Sukhoi PAK FA

[bhramos]

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[bhramos]

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[asianobserve]

I thought PAKFA has integrated EOTs lik F-35, but look it has an external targeting pod hanging under its left engine:

And that's not going to help PAKFA's already questionable stealth qualities. Now, I understand why the IAF pulled out from it...

 

[bhramos]

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[bhramos]

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[Sancho]

I thought PAKFA has integrated EOTs lik F-35, but look it has an external targeting pod hanging under its left engine:

And that's not going to help PAKFA's already questionable stealth qualities. Now, I understand why the IAF pulled out from it...

Because you need internal targeting pod, when CAS weapons are carried externally? Poor try. :biggrin2:

 

[asianobserve]

Because you need internal targeting pod, when CAS weapons are carried externally? Poor try. :biggrin2:

How about day 1 attack since PAKFA is advertised by Russia as counterpart to both F-22 (air superiority) and F-35(multi-role)? Don't tell me "stealthy" "6th" (that's Russian propaganda) will carry its bombs internally and yet carry its targeting pod externally?

And how about the claim that Pakfa has the same level of sensor integration as F-35? It's targetting pod is bolt-on!:biggrin2:

 

[Sancho]

How about day 1 attack since PAKFA is advertised by Russia as counterpart to both F-22 (air superiority) and F-35(multi-role)?

You mean like this? =>

Even F22 uses GPS guided SDB1 and JDAM, in day 1 strikes, which doesn't require laser guidance.

Laser guidance is only required in CAS, when internal carriage of weapons or pods is not necessary anymore. That's why EOTS primary use, will be limited IRST and reconnaissance, when it finally gets all functions.
So in reconnaissance it will have advantages over Su 57, while the proper IRST outclasses the IRST modes of a sniper pod, just as the internal capacity for A2G weapons, from what we know so far, outclasses the "joint strike fighter" too.

And how about the claim that Pakfa has the same level of sensor integration as F-35? It's targetting pod is bolt-on!:biggrin2:

Su 57 has more variety and numbers of integrated sensors than the F35 and you think it needs an LDP for that?
F35 only offers a sensor advantage over US legacy fighters (including F22), while EF and Rafale showing that for a decade and even Russias latest Su 35 and Mig 35 have the full array of radar, IRST, RWR, MAWS and LWR installed. When it comes to sensors, the Su 57 is the benchmark for now (let's see what J20 ends up with).

 

[bhramos]

T-50 Sukhoi Su-57 Frazor new Video !!!

 

[Sancho]

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[bhramos]

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[Pulkit]

Is PAKFA still alive for us?
Hye Guys been away from forum for some time now.
Can anyone please update me incase any progress has been mode in the last few months?

I am asking only after reading last two to three pages of comments...

 

[bhramos]

Is PAKFA still alive for us?
Hye Guys been away from forum for some time now.
Can anyone please update me incase any progress has been mode in the last few months?

I am asking only after reading last two to three pages of comments...

PAK FA Military Acceptance completed, 1st Sqn ordered & to enter service in 2019....
different types new Hyper-sonic missiles are under testing for PAK FA....

 

[StealthFlanker]

Even F22 uses GPS guided SDB1 and JDAM, in day 1 strikes, which doesn't require laser guidance.
Laser guidance is only required in CAS, when internal carriage of weapons or pods is not necessary anymore.

Not quite true, given that there are many mobiles medium range SAM nowadays, and there are various long range missiles/guided bombs with SAL seeker like SPEAR 3, SDB, ability to guided them with laser will be very useful for SEAD and DEAD mission, LRF is also useful for air to air engagement with IRST.
With that being said, IRST of Su-57 does has laser designation capability, it only carry a pod for better FoV

while the proper IRST outclasses the IRST modes of a sniper pod

That pretty much nonsense
The capability of any IRST and FLIR has to do with the D*, aperture size and spectral response, which has nothing to do with whether they are FLIR or IRST.
IRST on SU-35 and Mig-35 aren't that impressive anyway.

Su 57 has more variety and numbers of integrated sensors than the F35 and you think it needs an LDP for that?
F35 only offers a sensor advantage over US legacy fighters (including F22), while EF and Rafale showing that for a decade and even Russias latest Su 35 and Mig 35 have the full array of radar, IRST, RWR, MAWS and LWR installed. When it comes to sensors, the Su 57 is the benchmark for now (let's see what J20 ends up with).

Su-57 has 2 sensors that F-35 doesn't, which is the L-band antenna on the leading edge slat for jamming and IFF system and the side looking array for SAR against ground targets.
For Optical and passive warning sensor, they are pretty much the same:
For IRST: Su-57 uses 101KS-V (OLS-50) while F-35 uses AN/AAQ-40 EOTS
For MWS: Su-57 uses 101KS-U while F-35 uses AN/AAQ-37 DAS
For navigation and landing: Su-57 uses 101KS-P and 101KS-N while F-35 uses AN/AAQ-37 DAS and CNI
For DIRCM: Su-57 uses 101KS-O while F-35 uses ThNDR
For RWR and ESM: Su-57 uses L402 Himalayas while F-35 uses AN/ASQ-239

The main difference between them, i would say is that Su-57 uses ultraviolet sensor for missiles warning receive while F-35 use imaging infrared sensor, compared to imaging infrared, ultraviolet sensors often have a lower false alarm rate and work better in adverse weather, on the other hand, ultraviolet sensor doesn't work well at high altitude (due to UV ray from the sun) and UV sensor also can't detect coasting missiles or aircraft

 

[Pulkit]

PAK FA Military Acceptance completed, 1st Sqn ordered & to enter service in 2019....
different types new Hyper-sonic missiles are under testing for PAK FA....

Are we gonna place an order?
Any news on that?

 

[bhramos]

Are we gonna place an order?
Any news on that?

not now after watching Russian Trails & Test, we will decide, currently deal is frozen...

 

[Sancho]

Not quite true, given that there are many mobiles medium range SAM nowadays, and there are various long range missiles/guided bombs with SAL seeker like SPEAR 3, SDB, ability to guided them with laser will be very useful for SEAD and DEAD mission

Wrong, because the laser guidance is used mainly in CAS from far lower distances, because the threat potential to the fighter is low. In SEAD, weapons like HARM, KH31, JSOW, SDB1/SPICE/AASM, or cruise missiles are used from greater ranges and none of them use laser guidance, if at all IR or EO seekers and data links for terminal guidance and corrections.
SPEAR 3 uses the seeker of the standard Brimstone, that's why it will have laser guidance too, not because it's relevant to SEAD.

That pretty much nonsense
The capability of any IRST and FLIR has to do with the D*, aperture size and spectral response, which has nothing to do with whether they are FLIR or IRST.

Lol right, so any targeting pod that has some A2A targeting capability, is equal to a fully fledged IRST like OLS, or Pirate? Why do you think the F35 is the only US fighter that uses Sniper pod technology for limited IRST capabilities, while F15, 16, 18 getting upgraded with a proper IRST system. Why is Thales advertising limited IRST capability via Damocles pod or MICA IR for Rafale F3R, until they have FSO-NG ready in the Rafale F4?

Su-57 has 2 sensors that F-35 doesn't

+ LWR and the rear facing radar, if that will remain a feature in the operational version.
Either way, Su 57 has superior radar and IRST detection capability to a far greater FoR, while F35 is mainly hoping on RWR and MAWS, which the Su 57 has too.

 

[Sancho]

Are we gonna place an order?
Any news on that?

No money for a joint development and MMRCAs, next to LCAs. The only hope seems to be an off the shelf order for Su 57, or wait till AMCA could become reality.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Wrong, because the laser guidance is used mainly in CAS from far lower distances, because the threat potential to the fighter is low. In SEAD, weapons like HARM, KH31, JSOW, SDB1/SPICE/AASM, or cruise missiles are used from greater ranges and none of them use laser guidance, if at all IR or EO seekers and data links for terminal guidance and corrections.
SPEAR 3 uses the seeker of the standard Brimstone, that's why it will have laser guidance too, not because it's relevant to SEAD.

That wrong,
SDB II has laser guided seeker
AASM has laser guided version
SPEAR 3 also has laser guided seeker.
Extremely long range cruise missiles like JSM or JASSM don't have laser guided but rely on IIR and datalink instead because the laser from launcher aircraft can't reach that distance anyway and they are supposed to be use for deep penetration.
KH-31 and HARM are a different class of SEAD weapon altogether since they are intended for fast reaction time.

Lol right, so any targeting pod that has some A2A targeting capability, is equal to a fully fledged IRST like OLS, or Pirate

Exactly, there is no magical reason giving an IRST superior detection range to targeting pod, the main advantage of internal IRST is a reduction in drag and RCS, that pretty much it. Another difference is that IRST often have automatic tracking mode, but you can add that to any pod if you wanted to. Nevermind that OLS detection range is quite inferior to many FLIR.

Why do you think the F35 is the only US fighter that uses Sniper pod technology for limited IRST capabilities,

There is nothing limited about F-35 IRST, it already has 2 different IRST system working in conjunction namely EOTS and DAS.
Normally FLIR by itself doesn't have automatic air to air scan mode, but that something EOTS already integrated so it is exactly the same as a normal IRST. A very common miscoception is that because EOTS is delivered from Sniper-XR, therefore, it is exactly the same as an internal Sniper-XR pod, that is wrong.
Look at the difference between EOTS and Sniper-XR ATP

while F15, 16, 18 getting upgraded with a proper IRST system.

Firstly, because their FLIR pod don't have automatic A2A tracking mode like F-35 does.
Secondly, IRST21 operate in 8-12 micron range while Sniper-XR operate in 3-5 microns range so a poded IRST system extend the spectrum that sensor of US 4 gen aircraft operate in

Why is Thales advertising limited IRST capability via Damocles pod or MICA IR for Rafale F3R, until they have FSO-NG ready in the Rafale F4?

Because Damocles pod doesn't have auto track while scan mode for air to air role like EOTS does. Damocles also create significant drag and RCS compared to an internal system.
IR sensor of MICA is far far far inferior to any dedicated FLIR or IRST in resolution and aperture so obviously it can't replace IRST

+ LWR and the rear facing radar, if that will remain a feature in the operational version.

That is utter nonsense, Su-57 doesn't have either laser warning receiver nor does it has a rear facing radar.

Either way, Su 57 has superior radar

Superior how?
N036 has 1552 T/R modules
APG-81 has 1626 T/R modules
As both operate in X-band, they should be roughly similar
Not that radar will make any difference if 2 stealth fighter go head to head anyway.

IRST detection capability to a far greater FoR

Exactly how does Su-57 has better Field of regard for IRST detection than F-35?
DAS already gave 360 degree field of regard

If you try to argue that as, because EOTS is under F-35 nose, it can't use EOTS to detect aircraft at higher altitude, then applying the same logic, Su-57 can't use OLS-50 to detect target at lower altitude. Beside, it is much more likely for F-35 to cruise with pitch up nose than it is for Su-57 to cruise with pitch down nose, since positive AoA will add lift at least

 

[Sancho]

Extremely long range cruise missiles like JSM or JASSM don't have laser guided but rely on IIR and datalink instead...
...KH-31 and HARM are a different class of SEAD weapon altogether since they are intended for fast reaction time.

So you admit that SEAD weapons doesn't use laser guidance, but fail to admit it and simoly deny it for the sake of denying facts. That says enough, no point in wasting more time.