If India has to go for a two fronts war against China and Pakistan...

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Sabir, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. duhastmish

    duhastmish Regular Member

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    thatst he fact !!!!!! neither country want war- but we have to keep our self prepared just for worst case scenario .
     
  2. Sabir

    Sabir DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    dear, we are just discussing an imaginary situation and in a war with China our maximum objective is to bring a deadlock situation.....win is beyond our capability ( Haven't i mentioned India must not misadventure to enrage China to come for full fledged)...We all know it is better for both of us if there is no war.

    Plz suggest what you should have done if you have to formulate strategy for India.
     
  3. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

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    may be thats what alliance is . you look for ur gain and they look for their gain. then you have an agreement. both gain from each other. India expects something from US and US too would expect something from India.
     
  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    It's a good topic to discuss but as usual it's spiralling into the usual stuff. Why can't we use our analytical mind to think what can happen, strategize etc. Let's leave the non sense bravado and get real. We don't have to start baiting even while talking about imaginary scenarios.
     
  5. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    mate, it isnt that we cant have the us in this discussion, in fact if such a conflict were to ever happen, the us will play a very important part but things have to be kept in context. problem arises when a post is made which has is a slight connection to the main topic and from that one post slowly and steady the whole mode of the discussion changes. ideally the focus should remain with the topic at hand, if we can have some sound analysis where the us is properly presented as party to the whole conflict it is fine and such posts will be entertained but if a post is seen as an attempt to derail the thread it will be deleted.

    please continue.
     
  6. natarajan

    natarajan Senior Member Senior Member

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    even usa is fearing chinese just see how many fighters(3rd in world),triple no of warships than us,icbm,10 nuke subs with missile range of more than 10,000
    with srilanka ,bangla,pakistn as bases
     
  7. shotgunner

    shotgunner Regular Member

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    USA & China are not friends. Both only want maximum interests for their own country. Though objective is the same but coming from different muds, strategy differs, China is "Peaceful Rise" & US is "Engagement + Containment".

    For Pentagon, CIA, White House and the banksters, a war (not clash, battle) between China & any non-US country would be best Christmas present they can dream of. Arms race also not bad, even just one side is buying American. But which non-US country? ... seems like India is the best candidate.

    Yes, they will try to keep us down, but the question is, are we going to help them achieve the goal? China government is for sure not buying that $hit.

    As LETHAL FORCE said, we Chinese have fought several blood-bath wars with US, if the next war is forced upon us, then just do it, nothing new. A common complaint among PLA-Amry on PLAAF & PLAN is "wish we have the same projection ability as the US so we can fight them in their soil". But a full-fledged war with India? That's stupid.

    But Indo-Pak is a potential trouble, just like China was unwillingly dragged into Vietnam-Cambodia conflict in 1978. But I think now societies have changed, Indo-Pak may become business competitors instead of military enemies. Trade, more trade, that will diffuse hostility, like Germany-France-Britain, Korea-Japan. High & evenly distrubuted living standards, that will promote pacifism, like N Europe & Japan. Erase poverty, that will remove roots of hate.
     
  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    any more baiting will result in this thread being closed. All thst has been posted in the last few threads has been in one way or the other been posted in various threads.
     
  9. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    ‘Manifest Destiny’ Goes to Sea
    Strategists in New Delhi phrase their analyses of India’s maritime surroundings—and the proper responses to those surroundings—in decidedly geopolitical terms. Consider India’s 2007 Maritime Military Strategy, which contends that India’s geopolitical rise and quest for prosperity necessitate ‘a concomitant accretion of national power, of which the military power will be a critical dimension’. Declares the chief of naval staff in its foreword:

    India’s primary national interest … is to ensure a secure and stable environment, which will enable continued economic development and social
    upliftment of our masses. This in turn will allow India to take its rightful place in the comity of nations and attain its manifest destiny … we do not harbour any extra-territorial ambitions, but aim to safeguard our vital national interests. Therefore … our primary maritime military interest is to ensure national security, provide insulation from external interference, so that the vital tasks of fostering economic growth and undertaking developmental
    activities, can take place in a secure environment.


    I submit that …
    The Portuguese retention of Goa is a continuing interference with the political
    system established in India today. I shall go a step further and say that any
    interference by any other power would also be an interference with the political system of India today … It may be that we are weak and we cannot prevent
    that interference. But the fact is that any attempt by a foreign power to
    interfere in any way with India is a thing which India cannot tolerate, and which, subject to her strength, she will oppose. That is the broad doctrine I lay down. (Pandit jawaharlal Nehru)


    indian navy's strategies are well posed/flexible (offencive and defencive both/ inner water navy and blue water navy) and professionally instituted.if studied carefully; one can clearly explain recent developments perfectly entertaining the same.
    If we assume that china is going to attack indian navy via indian ocean for decisive win than limited attack from north east then china being on offence have to heavily rely on its supply routs for oil etc. i am sure at that time china will be able to have alt. routs in case supplies from indian ocean will be blocked by Indian navy. Still it will be a big mammoth and costlier task for them. However if they are using their friendly nations ports then again it will be time consuming task to upgrade those trade concentric ports to offencive ones. furthermore it will be a big logistical, tactical and Geo political task for china to convince those nations and perform.(dont read pakistani BS PP that india's relations are bad with most of the nations in sub cont. i will post a link which is very authentic and research based where its been stressed that india's relations with Asian countries specially in south east Asia are improving dramatically, thanks to last three Govt. restless efforts).
    why US is afraid of china is difficult to comment ;to be blunt its baseless.
    So on chines offence they will be deprived of land base assistance to counter indian navy but indian navy will be having land base cruise missiles batteries all over west east cost to Andaman Nicobar islands.
    Indian navy is well aware of its seas and may follow offencive defencive strategy to attack chines Air craft carriers with sea,land,air and space based surveillance tracking and super/hyper sonic cruise missiles. India is heavily investing on stealthy vessels to hunt down subs. Boeing's P-8i will restrict their movement for sure as well. highly protected Indian air craft carriers with balanced displacement will enable us to neutralize any land/air base attack as well.
    In case of Pakistan their strategy will be flexible, to engage Indian navy in their littoral waters, to cause maximum damage by brief scattered stealthy in high sea traffic saturation areas(more electronic interference) with limited but capable land base attack. They will opt the same strategy on offencive India as offencive defencive. So best option for Indian navy will be to stay afloat in deep waters, massive attack form land base weaponry.wait and Force them into deep waters. Prolong the blockade. Just adequate use of naval resources.
     
  10. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    The USA won the war because their factories were out of reach of their enemies. The Russians, with almost half their country over-run could keep fighting because their factories were east of the Urals, out of reach of the Luftwaffe.

    BUT, China's military factories will not be producing anything after a week of war, let alone function, why because either they would be bombed to the stone age by the IAF, or they would not have any raw materials to work with. Why, because nothing will reach China through the Straits of Malacca.

    And the string of pearls, well, Sri Lanka won't help in this area, anything through Pakistan will be within Indian reach, and I doubt Bangladesh of Myanmar would wan't to get involved in this.
     
  11. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    excuse me,guy, bombing china is different from boming Jugoslavia. CHina is as large as the whole europe . China's industry bases scatters all over china,from manchus to Guangzhou,from Shanghai to Chongqing.

    it is even a mission impossible for Yankee's to to destroy the industry of a country as large as europe just with air strikes,if nuke is not used.


    when did IAF get super strategic bomber which can penetrate PLA's airdefence net and bomb out china's industry bases all over china?
     
  12. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    J10Bs are stealth fighters with internal weapons bays? A rip off of the F-16s with Chinese stuff. Right.

    This thread was meant to discuss strategy and tactics, but posts such as yours have changed it to a joke.
     
  13. shotgunner

    shotgunner Regular Member

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    The War is impossible, and stupid for both sides. But, back to this topic "IF India has to go for a two fronts war against China and Pakistan... ". Note the "IF" i.e. a hypothetical scenario.

    IF it happens, I mostly agree with some bloggers here, India has to correctly set a objective (safeguard civilians & economy, militarily achievable) which is likely to be "Win on Pakistan, Draw with China".

    Then trying to bomb Chinese factories, trading routes, is not a good strategy, cos
    1) IAF not likely to possess overwhelming advantage
    2) Given geographical reality, if Chinese factories were time-travelled back to stone age, then Indian factories would likely to become historic memorials
    3) International politics is complicated, hence not realiable. Only thing matters is own nation's interests.
    4) Most importantly, it invites strategic escalation from Chinese & completely fails the purpose.

    What is a good strategy? It should be more sophisticated than just military means, I tend to include diplomatic skills, economic clout etc. Let's continue.
     
  14. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    I have not written India tested 200 KT yield nuke , please read my post again, Dear Sammy,

    Thermonuclear device tasted at Shakti-I pit in Pokhran II , yield downgraded to 45 KT for tasting purpose.

    Regards
     
  15. shotgunner

    shotgunner Regular Member

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    QUOTE=SammyCheung;47739]Dear Pintu,
    You cannot test this 200 kT nuke. Even if you do a supercomputer simulation, you can never know it really works until you test it physically. So right now, all India has is the 15 kT warhead.[/QUOTE]

    Dear both, nukes won't matter, cos it deems to be a limited warfare.

    Due to geographical reality
    1) China's "tactical range" weapons already serve "strategic range" purpose, it is a Chinese advantage
    2) India is next to Pakistan on which lies China's trading route, it is an Indian advantage
    3) Terrain so bad on Chinese side, population too dense on Indian side, no stage for large scale land battle
    Based on some insights from the Gaming Theory, it would be wise for both to quickly put cap on the war and focus on solving the underlying issue that starts it (whatever it is, may be territorial, accidental firing, one side being dragged into it by military pact with US/Pakistan).

    Also, a war, limited and nicely choreographed, gives wise politicians on both sides a chance to claim "victories" to their people while resolving real issues under-the-table.
     
  16. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    Dear Shotgunner,

    Agreed with you on points , and also I don't believe in nuke also , the data was given for Sammy's information.

    Regards
     
  17. threadbrowser

    threadbrowser Regular Member

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    Well speaking of China, i believe that both in terms of equipment as well as doctrine the PLA is ahead of the InA. After reading several posts by OOE and Xinhui at World affairs Board, I think that the Peoples Army is moving forward much faster than the InA.
    Remember as early as the 1950s the PLA fought the US to a standstill in Korea.
    Even so many years after operation Vijay we are yet to decide on the ToE and makeup of our projected Integrated Battle Groups.
     
  18. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Thread closed for moderation. All OT posts will be removed.
     
  19. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    thread is reopened after the clean up please follow the thread topic only any other irrelevant posts will be deleted
     
  20. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    what if India has to go for two front war against china and Pakistan........

    That might come true one day if China attach India first then Pakistan jump into conflect/war as opportunist.......

    however this might not be the case, if Pakistan or India start the war with one another, in that case china just might increase their troups in India-china border, so that India might not divert too many soilders into Pakistan war theater........

    now what are the options against India, if some thing like what the topic says happen....

    our forces have specially, IAF has worked towards this and they have demaded that their fighter strength must be increased to level, where, they can plan offencive operations against Pakistan and defencive operations against china.

    that is best way to take on both china and pakistan......

    China has massive advantage against us in terms of all the three wings, but they too cannot afford to move their troups from Tiwan......(as they might take advantage of the situation and proclaim independence against China).

    If we have to go to war against pakistan and china at the same time then we have to rethink about or nuclear doctrine and then we have to be more pro active..... we have to use our diplomatice skills to get aid, information and support from arround the world and at the same time take on both.......
     

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