India Cold Start Doctrine and Pakistan's Tactical Nukes

[Bhadra]

Tried in 1971,got the battle of longewala.

Sir, Pakistani offensive at Longewala in 1971 was a preemptive and not a counter- attack / counter offensive.

Preemptive is aimed to deny the launch pad or stem the attack. Indian forces and gathered around Ramgarh - Tanot to be launched but could not do that due to Pakistani offensive on Longewala.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

pakistan is ready for everything.after balakot,we know india will not sit silent and do something.we are waiting for an indian attack.this concept of cold start requires IAF to take out pakistani military installations and airbases.indian ground forces will not move until positive message from iaf which is impossible in current situation because paf already have large fleet of fighters.we know india will not deploy all su-30s and all rafales on pakistani border and all fighters will never attack pakistan.iaf managed to infiltrate because of lack of sams on pakistani side.this is a concern for pakistan.i think pakistan will improve sam network near border.iaf have to face both sams and fighter jets.i don't think that it's easy.cold start is not possible.cold start will surely escalate to multiple fronts.problems for indian army is supply lines and iaf presence.this can be very dangerous because it can trap you.we have almost 70 f-16s and i am sure we are safe.block 3 jf-17 doesn't even need to go closer to border.we just need more sams.both armies use missiles,tactical nuclear weapons.they are very dangerous.they are not hand grenade or rifle bullets.they are real threat.

You need to consider the large arsenal of Brahmos missiles which the Indian army and air force will use from the get go. Pakistan has reserved most of it's cruise missiles for nuclear attack, whereas most of India's Brahmos are for conventional strikes, and in much greater numbers. India will be able to carry out an overwhelming number of precision strikes deep within Pakistani territory. Pakistan on the other hand will have only it's air option for strikes deeper within India territory (Which has much greater strategic depth). Complicating this is the much better Indian SAM network, even without S400 being operational.

Additionally, the tank balance is much further in India's favour than numbers suggest. India has 2000 T 90s and about 1500 upgraded t 72's. Pakistan has only about 350 Al Khalids and 320 t 80s. All other Pakistani tanks, though upgraded, will not be very effective, as they are all upgraded type 59s, which is the Chinese copy of the t 55. I'm not even counting the 2000 T 55s India has. The only advantage Pakistan has is in attack helicopters, but your Cobras are easy to deal with Spyder missiles.

And with today's weaponry, Pakistan's concentration of logistics along the border will only be convenient targets for India.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Sir, Pakistani offensive at Longewala in 1971 was a preemptive and not a counter- attack / counter offensive.

Preemptive is aimed to deny the launch pad or stem the attack. Indian forces and gathered around Ramgarh - Tanot to be launched but could not do that due to Pakistani offensive on Longewala.

Yes i know,i was just teasing him because the attack was launched on the same jaisalmer area.
Even if they today launch a counter attack we have apaches and cbu armed jaguars for a even more heavier response to armoured columns.

 

[Mikesingh]

Yep, the crop needs to be destroyed and not allowed to be grown. Fully agree.

CIA is an animal in a different league. I doubt CIA is benefiting from Afghan poppy. Could be rumours. ISI definitely is running an organized drug network.

Things that CIA did in the past may not be hugely relevant now. America is seriously trying to control its drug problem.

I agree that drug money sustains jihadi.

According the intel sources, the CIA flies the drugs all over Southeast Asia, to sites where the opium is processed into heroin, and to trans-shipment points on the route to Western customers.

As long as the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan continues under the guise of establishing a democratic government, the flow of heroin will continue unabated.

One question we should ask is, who owns the planes and the ships that transport 90% percent of the world’s heroin from Afghanistan to the rest of the world in the first place? It sure isn’t the Taliban or the ISI (which uses the drug trade for financing terrorism mostly in India and Afghanistan as well as financing its nuclear program).

It's a 1.5 trillion dollar industry! So will the US quit Afghanistan? Not a chance as the stakes are too high. The market is too lucrative to be handed over to Iran, the Pakis or the Chinese. Check it out:


CIA guarding the poppy fields in Afghanistan.....

 

[garg_bharat]

I have seen these videos. I guess you believe everything that is posted on youtube.

I guess even a passing soldier can be called as protecting poppy field.

America does not need Afghan poppy. It has plenty coming from South America. In fact America spends huge amount to stop this supply.

Afghan poppy is used in the region where it is produced - including China.

Afghan drugs are a headache for India. Pakistan has a very serious drug problem too.

 

[Mikesingh]

I have seen these videos. I guess you believe everything that is posted on youtube.

No! You guess wrong! I've read tons of material on this. I can't post all that here, can I?

I guess even a passing soldier can be called as protecting poppy field.

Again, your guess is wrong. Check out the episodes on the History Channel, 'America’s War on Drugs'. I'm sure you are aware they produce programs after a good deal of research.

America does not need Afghan poppy.

Really? How can you be so sure the CIA has delinked itself from the drug trade in Afghanistan? Please point me to an authoritative link that says so.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Again, your guess is wrong. Check out the episodes on the History Channel, 'America’s War on Drugs'. I'm sure you are aware they produce programs after a good deal of research.
.

The History Channel that produced Ancient Aliens and UFO Hunters?

 

[Arsalan123]

Tried in 1971,got the battle of longewala.

Great to have you here.i heard that you left PDF because of religious issue.your knowledge is very helpful for all of us.yes longewala true.

 

[Arsalan123]

And why do you assume IMF will just sit and let you guys cut off the supply lines? Why do you assume the bigger part of our force which is not part of cold start IBGs will sit idle? PFs offensive will be met with another counter offense.

This is not my assumption.i picked this option from bhadra post.see post above.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Great to have you here.i heard that you left PDF because of religious issue.your knowledge is very helpful for all of us.yes longewala true.

Not possible for any self respecting indian to remain there unless he has rhino hide or patience of a sage.Same for pakistanis here,so courageous of you i suppose.

 

[Arsalan123]

Oh really, congratulations! You think Pakistan has a choice? India is interested in drawing Pakistani forces out of their "gudadi" (quilts) for engagements and destroy them. Pay increased prices. That is what "Cold Start" is all about.


yes buddy, that is what India wants to convey to our good neighbours that terrorist acts in India will not be free of cost. The cost now will be multi million dollars F-16. You have only one choice - stop your Jihadi activities.



Your understanding of the situation is correct that the "Cold Start" will start with surgical strikes with IAF. However, it will be very difficult for Pakistan to deny favourable air situation to IAF in selected areas and sectors. Look at the state of affairs - you guys are ready to buy SAMs and other AD assets at your peril but not ready to hand over that terrorist Masood Azhar. Your strategic assets have become your strategic liabilities.
That is what "Cold Start" is all about.



You are somewhat right in your assessment.
Any conflict between India and Pakistan is going to be difficult. That is what India knows - make things more difficult for Pakistan to pursue a dangerous path of "terrorism".

"Cold Start" is escalatory in nature but escalation has heavier price for Pakistan to pay - her extinction from the face of earth. India will help take Pakistani Mullahs and Jihadis to their final day of Judgement - Qayamat so that entire nation is bestowed 72 Whores each.

Offensive actions and penetration at multiple points (7-8 point) will divide Pakistani reaction - ground or air and deny advantages of inner line of communication to Pakistan in concentration and switching of forces. Concentrated and selective employment of Sectoral Reserves will be very difficult to decide. Specially when meanwhile India's three / four big Strike corps will be on the line of march to be employed at the selected place and at selected time. The advantages of initiative and choice will remain with Indian Army.

And yes, Indian infrastructure has vastly improved since the days of Op Parakram and interior lines of communication have also improved. Vital elements of "cold Start" are being upgraded, improved and redeployed.

Cold start is reality with which both the nations will have live with. No Nasar or Babur can stop it. Now we will give you thousand cuts beginning with ten cuts of "Cold Start".

All the best,

I agree with you.we will never hand over our citizen to india.azhar was banned based on hijacking and not terrorism in india.you feel that he is terrorist but you aren't giving us credible evidence.credible evidence means transmission intercepts.
Extinction of Pakistan means extinction of india.we told you thousand times that we know your military superiority and large number of missiles and iaf jets.we planned our game in a way so that we can also destroy you completely before our own extinction.as I said we are ready and your people watching our every move from satellite are wise.they know some missile places but not all and this is a big surprise.we don't want extinction of sub continent.don't mind.lol

 

[Arsalan123]

Not possible for any self respecting indian to remain there unless he has rhino hide or patience of a sage.Same for pakistanis here,so courageous of you i suppose.

Yes I feel that it was religious and that's why everybody was asking questions but some senior members praised you just because of your knowledge.things in PDF aren't good lol.

 

[Arsalan123]

Ha Ha Ha ....

Certain basic Assumptions :

Frontage of this operations will be 15-20 kms ( five armored regiments) with sufficient flank protection, at least one of the flanks having an independent armored Brigade. (three armoured regiment - Total 10 armoured regiments, if RAPID not employed, otherwise 12 armored regiments).
What have you - maximum five armored regiments and two R&SP battalions including secoral reserves.
Those five regiment would have been decimated by the time three / four thrust lines concentrate around Rahim Yar Khan.
A fire base of 45km in depth and 50-60 km in width by 155 artillery -16-20 artillery regiments, Smerch, Pinaka, BM grad rocket artillery topped with Brahmos and Prahar. Oh boy, who will allow you in that zone.(155 ke gole bade bade hote hain bhai).

Now, you will have to employ ARS - 5-7 armoured regiments to come to Jaisalmer. Firstly forget about using 40 km frontage leading from RYK to jaisalmer through Islamgarh or Tanot-Longewala. It means you will have to go towards Bahawalpur and launch through Bijnot or from Sukkur Daharki - Yaro Lund coming on to Longewala. This will be contested by five armoured regiments besides 12 armoured regiment of main offensive.

By the time you decide on it and launch your operation it would be minimum seven days past the start. By that time Indian forces will be having a bath at Guddu Barrage, having their "chhota pg" on the banks of Sindh, National Highway physically held across Sindh and and ,,,,, Pakistan broken into two parts,.

So that option is not going to work out .... think of something else.

You have no other options....Karachi and Hyderabad will be celebrating Diwali and Chinese boarding their ships at Gwadar with lots of Pakistani begums.

Hahahaha.bhai bhadra you want nuclear war.karachi and Hyderabad Diwali hahaha.

 

[Arsalan123]

You need to consider the large arsenal of Brahmos missiles which the Indian army and air force will use from the get go. Pakistan has reserved most of it's cruise missiles for nuclear attack, whereas most of India's Brahmos are for conventional strikes, and in much greater numbers. India will be able to carry out an overwhelming number of precision strikes deep within Pakistani territory. Pakistan on the other hand will have only it's air option for strikes deeper within India territory (Which has much greater strategic depth). Complicating this is the much better Indian SAM network, even without S400 being operational.

Additionally, the tank balance is much further in India's favour than numbers suggest. India has 2000 T 90s and about 1500 upgraded t 72's. Pakistan has only about 350 Al Khalids and 320 t 80s. All other Pakistani tanks, though upgraded, will not be very effective, as they are all upgraded type 59s, which is the Chinese copy of the t 55. I'm not even counting the 2000 T 55s India has. The only advantage Pakistan has is in attack helicopters, but your Cobras are easy to deal with Spyder missiles.

And with today's weaponry, Pakistan's concentration of logistics along the border will only be convenient targets for India.

Brahmos is a good missile.we have two types of missiles.one is babur and the other is raad.we understand threat.it is not easy my friend.

 

[ezsasa]

Brahmos is a good missile.we have two types of missiles.one is babur and the other is raad.we understand threat.it is not easy my friend.

How many Babur/raad regiments are there in Pakistani inventory?

One missile does not do significant damage in a non-nuclear strike. For an airfield it takes 40-60 of those to reach the airfield to do some damage.

 

[Arsalan123]

How many Babur/raad regiments are there in Pakistani inventory?

One missile does not do significant damage in a non-nuclear strike. For an airfield it takes 40-60 of those to reach the airfield to do some damage.

If you want conventional,we will adopt conventional.if you go nuclear,we will also follow.our cruise missiles can carry nuclear warheads.i think everything will start with iaf and paf aerial fight.ground troops will fight only after aerial conflict is over.

 

[ezsasa]

If you want conventional,we will adopt conventional.if you go nuclear,we will also follow.our cruise missiles can carry nuclear warheads.i think everything will start with iaf and paf aerial fight.ground troops will fight only after aerial conflict is over.

For this discussion purpose,let’s stick to non-nuclear options...


I go back to my original question. How many regiments of RAAD/Babur are there in PA inventory...

Please ensure your answer is non-rhetorical.. I am in mood for a productive discussion.

 

[Haldiram]

I am in mood for a productive discussion.

....umm...with a Paki?

 

[ezsasa]

....umm...with a Paki?

Yup, I do my bit to have one every year. Just so that I can say I tried...

 

[A chauhan]

Extinction of Pakistan means extinction of india.we told you thousand times that we know your military superiority and large number of missiles and iaf jets.we planned our game in a way so that we can also destroy you completely before our own extinction.as I said we are ready and your people watching our every move from satellite are wise.they know some missile places but not all and this is a big surprise.we don't want extinction of sub continent.don't mind.lol

Hehehe, and we were taking you seriously...