We won't be inducting 3 fifth gen aircraft in the same timeline.

Bottom line is you don't need it now . You can route Pakistan without it...

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PAF can generate more sorties with their smaller aircraft while we cannot. Except for the MKIs, all our aircraft are a dying breed. No way we can fight a war like that. This could have worked had the LCA inductions started earlier. What we have now is overkill for PAF, but not as much against PLAAF. We need deterrent capability against both at once. PAF will induct aircraft at a faster rate than we do because of our bureaucratic bungling.

Considering PLAAF may induct 50-100 J-10Bs every year in a few years for a decade, there is no way we can go slow with our preparedness. IAF actually wants 60 squadrons, up from the current 34. They won't wait just because we want to save a few Billions. A loss of war against China may mean war damages in Hundreds of Billions and a major financial meltdown with investors running away from a potential weak country. Not worth the risk at all.

All that talk of South China Sea is BS simply because the adversary in the region is USN, not something they are ready for. IN sends something like 3 or 4 ships every year in that area. It's nothing compared to an entire USN CBG. PLAN won't sweat it out against USN and they won't bother as much against IN. China won't have the balls to try something like what they did with Vietnamese ships had US ships been there instead.

The problem is we don't know when China will be ready. If we don't buy the aircraft now, which was pending since the last decade(1999-2001 period), then we never will.

Bloody drama queens

Karthic Sri said:

Bloody drama queens

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It is an economic transaction. The decision will positively impact the economy. So, a lot of people are interested in every little news that comes out. I doubt you know how much information is sought after during acquisitions and merges of companies or even when smaller deals are made. The MRCA deal is worth $15Billion for the Indian industry and also offsets.

p2prada said:

It is an economic transaction. The decision will positively impact the economy. So, a lot of people are interested in every little news that comes out. I doubt you know how much information is sought after during acquisitions and merges of companies or even when smaller deals are made. The MRCA deal is worth $15Billion for the Indian industry and also offsets.

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yeah I hope i will give the news of selection as a wedding day present for my son 20 years hence.

I'm just tired of this drama.

bhramos said:

Govt to announce winner for 126-plus combat jets in 2012 - World - DNA

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Karthic Sri said:

Bloody drama queens

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i would like to say the same thing about this MRCA selection process that a hollywood director said after seeing raj kapoor's film AAN---'' it just goes awn and awn and awn !! ''

An artists impression, if Rafale joins IAF.

bhramos said:

An artists impression, if Rafale joins IAF.

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nice....however dont like the tricolor near the cockpit..it does not give it a meaner look.

Any deadlines given as to when we will know the decision.

The decision is coming.

So was Christmas.

Christmas has come and gone, but is Saint Anthony still in prayer with God and has not seen the correct vision?

Ray said:

Any deadlines given as to when we will know the decision.

The decision is coming.

So was Christmas.

Christmas has come and gone, but is Saint Anthony still in prayer with God and has not seen the correct vision?

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The deadline for bids expiry was December 31st. It is possible the L1 bidder may be determined by then but revealed only a week or two later, which does not really make much sense. Another option would be to simply ask the vendors to allow an extension to the bids, which I am sure they will be happy to oblige.

hussainattari said:

nice....however dont like the tricolor near the cockpit..it does not give it a meaner look.

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its just a fan boy pic, may be they might never look like this in real....

Combat jet deal to be finalised early next year