Missile test NOTAMs

[Immanuel]

Need to wait a few days before declaring fake... If true... it is usually corroborated from other outlets.. The above news is from Indian express

Anyone claiming unnamed 'reliable sources' are mostly making shit up

 

[Bhadra]

BrahMos fails fresh trial ​

Published June 5, 2019 | By admin SOURCE: ENS
http://idrw.org/brahmos-fails-fresh-trial/#more-202879 .

Supersonic cruise missile BrahMos reportedly failed to provide desired results during an experimental launch from a defence base off Odisha coast on Tuesday. The ‘failure’ came after a series of successful developmental and user trials of the missile from all three platforms – land, ship and aircraft.

A joint venture of India and Russia, the land version of the missile was test-fired from an inclined launcher at the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur-on-sea during noon. “The missile did not cover the intended distance. It deviated from the trajectory and plunged into the sea after covering a distance of less than 10 km,” reliable sources told ‘The Express’.

The mission aimed at evaluating some of the newer subsystems manufactured by Indian industries as part of production stabilisation. However, the cause of failure was not immediately known. Defence authorities, however, claimed that the mission was successful. It was an experimental trial of the BrahMos land version and several parameters were validated, said an official on condition of anonymity. He denied to divulge details.

 

[Chinmoy]

Well that is the general method of testing long range missile in short range test area.

But your point about cruise missile is valid.
So now is the question what was the trajectory that they tested?

Also tested bramhos Extended range doesn't mean always testing for full range it is still essentially the same missile. So it will be tested for different targets from 200km to 600km.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

When talking of testing extended range of a cruise missile, you are essentially talking of testing a plane for extended range.
Now doing a captive trial for extended range is what you would not want in the first place. A loop trial is fine, but that too would not mean a proper validation trial for range.
Now going by NOTAM and NAVREA, it was not tested for an extended range in first place. Also the reports indicates that it is more about testing subsystems rather then range. So the test was a regular missile picked from assembly line rather then a newly developed ER one.

@Immanuel As per popular believe, it is not an easy job to upgrade the already deployed systems. The cannisterisation of the missile prevents it from being FUP. A whole team of engineers would be required at site to carry out even a minor EEPROM replacement activity. The logical way ahead is to go for upgraded missile replacement gradually in norms of mid life upgrade. New system would replace the old ones in the field and old system would be brought back to assembly line for upgrades.

But first, a couple of validation trials would be needed for range extension.

 

[Immanuel]

When talking of testing extended range of a cruise missile, you are essentially talking of testing a plane for extended range.
Now doing a captive trial for extended range is what you would not want in the first place. A loop trial is fine, but that too would not mean a proper validation trial for range.
Now going by NOTAM and NAVREA, it was not tested for an extended range in first place. Also the reports indicates that it is more about testing subsystems rather then range. So the test was a regular missile picked from assembly line rather then a newly developed ER one.

@Immanuel As per popular believe, it is not an easy job to upgrade the already deployed systems. The cannisterisation of the missile prevents it from being FUP. A whole team of engineers would be required at site to carry out even a minor EEPROM replacement activity. The logical way ahead is to go for upgraded missile replacement gradually in norms of mid life upgrade. New system would replace the old ones in the field and old system would be brought back to assembly line for upgrades.

But first, a couple of validation trials would be needed for range extension.

Yes missile upgrades are not easy but oldest Brahmos missiles in IN & IA inventory are already older than 10-12 years. Some of them have already undergone Service Life extension tests. Missiles coming of age are now being upgraded to remove the range limitations. I didn't mean they would do these upgrades on operationally deployed units. Range extension has already been tested and all new missiles delivered since around mid 2018 have no software locks.

http://www.bharatdefencekavach.com/...to-validate-service-life-extension/65256.html

 

[Chinmoy]

Yes missile upgrades are not easy but oldest Brahmos missiles in IN & IA inventory are already older than 10-12 years. Some of them have already undergone Service Life extension tests. Missiles coming of age are now being upgraded to remove the range limitations. I didn't mean they would do these upgrades on operationally deployed units. Range extension has already been tested and all new missiles delivered since around mid 2018 have no software locks.

http://www.bharatdefencekavach.com/...to-validate-service-life-extension/65256.html

The only problem is, range extension test has just been carried out once.

 

[kurup]

............................................................................

 

[Chinmoy]

............................................................................

Location is Abdul Kalam Island. So most probably a Ballistic Missile test.

But which one?

Interestingly the splash area width is huge which indicates a new system test. We have yet to test Pralay with 500 km range.

 

[Immanuel]

The only problem is, range extension test has just been carried out once.

https://www.thenewsminute.com/artic...test-fires-brahmos-missile-450-km-range-58474

Range extension tests began in 2017 and several tests have happened since with ranges of over 400km. Often, they don't declare the range to which it has been tested.

 

[Chinmoy]

https://www.thenewsminute.com/artic...test-fires-brahmos-missile-450-km-range-58474

Range extension tests began in 2017 and several tests have happened since with ranges of over 400km. Often, they don't declare the range to which it has been tested.

This is the only test I was talking about. Now problem with the theory that range is not declared after tests is, they would have to declare NOTAm and NAVREA anyhow. These NOTAM and NAVREA is publicly accessible and could be deduced.
Another thing is, if India could declare the test of 2017, what is the issue in declaring other tests? Its not like anyone is going to put sanctions on us. Even the last test, which a part of media is declaring as Failed, has been announced. Then why so much hush hush on extended range test?

 

[debspark90]

HSDTV test fired....!!

 

[debspark90]

This came out of syllabus..

 

[captscooby81]

Prithvi 2 Successfully test fired today

 

[ezsasa]

NEW NOTAMS - PAKISTAN Multiple NOTAMS issued by Pakistan show lots of military testing and temporary space restrictions for military use.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

NOTAM for revised launch schedule of GSLV MarkIII - M1/Chandrayaan-2
(July 17-31, 2019)

A1550/19 NOTAMN
Q) VOMF/QWMLW/IV/BO/W/000/999/
A) VOMF B) 1907172100 C) 1907311000
D) BTN 2100-2200 ON 17 JUL AND BTN 0830-1000 ON 18-31 JUL
E) GSLV- MKIII- M1 CHANDRAYAAN-2 ROCKET LAUNCH FM SHAR RANGE,
SHRIHARIKOTA WILL TAKE PLACE AS PER FLW DETAILS. THE LAUNCH WILL BE
ON ANY ONE OF THE DAY DRG THIS PERIOD.ACTUAL DATE OF LAUNCH WILL BE
INTIMATED 24 HR IN ADVANCE THROUGH A SEPARATE NOTAM.
LAUNCH PAD COORDINATES : 134312.00N 0801348.00E
NO FLT IS PERMITTED OVER THE DNG ZONES

DANGER ZONE -1: IS A CIRCLE OF 10 NAUTICAL MILES AROUND THE LAUNCH
PAD.

DANGER ZONE -2:
I. 1230N 08240
II. 1315N 08250
III. 1245N 08410
IV. 1200N 08400

DANGER ZONE -3
I. 1135N 08500
II. 1225N 08510
III. 1145N 08715
IV. 1055N 08705

DANGER ZONE 4
I. 0810N 09420
II. 0900N 09440E
III. 0825N 09615
IV. 0735N 09555

ROUTES AFFECTED IN CHENNAI FIR :
W20, Q11,V4,V9,Q23,Q24,L510,L645,N571,P761,A465

 

[Immanuel]

This is the only test I was talking about. Now problem with the theory that range is not declared after tests is, they would have to declare NOTAm and NAVREA anyhow. These NOTAM and NAVREA is publicly accessible and could be deduced.
Another thing is, if India could declare the test of 2017, what is the issue in declaring other tests? Its not like anyone is going to put sanctions on us. Even the last test, which a part of media is declaring as Failed, has been announced. Then why so much hush hush on extended range test?

Hush hush because there are often sneaky Chinese chips around gathering telemetry data from areas close to Myanmar. Hush hush tests such as many K-4 and K-15 tests in the past have been done when enemy recon in the area is less or is being deceived.

 

[Chinmoy]

Hush hush because there are often sneaky Chinese chips around gathering telemetry data from areas close to Myanmar. Hush hush tests such as many K-4 and K-15 tests in the past have been done when enemy recon in the area is less or is being deceived.

Question is, when we have tested it once and declared it, what is the logic of not declaring other tests? Its not like Chinese are dependent on our NOTAM and NAVREA warnings to sneak on our capabilities.
Having a secret project is another idea. We have kept the K series under wrap and done secret testing. But it is out in open that we would be and is increasing the range of BRAHMOS. Its not a secret like K series. Then where is the logic of not demonstrating the capability and still declare in open media that it would be ready by year end or next year or to give any timeline?

 

[Immanuel]

Question is, when we have tested it once and declared it, what is the logic of not declaring other tests? Its not like Chinese are dependent on our NOTAM and NAVREA warnings to sneak on our capabilities.
Having a secret project is another idea. We have kept the K series under wrap and done secret testing. But it is out in open that we would be and is increasing the range of BRAHMOS. Its not a secret like K series. Then where is the logic of not demonstrating the capability and still declare in open media that it would be ready by year end or next year or to give any timeline?

Yes, but newer versions of Brahmos have additional improvements on top of the range extension including RCS reduction through new coatings, speed has also been increased by the way which is now over mach 3.0.

 

[Chinmoy]

Yes, but newer versions of Brahmos have additional improvements on top of the range extension including RCS reduction through new coatings, speed has also been increased by the way which is now over mach 3.0.

RCS reduction is been implemented in current 300Km series too and had been in testing for quiet sometime. It is not exclusive to the 500 km range missile.

So question again arise. Why to keep the extended range test under wrap?

 

[Immanuel]

RCS reduction is been implemented in current 300Km series too and had been in testing for quiet sometime. It is not exclusive to the 500 km range missile.

So question again arise. Why to keep the extended range test under wrap?

Not entirely sure, perhaps it is to conceal those steep dive and other terminal maneuvers. Brahmos, K-15 and K-4 have maneuvering abilities unseen so far in supersonic cruise or hypersonic hybrid missiles.

Could also be some active anti spoofing and EW counter measures are also being tested?

 

[Chinmoy]

Not entirely sure, perhaps it is to conceal those steep dive and other terminal maneuvers. Brahmos, K-15 and K-4 have maneuvering abilities unseen so far in supersonic cruise or hypersonic hybrid missiles.

Could also be some active anti spoofing and EW counter measures are also being tested?

Don't compare K project with BRAHMOS.

The whole K project along with ATV was and is black project. Whereas BRHAMOS is a JV. We are publishing pictures and video of the hit accuracy. We are openly publishing the steep dive capability and its test in open media.

So what is so secret about the extended range test? Why we have only declared a single test so far if we have carried out others too?