I have a doubt!

[pmaitra]

Russian state coffers are empty and they would sell to whoever they can persuade.

This statement is false.

Of course, if one were to subscribe to the school of economics that gives more value to pieces of paper than physical gold, then you are almost absolutely correct.

Our foreign policy should be balancing rather then choosing sides.

+1

 

[Screambowl]

Russian state coffers are empty and they would sell to whoever they can persuade.

Also, this Make in India campaign and clear-up and increased transparency of MoD by Parrikar has hit the Russians middle-men hard. The only way India can bargain with Russians to not sell their stuff to Pak is by buying their sub-standard products. Anyway, Russia is more than eager to sell to China which in turn would sell everything to Pak. So, Russia directly selling to Pak is not much different than Pak acquiring knowhow indirectly through China.

Most of the times Russia's first choice is always India. The recent news of making India a hub of Kilo class submarine has showed that their arms dealers still believe India as their potential and trust worthy market. The TOT you will get only from Russia , France or Israel. Because the dealers can guarantee that no Reverse Engineer will happen. It is always the license Production. If Reverse Engineering happens it will be informed and India get's the leverage due to cordial relations unlike China.

Why Russia leaned towards China because China can build weapons 5 times faster than India due to their strong industry. Had India upgraded it'S industry in 80's Russia would still give us weapons in one time negotiation and not like Gorshkov. Because then there would be risk of losing India's market to some other arms dealer.

And not just Russia, every country with whom India negotiates they ask two things, 1) can you maintain the quality and absorb technology. 2) How much time would India require to seal the deal.

I do not favor Russia all the time, If US provides us weapons with ToT and less norms , we should also go for them depending on the requirement . But even in today's age it is only Russia which can compete US in terms of technology.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Most of the people here took my comments to interpret that I hate relations with Russia. I too meant a balancing of relations but with clear open mind that Russia has its national priorities and it would sell stuff to whosoever can buy.

But if you think Russia will continue to be military leader in the next two decades, I can only say wake up and take your heads out of sand.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

This statement is false.

Of course, if one were to subscribe to the school of economics that gives more value to pieces of paper than physical gold, then you are almost absolutely correct.

+1

No, we should give more value to minerals lying under the ground, which might have no usage in future!

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Ya right ,"Parrikar has hit the Russians middle-men hard"

Do you know Parrikar is going to legalize middle men in India ? what do you know about Russian middle men? do you know if they are Russians or Indians ? and how to you think Israel does arms business with India ? or for that sake any other European companies ?

The only companies that don't employee a middle man are American companies, but they lobby in a different way.

Russia is important to India as long as they have vast natural resources that India is going to need to grow for the next 30 years. Our foreign policy should be balancing rather then choosing sides.

Please don't judge others, i might have an different opinion and stop name calling.

Why do you think he is legalizing?

It will change the system and make it open and transparent to competition where you can see how money exchange hands. So less scope for kickbacks. Overall, Russia stands to lose with this setup because they have the biggest share in arms import.

 

[Screambowl]

Most of the people here took my comments to interpret that I hate relations with Russia. I too meant a balancing of relations but with clear open mind that Russia has its national priorities and it would sell stuff to whosoever can buy.

But if you think Russia will continue to be military leader in the next two decades, I can only say wake up and take your heads out of sand.

Not a military leader but a technology hub, specially for military hardware. They may sell it to who so ever they want. But we need to have a lobby that Pakistan does not get the option of getting the technology, otherwise they will use it against India no matter what.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Not a military leader but a technology hub, specially for military hardware. They may sell it to who so ever they want. But we need to have a lobby that Pakistan does not get the option of getting the technology, otherwise they will use it against India no matter what.

Pakistan is 280 billion $ economy with defence budget of some 14 billion $. Do you really think they can buy anything useful from Russia (or for that matter anyone) after paying their bills? I do not think Russia will give them anything for free. So, India is not in such a bad position given that even if Russian share in Indian arms imports goes down it would still be significantly large for some diplomacy.

 

[charlie]

Why do you think he is legalizing?

It will change the system and make it open and transparent to competition where you can see how money exchange hands. So less scope for kickbacks. Overall, Russia stands to lose with this setup because they have the biggest share in arms import.

Well companies will be allowed to choose their representatives in India, What does that tell you ?

Well kickbacks will be renamed as commission and things will go on, it does not matter which government it is, somethings cannot be changed.

I would use an example of gambling in India, you know nobody can stop it, you can control it somewhat but still it keeps on growing. the only way to get hold of it would be legalizing it.

Russia started loosing contracts way before this government took over,but the future relationship with Russia will not just depend on weapons only.

 

[aliyah]

u think russia feeling bad coz we buying from other sources. dont u think china will feel bad too if paki replace cheap Chinese defense equipment with Russian??

 

[Screambowl]

Pakistan is 280 billion $ economy with defence budget of some 14 billion $. Do you really think they can buy anything useful from Russia (or for that matter anyone) after paying their bills? I do not think Russia will give them anything for free. So, India is not in such a bad position given that even if Russian share in Indian arms imports goes down it would still be significantly large for some diplomacy.

The weapon procurement of Pakistan is not like India and little odd in market. From edit:2006-2015 US has given them all the left over military equipments in Afghanistan. Including ammo, artillery, some electronics stuff, land vehicles. And Pakistan has not paid for it. Just like Pak F-16 are second hand bought from Jordan.

Second role is played by China where Pakistan only pays half or even less and rest is paid by China while selling them equipments. Similarly, US aid in billions have not been used in development, but weapon procurement.

This is how they acquire weaponry. Within short notice, they basically go for ready made weapons, or second hand.

 

[pmaitra]

Well companies will be allowed to choose their representatives in India, What does that tell you ?

Well kickbacks will be renamed as commission and things will go on, it does not matter which government it is, somethings cannot be changed.

I would use an example of gambling in India, you know nobody can stop it, you can control it somewhat but still it keeps on growing. the only way to get hold of it would be legalizing it.

Russia started loosing contracts way before this government took over,but the future relationship with Russia will not just depend on weapons only.

Gambling is legal in India. There are so many state lotteries abound.

Even printing counterfeit currency is legal, as long as it is done by the Reserve Bank of India.

It is all the same, "do as I say, not do as I do," stuff.

 

[anoop_mig25]

Russian state coffers are empty and they would sell to whoever they can persuade.

Also, this Make in India campaign and clear-up and increased transparency of MoD by Parrikar has hit the Russians middle-men hard. The only way India can bargain with Russians to not sell their stuff to Pak is by buying their sub-standard products. Anyway, Russia is more than eager to sell to China which in turn would sell everything to Pak. So, Russia directly selling to Pak is not much different than Pak acquiring knowhow indirectly through China.

If russia has sub-standarad stuffs why would china buy in first place ?????

 

[sorcerer]

I have a doubt that whatever I am thinking is it logical or not.

Their Paki COAS Jahil Sharif made visit to South Africa, China, Russia before the BRICS - SCO meet.
And now such fake(which I posted above) news are becoming a trend among Paki forums and Media. To me it looks like....

1) Pakistan is trying to counter India's move in every organisation India is a member. So that India does not divert any group against Pakistan specially on terrorism issues.

2) Secondly to maintain a positive and welcoming stance unlike before for all the countries with which India enjoys very good relations.

3 ) Silently , Pakistan military has shifted it's diplomacy not for their trade deals but to give a setback to India through their aggressive diplomacy which has recently taken up the momentum.

There is certainly a pattern.
The burden China is bearing to keep the Pakistan on its leash.
Pak is trying to use the Chinese momentum to gain a strategic advantage in international arena.

Let them do all that, but when it comes to the ground realities of what PAK can offer to various organizations or nations, the whole thing they offer will remain only as a hypothesis.

The catalyst to such reaction will be the enormous discontent and criticism the ruling Pak establishment faces from its own camp, its supporters and the civilian population.
As always Pakistan is faking it. One day or the other its gonna fall apart. Them Pakis will never learn.

IMO, I see it as a sign that the Indian establishment, the current Indian Govt is on the track and they are really shaping up things. In short Indian establishment is giving Pak the heebie-jeebies.

He (Kautilya) advised the strong kings not only to keep a close eye on his associates and allies, but to surround the enemy kings and the weak kings with his agents so that no one could use subversive and guerrilla tactics to either assassinate the strong king or create disruptions within his empire.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

If russia has sub-standarad stuffs why would china buy in first place ?????

Sub-standard compared to other stuff we can buy currently. Ofcourse, China cannot buy from the world market and Russia is ahead of them.

 

[ARUN R]

russians not gonna give stuff for free,atleast not in big numbers like chinese does,
maybe russians dont have that kind of cheap stuff anymore,

chinese giving free stuff to pakis because chinese need pakis for that road and port they built in paki country for oil or goods transport,

unless russians have that hugh interest in pakis,russian not do much for paki for free,
maybe russian are just probing india because indias close ties with usa.

I think Chinese want to test their weapons using Pakistani resources, so that they could improvise.

 

[charlie]

Gambling is legal in India. There are so many state lotteries abound.

Even printing counterfeit currency is legal, as long as it is done by the Reserve Bank of India.

It is all the same, "do as I say, not do as I do," stuff.

I was pointing towards the cricket bets.

 

[rock127]

Good that you clarified that you are not one.

We are improving relations with our neighbours now barring Pakistan and I think that is good. Russia is going down and the current tensions created by them only point towards last gasps of a powerful nation. The next century will not be dominated by minerals and fossil fuels and I see Russia falling into darkness unless it reforms its crony society. The best deal for future Russia is to be China's lackey.

India is getting into big guys' club as @DingDong pointed out and should behave as one. Also, it should not expect deep trustworthy relationships with anyone. Favours will only be determined by what India brings on table for others benefit.

It would not be surprising if Pakis again try to create issues with our neighbors.

If I remember Pakis somehow managed to create tension between India and BD when BD soldiers killed some Indian soldiers and sent hanging on sticks BUT somehow India didn't invade or even teach BD a lesson for such attack.Pakis were frustrated since they expected India to take some action on BD.

With MODI opening a new chapter in foreign relations specially neighbor I smell something cooking by pakis as they are getting frustrated and it's been a while they didn't have a significant war with India.

 

[charlie]

Why do you think he is legalizing?

It will change the system and make it open and transparent to competition where you can see how money exchange hands. So less scope for kickbacks. Overall, Russia stands to lose with this setup because they have the biggest share in arms import.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/india/no-more-commissions-for-arms-agents-manohar-parrikar_1809073.html

didn't I tell you he was legalizing it, actually I heard this from an agent who was in Belarus back in Feb 2014 when even modi government did not win the election.

There was no other way other then legalizing it, neither is "fixed amount" going to work, companies will find ways to accommodate these guys in other ways.

it happens all over the world.