MiG 21s to be phased out from 2014

[LETHALFORCE]

Please show me where MKIs are being produced 24-36 a year. Last I checked it was 14.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/su-30.htm

Russian license with full technology transfer rights, enough for roughly 8 squadrons, each of 16 combat aircraft and 2 trainers. While a total of 230 aircraft are expected to be in service by the year 2020, HAL would have to increase the annual production rate from 12 aircraft per year to 24 per year, and there is no indication that this ramp up has in fact happened.


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/world-will-see-capable-iaf-in-710-yrs/369235/0

"We would like to increase the number of Sukhois produced to 23 aircraft a year. Hence, we have asked for speeding up the production," he said.

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...-prototypes-take-shape-at-sukhoi-factory.html

Once certification and operational tests are completed, KnAAPO will complete 30 production SSJs in 2009. From 2010-11 output will swing into full gear and increase to 60-70 airframes annually.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/07/09/329424/india-to-have-230-sukhoi-su-30s-by-2015.html
officials have been open to the possibility of opening an additional Su-30MKI production line if there is a commitment from the air force.


The numbers maybe optimistic but I calculated India aiming for 2 planes a month and Russia producing 1 plane a month together it would be 3 a month or 36 a year still no evidence that this has been achieved but it should be soon

 

[Rebelkid]

India is buying 40 more Su-30Mki's form Russia from what i heard...so thats 270 Su-30

 

[Armand2REP]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/su-30.htm

Russian license with full technology transfer rights, enough for roughly 8 squadrons, each of 16 combat aircraft and 2 trainers. While a total of 230 aircraft are expected to be in service by the year 2020, HAL would have to increase the annual production rate from 12 aircraft per year to 24 per year, and there is no indication that this ramp up has in fact happened.


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/world-will-see-capable-iaf-in-710-yrs/369235/0

That describes well what India would have to do. They haven't done it.

"We would like to increase the number of Sukhois produced to 23 aircraft a year. Hence, we have asked for speeding up the production," he said.

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...-prototypes-take-shape-at-sukhoi-factory.html

Uhhh, that is talking about the Sukhoi Super Jet.

Once certification and operational tests are completed, KnAAPO will complete 30 production SSJs in 2009. From 2010-11 output will swing into full gear and increase to 60-70 airframes annually.

Uhhh, again that is talking about the Super Jet. You do know the difference between a regional airliner and an Su-30MKI??

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/07/09/329424/india-to-have-230-sukhoi-su-30s-by-2015.html

officials have been open to the possibility of opening an additional Su-30MKI production line if there is a commitment from the air force.

Haven't seen any commitment yet.

The numbers maybe optimistic but I calculated India aiming for 2 planes a month and Russia producing 1 plane a month together it would be 3 a month or 36 a year still no evidence that this has been achieved but it should be soon

Yeah, no commitments means it is just pipe dreams. The reason India started a production line is so they can builld their own. Opening a second production line is preferable than buying them from Russia and I doubt they would do both. Don't forget Russia has to build all the radars for all of these Flankers plus all the ones they are exporting. If you ramp up production to 24-36 a year you are likely to swamp NIIP. Russians haven't been exactly great and ramping up production for their own VVS, I doubt they can keep up with India. That is really the reason why Russia was gungho about shipping production to HAL, it opened their lines for further exports. If you push more work on them they will implode.

 

[bengalraider]

The MiG 21 has served this nation long and helped our air warriors through numerous battles , i thank it for it's service and wish it an uneventful retirement serving as showpieces in museums and parks all around India(we can surely find 121 parks wanting migs in India).

 

[Armand2REP]

The MiG 21 has served this nation long and helped our air warriors through numerous battles , i thank it for it's service and wish it an uneventful retirement serving as showpieces in museums and parks all around India(we can surely find 121 parks wanting migs in India).

The MiG-21 is the national disgrace of India. After killing over a hundred brave pilots and losing 43% of the total fleet from non-combat related crashes, it is better to scrap those pieces of junk and forget about them. Not venerate them on a plaza.

 

[bengalraider]

The MiG-21 is the national disgrace of India. After killing over a hundred brave pilots and losing 43% of the total fleet from non-combat related crashes, it is better to scrap those pieces of junk and forget about them. Not venerate them on a plaza.

The only reason these planes crashed was because we used them for too long, i.e the plane is not to blame the politicos and other decision makers who did not replace it soon enough are! the MIG 21 has served the IAF with distinction throughout the seventies and eighties. as per IAF records the MiG-21 FL gave us no less than 12 air to air and four air to ground kills during the 1971 war.the plane deserves to be absolved of the bad name given to it.

 

[Armand2REP]

The only reason these planes crashed was because we used them for too long, i.e the plane is not to blame the politicos and other decision makers who did not replace it soon enough are! the MIG 21 has served the IAF with distinction throughout the seventies and eighties. as per IAF records the MiG-21 FL gave us no less than 12 air to air and four air to ground kills during the 1971 war.the plane deserves to be absolved of the bad name given to it.

Gave you 12 A2A kills, compared to killing several hundred of itself and over a hundred pilots. Its combat record doesn't redeem its poor service record.

 

[bengalraider]

Gave you 12 A2A kills, compared to killing several hundred of itself and over a hundred pilots. Its combat record doesn't redeem its poor service record.

I reiterate what i said earlier the MiG 21 crashes were due to bureaucratic errors in planning for their timely retirement the plane itself can hardly be blamed for any wrongdoing.It's poor service record should be attributed to the lack of proper jet trainer aircraft in the IAF and the lack of proper and verifiable spares following the dissolution of the soviet union.

 

[Armand2REP]

I reiterate what i said earlier the MiG 21 crashes were due to bureaucratic errors in planning for their timely retirement the plane itself can hardly be blamed for any wrongdoing.It's poor service record should be attributed to the lack of proper jet trainer aircraft in the IAF and the lack of proper and verifiable spares following the dissolution of the soviet union.

So why reminisce about IAF's past incompetence? Best left forgotten.

 

[Yusuf]

The MiG 21 when it entered service was in a class of its own. Even the west accepts as much.
As BR said, the bad service record is becuase of how long it was dragged in the air force. Interesting thing to compare would be how many crashed during the first 20 years of service and how many in the latter 20.
India also did not do itself any favors by delaying the purchase of advanced jet trainers which forced rookie pilots to train on these fighters which also added to its crash records as it was a tough plane to fly.

All in all, the MiG 21 was and still is a good fighter which provd itself even in cope india. But it has long overlived its intended service life. But it should go down as a good war machine rather than a flying coffin.

 

[neo29]

finally they retiring it. already they overused it by 10 15 years. our pilots can finally be safe in the skies.

 

[Yusuf]

Its not going tomorrow mate. Will be over the next few years. Till then hope no more crashes.

 

[ppgj]

So why reminisce about IAF's past incompetence? Best left forgotten.

Gave you 12 A2A kills, compared to killing several hundred of itself and over a hundred pilots. Its combat record doesn't redeem its poor service record.

The MiG-21 is the national disgrace of India. After killing over a hundred brave pilots and losing 43% of the total fleet from non-combat related crashes, it is better to scrap those pieces of junk and forget about them. Not venerate them on a plaza.

mig 21's have served india well. there is no doubt about that in spite of the bad publicity it has got in the light of the unfortunate events which have happened in the past decade or so.

the problem is not the machine itself rather how they were put to use.

1. they were stretched beyond their life. this has to do with india's precarious financial position in late 80's and early 90's.

2. they were being used to train rookie pilots!!! now, even for an expert pilot, MIG-21's are very unforgivable. they are tough to operate particularly at landing speeds. think how a trainee will handle it.

3. they should have retired gracefully in 80's but india's MOD and its bureaucracy and financial position in those times did not allow that.

no use blaming the craft. it has done its job. it can't serve forever!!

 

[nandu]

India confirms plans to retire oldest MiG-21s

India's government is to phase out its oldest MiG-series aircraft, following a spate of crashes.

"A total of 21 MiG aircraft have crashed during the last three years," defence minister AK Antony told India's parliament. The accidents resulted in four deaths.

The oldest type in the air force inventory is the MiG-21 and these are being phased out, Antony says. The service has about 200 MiG-21s, most of which were made under licence by India's Hindustan Aeronautics.

An upgrade programme was performed on 121 of the aircraft several years ago, adding equipment including a Phazotron Kopyo radar. Unmodified examples will be phased out within the next three years, say Indian sources, with the improved MiG-21 Bisons likely to remain in use until 2017.

The phase-out of the oldest MiG-21s comes as the air force continues to add new Sukhoi Su-30MKIs and upgrade its MiG-29s.

The service also has a competition under way to procure 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft, and the indigenous Aeronautical Development Agency Tejas light combat aircraft is expected to be inducted into use from late this year.

India is also talking to Russia about jointly developing a fifth-generation fighter based on the Sukhoi PAK FA demonstrator.

"In the years to come, aerospace power will prove to be the decisive factor in shaping the outcome of conflicts," Antony says.

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...-confirms-plans-to-retire-oldest-mig-21s.html

 

[Yatharth Singh]

Cockpit of the MIG-21

Cockpit of Su-30 MKI

No matter whether the replacements are available or not, The fleet of the Mig-21 has to be decomitioned at all cost. We cant let our superior pilots die constantly like this because of the too old avionics of this Mig-21. Imagine how can a pilot, who is trained to fly the latest jets(of generation 4 and 4.5)that are operated by computers, can fly the a jet of 2nd generation made in 1959 . And even he is able to fly that jet, do you really think he can manage a dogfight involving the F-16s and JF-17 Thunders. NO WAY AT ALL.

If someone is saying that there is no replacement for the Migs then I would say that if once the MIG 21 are decomitioned then I can bet you that the completion of its replacement will not take more than 3 years and this MRCA will be accomplished as soon as possible.
Wake up guys. Right now if not all then atleast 50 to 60 out of the 121 MIG-21 can be retired because the replacement of LCA and Su-30 MKI is not far behind.

 

[anoop_mig25]

India should gift these to India friendly countries who share common interests with us.

can u tell me which indian friendly countries are going to buy these good old plane whose even spare parts are not avaliable

 

[vijaytripoli]

Cockpit of the MIG-21

Is it me alone or somebody else also can,t see the joystick????
And what about the cockpit of mig21-bison? Hope to see some LCD,s installed on it to do some unload of Pilot work. And just got the latest reports that in last 4 years , 28 pilots died because of crashes!

Cockpit of Su-30 MKI

This is the cockpit of eurofighter typhoon Tranche-2 not su-30mki !
.

28 pilots, 61 aircrafts lost in four years
IANS Posted on Apr 28, 2010 at 15:42



New Delhi: The Indian Air Force lost 28 pilots in 61 aircraft and helicopter accidents in the last four years, parliament was informed on Wednesday.


"Sixty-one defence aircraft/helicopters have crashed during the last four years. Twenty-eight pilots have died in these crashes," Defence Minister A K Antony said in a written reply the in Rajya Sabha.


"Defence services have aircraft of varied vintage on their inventory. Thorough checks and proper maintenance is carried out on each aircraft by a qualified team of engineers and technicians. No aircraft is offered for flying unless it has passed all checks and is fully fit for flying," he added.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/28-pilots-61-aircrafts-lost-in-four-years/114134-3.html?from=tn
Chau

 

[Yusuf]

Yathart, the MiGs in indian hands gave the F-16 of the US a hard time. Lets the Pak ones or the JF 17s aside.

Yes they have to be replaced no doubt but then just dont get over excited.

 

[Yatharth Singh]

28 pilots, 61 aircrafts lost in four years
IANS Posted on Apr 28, 2010 at 15:42



New Delhi: The Indian Air Force lost 28 pilots in 61 aircraft and helicopter accidents in the last four years, parliament was informed on Wednesday.


"Sixty-one defence aircraft/helicopters have crashed during the last four years. Twenty-eight pilots have died in these crashes," Defence Minister A K Antony said in a written reply the in Rajya Sabha.


"Defence services have aircraft of varied vintage on their inventory. Thorough checks and proper maintenance is carried out on each aircraft by a qualified team of engineers and technicians. No aircraft is offered for flying unless it has passed all checks and is fully fit for flying," he added.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/28-pilots-61-aircrafts-lost-in-four-years/114134-3.html?from=tn
Chau

Yes you were right. That pic is not of su-30 mki, but is of eurofighter typhoon. Here you have an image of the Mig-21 Bison`s cockpit.

But I dont think that fitting an old cockpit with 1-2 LCD`s or with some better radars will do the job because now where on one side air forces of big countries are acquiring jets with helmet mounted cueing system, beyond visual range air to air missiles,fly-by-wire technologies. All the jets of its time to which mig-21 was compared such as American F-104 Starfighter, F-5 Freedom Fighter, French Dassault Mirage III are retired years ago. Even its bison upgrade is not a such achievement on which pilots could rely on. May be mig-21 has a glourious history but you cant fly P-51 in todays world no matter if it has served as one of the best jets of its time.

 

[Daredevil]

LCA and MRCA will be filling the gaps left my Mig-21 retirement which was long overdue. Till then we have to put up with them as reserves in the event of sudden war or skirmish.