Inside the palace Yanukovych didn't want Ukraine to see

Hari Sud

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You posted in a thread about a UK article and made comments about ubiquitous US "propaganda." Don't be evasive. And quote me properly instead of just inserting "W. G. Ewald." I understand your reluctance, however :)
Can you point me to where I posted about an UK article in my post. While you are at it point me where I am evasive.

Now I am quoting you properly.
 

asianobserve

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Ok, India is Russia's lapdog & etc.

Makes as much sense.
Indeed. There's a penchant among Indians to liberally dispense with the word "lapdog" to those supporting American positions unmindful of the fact that India is almost always acting like Russia's lapdog. This is a classic case of 4 fingers pointing back at you.
 

ubuntu

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95.7% of Crimeans in referendum voted to join Russia - preliminary resultsts.
 

Ray

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No self respecting country is anyone's lapdog.

No self respecting country can be bound in vassalage.

Each country should act independently to suit its national and strategic interest.

Even Canada which is a very close ally of the US, cannot be called US' ''lapdog'' as it disagrees at times with the US, and follows its own national interests.

Canada has disagreed with American policies regarding the Vietnam War, the status of Cuba, the Iraq War, Missile Defence, and the War on Terrorism. A serious diplomatic debate is whether the Northwest Passage is in international waters or under Canadian jurisdiction.

Has it made Canada any less an ally of the US?

Blair was dubbed as the poodle of the US and he got the UK involved in the Iraq War as an ally of the US.

But the British public opposed it with the Million March!


One million march against war

Britain's largest ever demonstration saw hundreds of thousands Britons from all walks of life intent on delivering a stark message to Tony Blair.

Britain witnessed its largest demonstration yesterday when an estimated one million protesters took to the streets of London to oppose the looming war against Iraq.

The centre of the capital was paralysed by noisy but peaceful people from many political backgrounds. Former members of the Armed Forces, clergymen and young children all joined the march to Hyde Park.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1422228/One-million-march-against-war.html
Therefore, even if Govt supports a stand, it does not mean the people do!
 
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ubuntu

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Ok, India is Russia's lapdog & etc.

Makes as much sense.

(And pmailtra is Russian agent by same reasoning.

Q.E.D.

I say again, Indians' worship of Putin now or at any time is not an indicator of anything good for India.
after devyani episode you want us to be your lapdog or laptop?:wave:
 

Ray

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Ok, India is Russia's lapdog & etc.

Makes as much sense.

(And pmailtra is Russian agent by same reasoning.

Q.E.D.

I say again, Indians' worship of Putin now or at any time is not an indicator of anything good for India.
Pmaitra holds socialist views as many Indians do.

It does not mean he is a Communist or even a socialist.

It is just a mindset bequeathed to us from ancient India and is part of our subconscious psyche.

There is good reasons for that and the rationale cannot be understood by the developed Western world.

When a country is struggling to modernise and rise out of 'poverty', and other economic and social ills caused by years of slavery (as practically non citizens and not masters of their destiny under colonialism), then when these ills are seen in relative terms to the developed West, there is a yearning for social justice across the social and economic spectrum of the population of the ex colonial country.

That is why the Western countries mistake this yearning for a fair and level playing field as a indications of a communist or socialist mindset.

However, the chickens are coming home to roost as far as even the Western countries are concerned. Now, that the US has gone through a bad phase as far as its economy is concerned and people have become jobless and debt ridden, the issue of socialist ideas erupting has shown up, like the Obamanomics. Notwithstanding, it does not make the US a socialist or a Communist country.

Then there is the cultural mindset of India.

India has been a grassroot sensitive country from ancient times. Dharma, the ancient application of the Panchyati Raj etc indicates the values held paramount in rationality in judging issues and the equality of man.


Justice is not merely right determination and adjudication of disputes and enforcement of Law, but is so comprehensive in its meaning and import that it takes with in its ambit the whole of political, social, juristic and moral idealism.

To the ancient Indian mind. the concept of Dharma implied the concept of justice to cope with all the exigencies of life. Dharma was not merely the code of human conduct and regulation of life in detail, it was the Reality itself as the counterpart of Brahman which was its metaphysical expression.

Why is Russia, though I hardly think it can be Putin, is still having a soft corner amongst Indians, even though being pro American opens up avenue for a better prospects as a country, and hence the individual?

It is because of a sense of self respect that the western nations, unlike Russia or should I say the USSR, crushed underfoot in respect to all ex colonial countries.

West did help and it is not that they did not. But there were strings attached. Again, a blow to the self respect, but complaining would only be indication of ungratefulness. Yet, subterranean resentment was obvious.

Then there was this 'US or Them' insistence of the US and it was not Bush who invented the idea. It was always there form John Foster Dulles' time when he was the Secretary of State and he put off Nehru even though Nehru was a pro West man! Now, which nation, that has just emerged from the shackles of colonialism and subjugation, accept to be under subjugation again, even if in a more benign sense?

On the other hand, the USSR had not demand of 'Us or Them' and helped India, which was cash strapped and struggling to pay for goods with bananas! And India's industrial and hydro power structure etc did make a good foundation that is holding us in good stead even now.

And then the West superciliously and unintelligently crow about India's fault and highlight those, as if to gloat and hide their own insecurities.

Then they justify everything as if they alone are 'the international community', as if the US and the West alone is world and the others are mere specks whose opinion and views does not matter.

Now, does not endear anyone to the others?

Therefore, the soft corner for Russia is naturally not that uncommon for they did not demean, rubbish values and culture or strike at the self respect of the colonial countries trying to find their place under the sun.

Yet, at the same time, one can ask why lean towards the US now?

Reasons are obvious. Apart from the strategic reasons, there is no doubt that the modern Indian is restless for a better life and economic prosperity. The West is a bigger market and western goods are of quality. communism has collapsed and Russia is a pale self of before. Not toothless, but no longer strident. Further, Russia is now a has been and so to protect India's interests, a friendly West is absolutely essential. I presume this would be the rationale for all countries who were under the USSR's umbra and penumbra.

So, even though the West is the flavour of the moment, the ancient hark inborn in the Indian mind, for social justice cannot be ruled out.

it is not only in India such a mindset dwells, but also those who are now foreign citizens. I have spoken to many Indians who are now Americans and of all religious denominations and they still have this mindset of having social justice paramount on their mind.

You must read the book, a 1958 political novel by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer titled 'Ugly American', to realise where the US is going wrong. The book has been written a long time ago, but the reasons are still valid.

The Communist philosophy is an anathema to me, but I will say this, that sometimes the US Govt's arrogant stand that they alone are purer than driven snow saddens me.

The US Govt must realise the Indian saying - hamam men sab naga hai

It means that all in the hot steam bathhouse are nude - i.e. exposed and same!
 
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TrueSpirit1

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Pmaitra holds socialist views as many Indians do.

It does not mean he is a Communist or even a socialist.

It is just a mindset bequeathed to us from ancient India and is part of our subconscious psyche.

There is good reasons for that and the rationale cannot be understood by the developed Western world.

When a country is struggling to modernise and rise out of 'poverty', and other economic and social ills caused by years of slavery (as practically non citizens and not masters of their destiny under colonialism), then when these ills are seen in relative terms to the developed West, there is a yearning for social justice across the social and economic spectrum of the population of the ex colonial country.

That is why the Western countries mistake this yearning for a fair and level playing field as a indications of a communist or socialist mindset.

However, the chickens are coming home to roost as far as even the Western countries are concerned. Now, that the US has gone through a bad phase as far as its economy is concerned and people have become jobless and debt ridden, the issue of socialist ideas erupting has shown up, like the Obamanomics. Notwithstanding, it does not make the US a socialist or a Communist country.

Then there is the cultural mindset of India.

India has been a grassroot sensitive country from ancient times. Dharma, the ancient application of the Panchyati Raj etc indicates the values held paramount in rationality in judging issues and the equality of man.


Justice is not merely right determination and adjudication of disputes and enforcement of Law, but is so comprehensive in its meaning and import that it takes with in its ambit the whole of political, social, juristic and moral idealism.

To the ancient Indian mind. the concept of Dharma implied the concept of justice to cope with all the exigencies of life. Dharma was not merely the code of human conduct and regulation of life in detail, it was the Reality itself as the counterpart of Brahman which was its metaphysical expression.

Why is Russia, though I hardly think it can be Putin, is still having a soft corner amongst Indians, even though being pro American opens up avenue for a better prospects as a country, and hence the individual?

It is because of a sense of self respect that the western nations, unlike Russia or should I say the USSR, crushed underfoot in respect to all ex colonial countries.

West did help and it is not that they did not. But there were strings attached. Again, a blow to the self respect, but complaining would only be indication of ungratefulness. Yet, subterranean resentment was obvious.

Then there was this 'US or Them' insistence of the US and it was not Bush who invented the idea. It was always there form John Foster Dulles' time when he was the Secretary of State and he put off Nehru even though Nehru was a pro West man! Now, which nation, that has just emerged from the shackles of colonialism and subjugation, accept to be under subjugation again, even if in a more benign sense?

On the other hand, the USSR had not demand of 'Us or Them' and helped India, which was cash strapped and struggling to pay for goods with bananas! And India's industrial and hydro power structure etc did make a good foundation that is holding us in good stead even now.

And then the West superciliously and unintelligently crow about India's fault and highlight those, as if to gloat and hide their own insecurities.

Then they justify everything as if they alone are 'the international community', as if the US and the West alone is world and the others are mere specks whose opinion and views does not matter.

Now, does not endear anyone to the others?

Therefore, the soft corner for Russia is naturally not that uncommon for they did not demean, rubbish values and culture or strike at the self respect of the colonial countries trying to find their place under the sun.

Yet, at the same time, one can ask why lean towards the US now?

Reasons are obvious. Apart from the strategic reasons, there is no doubt that the modern Indian is restless for a better life and economic prosperity. The West is a bigger market and western goods are of quality. communism has collapsed and Russia is a pale self of before. Not toothless, but no longer strident. Further, Russia is now a has been and so to protect India's interests, a friendly West is absolutely essential. I presume this would be the rationale for all countries who were under the USSR's umbra and penumbra.

So, even though the West is the flavour of the moment, the ancient hark inborn in the Indian mind, for social justice cannot be ruled out.

it is not only in India such a mindset dwells, but also those who are now foreign citizens. I have spoken to many Indians who are now Americans and of all religious denominations and they still have this mindset of having social justice paramount on their mind.

You must read the book, a 1958 political novel by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer titled 'Ugly American', to realise where the US is going wrong. The book has been written a long time ago, but the reasons are still valid.

The Communist philosophy is an anathema to me, but I will say this, that sometimes the US Govt's arrogant stand that they alone are purer than driven snow saddens me.

The US Govt must realise the Indian saying - hamam men sab naga hai

It means that all in the hot steam bathhouse are nude - i.e. exposed and same!
Yet another excellent post from the "Force" behind DFI.... @W.G.Ewald Hope this helps you put things in a perspective as far as Indian empathy for Russia is concerned.

While I agree with you that modern capitalist Russians are as racist as anyone else, but still we can count on them when push comes to shove.

India would never count on US. History taught us that.
 
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angeldude13

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Ok, India is Russia's lapdog & etc.

Makes as much sense.

(And pmailtra is Russian agent by same reasoning.

Q.E.D.

I say again, Indians' worship of Putin now or at any time is not an indicator of anything good for India.
Happy holi :tongue:
 

W.G.Ewald

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Can you point me to where I posted about an UK article in my post. While you are at it point me where I am evasive.

Now I am quoting you properly.
Nah. It will be easier to ignore you from now on.
 

W.G.Ewald

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@Ray

You must read the book, a 1958 political novel by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer titled 'Ugly American', to realise where the US is going wrong. The book has been written a long time ago, but the reasons are still valid.
I think I cited that book myself here at one point. There was a movie made from it, with Marlon Brando, but I only remember the preview in the theater.

I am in the public library now and will look for the book.

A big problem now in American diplomacy, and it has always been the case, that ambassadorships are given to donors of substantial campaign funds. Obama's appointees seem especially ignorant about the countries they are to negotiate with.

Obama under fire for big-money ambassador nominees | WashingtonExaminer.com
 
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W.G.Ewald

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Yet another excellent post from the "Force" behind DFI.... @W.G.Ewald Hope this helps you put things in a perspective as far as Indian empathy for Russia is concerned.

While I agree with you that modern capitalist Russians are as racist as anyone else, but still we can count on them when push comes to shove.

India would never count on US. History taught us that.
Yes, BG Ray's post was helpful to me.

May the Force be with us.
 
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W.G.Ewald

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Indeed. There's a penchant among Indians to liberally dispense with the word "lapdog" to those supporting American positions unmindful of the fact that India is almost always acting like Russia's lapdog. This is a classic case of 4 fingers pointing back at you.
Mother Russia will always be a white lady :)

Why am I thinking about Sonia now?
 

shuvo@y2k10

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My comment is distasteful but you Indians can use the term lapdog with impunity? Your post is just another tiresome dog's breakfast.

What makes me laugh is that you think Yanks and Brits are racist, but Russians are not? Go live in Russia.
first of all i never stoop to your level calling people as lapdogs.if you can't keep the discussion civil like i did then please don't bother to respond to my posts.coming to your point of america and england being a racist country i would say there are a few racist elements in their society which exists even in russian society as well as indian society.but we don't brand entire nation as racists just because they don't agree to my point of view as is being done in american and british media.as far as your rant about going to live in russia i would say no thanks-as i am leading quite a comfortable in kolkata, india and do not wish to relocate to any other country.the problem with you people is your old mentality of either you are with us or against us.we indians right from 1947 have decided to remain non-aligned with military blocks at the same time pursuing peaceful,friendly,diplomatic and buiseness relations with most countries.
 

Mad Indian

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Ray

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Our Man in Havana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another book published about the same time as The Ugly American.
@Ray
Thanks.

I am sure that it will not be available here, but I shall ask my relatives and friends in the US to try the second hand books online and send it to me.

I am sure it will be an eye-opener.

I like the Ugly American because it shows how the US want to do well, but some oafish, some arrogant, some who only will mix with the native elite, mess up the US goodwill.

It is a good book and it makes people feel sorry for the good chaps, who rough it out with the natives, but all their work comes to nought!
 
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