S-400 performance in Syria = Paper Tiger

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
10,498
Likes
16,938
Country flag
Is it true that Russia reduce cost of India S-400 deal by 10,000 cr?.
 

nirranj

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
939
Likes
827
Country flag
No one said it was MoD, the link I posted said Russian ambassador said it. Anyway, distance of strikes from S-400.



Couldn't go over Lebanon so the only way to get there is through Russian AD.
I agree to your point. Russians though are saying that they have not activated their air defence systems. This makes me assume that Russians and Syrians cooperated with Trump, so that he can gain political mileage.
 

Mikesingh

Professional
Joined
Sep 7, 2015
Messages
7,353
Likes
30,450
Country flag
S-400 failed to detect the stealthy Scalp cruise missiles made by France even when they were flying right by and falling near S-400 batteries.
Did the S-400 fail to detect or were the missiles not fired on purpose? I wonder where the truth lies.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Did the S-400 fail to detect or were the missiles not fired on purpose? I wonder where the truth lies.
Based on the threats made by the Russian ambassador before and Putin's image as the strong man who always stands up to US aggression it makes him look weak on the international stage. That is certainly not the image he wants to project of Russia as the counter weight to US hegemony. Perhaps he was planning to shoot them down but his AD commander said the tracks were not good enough to guarantee kills and it would make S-400 look like even worse than the Patriot scandal of past years. Or he may not have seen them coming at all. He chose to make it look like he was backing down but I think he would have obliterated those missiles if he could. It would make his S-400 sell like hot cakes and makes him look strong which is the image he wants to project.
 

Mikesingh

Professional
Joined
Sep 7, 2015
Messages
7,353
Likes
30,450
Country flag
Based on the threats made by the Russian ambassador before and Putin's image as the strong man who always stands up to US aggression it makes him look weak on the international stage. That is certainly not the image he wants to project of Russia as the counter weight to US hegemony. Perhaps he was planning to shoot them down but his AD commander said the tracks were not good enough to guarantee kills and it would make S-400 look like even worse than the Patriot scandal of past years. Or he may not have seen them coming at all. He chose to make it look like he was backing down but I think he would have obliterated those missiles if he could. It would make his S-400 sell like hot cakes and makes him look strong which is the image he wants to project.

Russian MoD briefing to Media


Chief of the Main Operational Directorate of the Russian General Staff Colonel General Sergei Rudskoy holds briefing for mass media.

The US alongside its allies conducted a missile strike by its air and naval carriers targeting military and civil facilities of the Syrian Arab Republic on April 14 in the period from 3.42 am till 5.10 am (MSK).

The Russian air defence systems at the Khmeimim and Tartus air base timely located and controlled all naval and air launches made by the USA and the UK.
Announced French aircraft have not been registered by the Russian air defence systems.

It is reported that the B-1B, F-15 and F-16 aircraft of the USAF as well as the Tornado airplanes of the UK RAF over the Mediterranean Sea, and the USS Laboon and USS Monterey located in the Red Sea were used during the operation.

The B-1B strategic bombers approached the facilities over the Syrian territory near al-Tanf illegally seized by the USA. A number Syrian military airfields, industrial and research facilities suffered the missile-bomb strike.

As preliminary reported, there are no civilian casualties and losses among the Syrian Arab Army (SAA). Information will be further specified and made public. As evident by the available data, 103 cruise missiles have been launched, including Tomahawk naval-based missiles as well as GBU-38 guided air bombs fired from the B-1B; the F-15 and F-16 aircraft launched air-to-surface missiles.

The Tornado airplanes of the UK RAF launched eight Scalp EG missiles.

The Syrian air defence systems, which are primarily the USSR-made AD systems, have successfully countered the air and naval strikes.

In total, 71 cruise missiles have been intercepted. The S-125, S-200, Buk, Kvadrat, and Osa Syrian AD systems were involved in repelling the attack.


It proves high efficiency of the Syrian armament and professional skills of the Syrian servicemen trained by the Russian specialists.

Over the last eighteen months, Russia has completely recovered the Syrian air defence systems, and continues its development. It is to be stressed that several years ago given the strong request by our western partners, Russia opted out of supplying the S-300 AD systems to Syria. Taking into account the recent incident, Russia believes it possible to reconsider this issue not only regarding Syria but other countries as well.

The strike targeted Syrian air bases as well. Russia has registered the following data.
Four missiles targeted the Damascus International Airport; 12 missiles – the Al-Dumayr airdrome, all the missiles have been shot down. 8 missiles targeted the Blai airdrome, all the missiles shot down.

12 missiles targeted the Shayrat air base, all the missiles shot down. Air bases were not affected by the strike.

Five out of nine missiles were shot down targeting the unoccupied Mazzeh airdrome.
Thirteen out of sixteen missiles were shot down targeting the Homs airdrome. There are no heavy destructions.

In total 30 missiles targeted facilities near Barzah and Jaramana. Seven of them have been shot down. These facilities allegedly relating to the so-called “Damascus military chemical programme” were partially destructed. However, the objects have not been used for a long time, so there were no people and equipment there.

The Russian air defence systems have been alerted. Fighter jets are on combat air patrol now. There were no cruise missiles entering the Russian AD responsibility area. The Russian air defence systems were not applied.

Russia considers the strike to be a response to the success of the Syrian Armed Forces in fighting international terrorism and liberating its territory, rather than a response to the alleged chemical attack.

Besides, the attack took place on a day when the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) special mission was to start working on investigating incident in the city of Douma where chemical attack allegedly occurred.

It is to be stressed that there are no facilities on producing chemical weapons in Syria, and this has been documented by the OPCW.

The American aggression proves that the USA is not interested in objectivity of the ongoing investigation, seeks to wreck peaceful settlement in Syria and destabilize environment in the Middle East, and all these have nothing to do with declared objectives of countering international terrorism.

Currently the situation in Damascus and other settlements is assessed to be stable.The environment is being monitored.

End of briefing

Well, it seems the Russians haven't yet deployed the S-400 in Syria.
 

sorcerer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
26,920
Likes
98,472
Country flag
Shooting down a missile isn't provocative at all, it is self defence and Russia had every right to do it. Going after the launch platforms as they threatened would have been provocative. Russia should have shot down everything coming towards them, but they didn't, because they couldn't.
The target was an " alleged" chemical weapons and research factory. Even the Syrian Lead doesnt seem to care much about the attack and is downplaying the "incident".

This act should not be taken as a PROOF of a Russian Equipment failure but rather a calculated political move by Russia which will be paid somewhere else with a nice cup of tea or diplomatic nudging or an intel failure with political repercussions for USA. The game board is huge anyway.

What if Russians are not falling for the baits the USA is pushing towards it for exposing the elements of technicalities of S-400.
BTW, it was an alleged empty building that got destroyed.
What if the cost of interception is stupid...trying to protect empty buildings and "strategic locations " :D chosen by the CIA, who was very clear in the past with all the locations of WMDs in Iraq.

But its nice to see some western propaganda against the S-400. Well!!! there is no surprise on it.
:yawn:


Unless there is an evidence of S-400 actually in the war failing to meet its expected outcome, we cannot say its a failed equipment.
S-400 is branded as the very best by Russia for the international markets and Russians...them boys dont care about the Branding fanfare like some west or central.
If Russians are not firing up their S-400s for jujoobi reasons....USA and NATO should be worried when push comes to shove.
 

sorcerer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
26,920
Likes
98,472
Country flag
Is it true that Russia reduce cost of India S-400 deal by 10,000 cr?.
Russians have taken mucho money from India for various half fulfilled pledge on products and services.
The current NDA administration is negotiating hard and out with all guns with Russia on every deal..trying to get max out of failed commitments despite payments.

The primary reason why the signing of documents are taking time with Russia.

The point is.. Russia is not doing any sacrifice by reducing the cost...rather offsetting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kay

prohumanity

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
1,290
Likes
1,362
Country flag
Well.. the fact is that western countries were not selling any high tech weapons to India...now they are offering their outdated F16 junk at high price. Russia always was the one who offered India the best weapons India could get.

West was busy giving free or subsidized weapons such as F16s, Sabre jets, Patton tank to Pakistan to be used against India for decades. This is historical truth and anyone with an ounce of grey matter in their head know this.

Even as recent as 1999, during Kargil war, west withheld GPS and endangered Indian troops ...HOW INDIA CAN EVER TRUST THE UNTRUSTWORTHY HEGEMONISTS ? Indians are not fools. Are they ?
 

Mikesingh

Professional
Joined
Sep 7, 2015
Messages
7,353
Likes
30,450
Country flag
The target was an " alleged" chemical weapons and research factory. Even the Syrian Lead doesnt seem to care much about the attack and is downplaying the "incident".

This act should not be taken as a PROOF of a Russian Equipment failure but rather a calculated political move by Russia which will be paid somewhere else with a nice cup of tea or diplomatic nudging or an intel failure with political repercussions for USA. The game board is huge anyway.

What if Russians are not falling for the baits the USA is pushing towards it for exposing the elements of technicalities of S-400.
BTW, it was an alleged empty building that got destroyed.
What if the cost of interception is stupid...trying to protect empty buildings and "strategic locations " :D chosen by the CIA, who was very clear in the past with all the locations of WMDs in Iraq.

But its nice to see some western propaganda against the S-400. Well!!! there is no surprise on it.
:yawn:


Unless there is an evidence of S-400 actually in the war failing to meet its expected outcome, we cannot say its a failed equipment.
S-400 is branded as the very best by Russia for the international markets and Russians...them boys dont care about the Branding fanfare like some west or central.
If Russians are not firing up their S-400s for jujoobi reasons....USA and NATO should be worried when push comes to shove.
Well, reading the Russians MoD briefing it looks like they have either not deployed the S-400 in Syria or weren't used.

Check out the MoD briefing by Russia in my post #25 above. It seems they had used only the S-125, S-200, Buk, Kvadrat, and Osa Syrian AD systems.
 

Immanuel

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
3,541
Likes
7,446
Country flag
There are several videos of raw footage where missiles were clearly intercepted. S-400 was not used since Syrian AD managed to shoot down many missiles. This strike was prepared with Russia in the loop.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Last edited:

Immanuel

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
3,541
Likes
7,446
Country flag
The S-400 was switched off, it's obvious the strike was set-up that way with US and Russian understanding
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
The S-400 was switched off, it's obvious the strike was set-up that way with US and Russian understanding
If it was set up that way we wouldn't have come in with a force projection capable of fending off a retaliatory strike and the Astute could have reached it's firing position without worrying about Russians sinking it.
 

sjmaverick

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
66
Likes
78
Country flag
Well it could be the case where owing to some issue AD was not working to its full potential a possible breakdown or maintenance issue. It might also be an act of laziness on part of whomsoever was tasked to operate AD system or part of it, history has such instances ...i could remember when Israel did a surgical strike to take out Nuclear Plant (which was constructed of course with help of two faced France ) Operation Opera" or whatever was the name AD battery radar were switched off and not a single shot was aimed at F16 despite having credible AD defense....But it may be far from truth which is not known to anybody debating here.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Well it could be the case where owing to some issue AD was not working to its full potential a possible breakdown or maintenance issue. It might also be an act of laziness on part of whomsoever was tasked to operate AD system or part of it, history has such instances ...i could remember when Israel did a surgical strike to take out Nuclear Plant (which was constructed of course with help of two faced France ) Operation Opera" or whatever was the name AD battery radar were switched off and not a single shot was aimed at F16 despite having credible AD defense....But it may be far from truth which is not known to anybody debating here.
Operation Opera was against Iraq on a reactor that was purchased in 1976, before Saddam had come to power. The Russians were given forewarning of an attack so there is no way they were caught sleeping.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Now who would have thought that the French would do that. We all expect the French to surrender.
I guess you didn't hear that they took the white flag out of the RCIR when we got nukes.
 

sorcerer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
26,920
Likes
98,472
Country flag
Well, reading the Russians MoD briefing it looks like they have either not deployed the S-400 in Syria or weren't used.

Check out the MoD briefing by Russia in my post #25 above. It seems they had used only the S-125, S-200, Buk, Kvadrat, and Osa Syrian AD systems.

This is the news from Russian propaganda mouthpiece RT. on Published time: 23 Jan, 2018 12:20

Russian military deploys latest batch of S-400 air defense systems to Syria (VIDEOS)
https://www.rt.com/news/416738-s-400-syria-russia/


The reason why S-400 didnt fire up is simple COST analysis on what is attacked by USA and what is to be protected by S-400..
 

nirranj

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
939
Likes
827
Country flag
From a historical point of view, we Indians have always lost a war when supported by the French. The first war that we won with lasting consequences after Delhi was taken by the Arabs was the 1971 Bangladesh liberation war and then we were supported by the Russians.

I'm a bit sentimental though :scared2::scared2::scared2:
 

scatterStorm

Senior Member
Joined
May 28, 2016
Messages
2,242
Likes
5,335
Country flag
Ahmm Ahmm, from the mouth of the dude who was there to shoot down the limp Tomahawks.


Ahmm AHmm, from the mouth of a Russian MoD:


Funny thing is it was done by much less sophisticated S200 systems.
:hehe:
 

Global Defence

Articles

Top