INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by nitesh, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. lcafanboy

    lcafanboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    FGFA will only be ready by 2025-27 and by then last of tranches of rafales will be delivered. After 2030 all jaguars, MIG 29s and a few mirages will be ready to be decommissioned. And these will be replaced by FGFA. From 2035 first of su30mki will start to go which will be replaced by AMCA and so on....

    The reason Rafale s are being bought in tranches is every new tranche will be coming with newer capabilities, earlier we were to buy Rafale f2 but now we are going for F3r standard next will be F4 and then f4.2 and more. This way we will be saving money on future upgrades as newer planes will already be upgraded and only last few planes will require upgrade.

    Look at su30mki deal we are getting planes we negotiated in 2003 and now Russia is having su35. Had we bought in tranches we would have got newer su35 with powerful engines and better capabilities.

    DRAL produced Rafales will be offered in rupees and hence easily affordable. Fun starts when DRAL starts production.....
     
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  2. Kshithij

    Kshithij DharmaYoddha Senior Member

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    It isn't money but dependency. Buying Rafale will make India dependent on France which is unacceptable. In war, France may demand 1billion dollars for rafale, knowing that India has no choice. Dependency will allow France to extort. So, the reason for buying low number of rafales is to avoid dependency
     
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  3. lcafanboy

    lcafanboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Hence Indian manufacturing plant at Nagpur with all major parts manufactured by JV vendors. Also will give India aerospace industry for future self reliance.

    Rafales are actually 5th generation fighters hence the cost. GaN AESA, EW suite spectra, gold plated canopy, avionics, engines all are 5th generation also airframe shape and saw tooth treatment. These are technologies which will go into AMCA. This is what India wants and goi considering all these has gone for rafales.
     
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  4. Kshithij

    Kshithij DharmaYoddha Senior Member

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    Rafale has GaAs AESA, not GaN AESA. Gold plated canopy is not new technology. EW suite is mostly software and France is unlikely to give the codes. Also, India is well capable of making EW on its own.The airframe of Rafale is 4th generation without stealth. Avionics is nothing special in Rafale that India can't make. India has vast experience of making avionics and has made it for Su30 and Tejas. Upgrading it is simple task.

    Until the manufacturing comes up in India, it is futile to make such statements. I also see no reason for France to simply give entire technology to India. If France was giving technology, then there is no need for tejas MK2. Only AMCA project would be enough. The reason India is pursuing Tejas MK2 is because it wants 3 category of plane - Tejas MK2 (light), AMCA(stealth) and Su30 (heavy and long range)
     
  5. binayak95

    binayak95 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Wow. You lapp up Chinese propaganda BS ! There is no 5th Generation fighter in service right now apart from the F22. The J20 is a huge aircraft, with poor EW, bad stealth, horrible P/W ratio and a sitting duck for our Su30MKIs. The Rafale F3s will eat J20s for breakfast.
    The J31 is the Chinese attempt at building low cost alternative to the J20 for export. It's worse in all aspects.
     
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  6. binayak95

    binayak95 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Forget about FGFA now. It's a dead program that's meant to suck in tonnes of Indian money. We are better off washing our hands off this dumb project.
     
  7. darshan978

    darshan978 Regular Member

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    that guy is pdf think tank you now guess who is he
     
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  8. Samsung J7

    Samsung J7 Regular Member

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    Anyone who speaks truth is stamped as Pakistani :laugh: . I think this forum dont deserve quality posters like him.
     
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  9. Arihant

    Arihant Regular Member

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    Yeah..truth..we all saw that mighty j31 in Chinese air show. That smoke which was coming out from engine was alien stealth technology . Poor dfians can not understand that.i am sorry for that.
     
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  10. Sandeep0159

    Sandeep0159 Senior Member

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    We need to have a strict and thorough procedure for membership like Bharat Rakshak,TeamBHP etc...A quality forum like DFI must not have a dilemma who it's members are...Mods, jus wanted to tell my opinion for a long time.
     
  11. itsme

    itsme Regular Member

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    Its not necessarily the truth. Its another perceptive. And its always good to look at things from different perspective and analyse them, that is what a def forum is for. Not circle jerking.Some people here have their head up there ass so deep.
     
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  12. undeadmyrmidon

    undeadmyrmidon Regular Member

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    SELVAM. Since day 1 you have an anti India bias in your statements. Your statements echo JNU pariahs. IDF is probably what the NDTV crowd are looking for. The cesspool is worse than PDF.

    "Physician Heal Thyself"
     
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  13. itsme

    itsme Regular Member

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    Man, you're the one who needs help. I am not SELVAM. Go see a doctor. How is anything what I said is anti Indian? Fuck the JNU dont lump me in with those fools. You were not even in IDF since my Day 1 newBee.

    Show me which of my statement is anti India?
     
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  14. undeadmyrmidon

    undeadmyrmidon Regular Member

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    I have been banned more times than you ever saw a girl's tits. This my 4th account on this website. Since 2008-9 I have been active on IDF, DFI and PDF. I even follow 4chan since 2015. I see very old accounts activating before 2019 as very suspicious.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. itsme

    itsme Regular Member

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    I dint activate my a/c. I just asked you a question to understand your thought process.
     
  16. undeadmyrmidon

    undeadmyrmidon Regular Member

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    And I have understood yours. You're just here to brigade and not contribute anything useful.
     
  17. itsme

    itsme Regular Member

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    And yet you want to drag the conversation without answering my question. Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread more.
     
  18. undeadmyrmidon

    undeadmyrmidon Regular Member

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    Good riddance......don't let the door hit you on the way out.
     
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  19. itsme

    itsme Regular Member

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    Edit: Nevermind.


    [$#@%!&@%@#@#((>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>]
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  20. scatterStorm

    scatterStorm Regular Member

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    Disclaimer: This thread is strictly for discussion on the topic of INS-Vikramaditya, respected forum members, please take your pissing contest somewhere else. Regarding criticism, a forum should support obtuse view points as well. Everyone is welcomed to express there opinions, but your opinions should be strictly limited to thread discussion aswell. If you want to counter each other, there's a "chit-chat" thread. Let's behave like grown up's.


    Regarding No of Carriers: Here's the thing, mandates come and go as they are highly dependent on threat projection and perception. If there's a mandate of 5, there's no guarantee that all 5 would be highly achievable as it dependent on Micro and Macro economic factors. That' being said, if the navy say's they need 5, but they have a "Plan B" i.e. At-least 3 for minimum credible deterrence, than it will be 3.

    Remember, IAF Chief Dhanoa gave a very good understanding what differentiates expectations and reality. Force projection mandate is 3 CVAL's and 2 CVN's, making a total of 5, it good to have it, but minimum credible deterrence is 3 to take care of future strategic national maritime interest of India.

    Regarding Naval Jets: Naval Jet's contrary to popular belief are not usually for offensive purposes, they are mainly required for more of CAS and defensive stance. Take the example of second gulf war fought between Iraq and Coalition forces (Now NATO: New Agenda of Terror and Oppression), most of naval air assets were there to do CAS operations. F18s especially.

    Historical Significance of the value of carrier & Why Number's aren't the only thing:

    Carrier's were born out of the need of for conducting long range strategic maritime missions of national interest and force projection. It's not a deterrence per se, it's more of a forward floating operational naval base and debating over it is pure subjective matter.

    #1: It was Japan in WW2 to have only 1 operational carrier that carried out the infamous Perl harbour raid. That huge shit storm was carried by only 1 operational carrier, several thousand NM away of the cost of Japan ... rest is history.

    Having a Carrier doesn't also mean you go policing the world (unless you are USN).

    #2: In the Falkland wars, even though UK had 2 operational carrier, but Argentinian Navy proved that having few frigates and carriers and Airforce backing your 6, you can slow down the indecisive crack of Royal Navy's operations. In fact, to this day, military analyst are surprised to why the 2 carriers weren't utilised to it's full potential.

    Lesson learn't over here are, you don't need to operate 5 or 10 Carriers. You just need to have your strategic objectives clearly formed, understood and realised. If you need to choke straits and create a naval blockade in eastern and western theatre, you have two of them, the last one is there for reserve and can be called upon when required or could be used to coordinate among the former two.
     
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