HAL Advanced Light Helicopter Dhruv

[Craigs]

Can you provide proof / links of these crashes while under HAL care ?

And there were no crashes of Dhruv everymonth. That's pure bs.

100% of the 16 incidents were with operators /end users . Zero in HAL care.
What are you talking about ?

That is what smells - Zero in HAL care and total mess in customers. Is HAL making products for themselves?

 

[rkhanna]

That is what smells - Zero in HAL care and total mess in customers. Is HAL making products for themselves?

I am sorry. That's a juvenile statement .

How many was due to a design flaw in the tail rotor ( Dhruv) .

How many were due to pilot error / airframe fatigue / second hand OEM parts from ex soviet states / bird hits etc

You can't lay that all at HALs feet .

 

[Indx TechStyle]

There is no conspiracy ,if you remember dhruv delivered to ecquador were returned because of reliability issues and one had crashed ,as there is no hire and fire policy ,the mediocrity will continue

Though, they haven't got issues with any other country.

 

[abingdonboy]

There is no conspiracy ,if you remember dhruv delivered to ecquador were returned because of reliability issues and one had crashed ,as there is no hire and fire policy ,the mediocrity will continue

Total misreading of history.

Ecuador crashes EVERYTHING they fly, look it up. They trusted the ALH to be the transport for their PRESIDENT, it’s a world class machine. What can HAL do about their atrocious standards? Look at the air show crash, 100% pilot error but even in that dramatic crash the pilots both WALKED away almost scratch free. Don’t try and tell me these aren’t first rate machines.

ALH has always shown itself to be utterly world class and has done everything that has ever been asked of it and much more.

 

[G10]

Dhruv track record is not that world class but may be average at best.

• In November 2005, a Dhruv crash-landed in Andhra Pradesh, causing the entire fleet to be grounded; the subsequent probe found a fault with the helicopter's tail rotor blades, which has since been corrected.[23][24]
• On 2 February 2007, during rehearsals prior to Aero India, a HAL Dhruv of the Sarang helicopter display team of the Indian Air Forcecrashed, killing co-pilot Squadron Leader Priye Sharma and injuring the pilot Wing Commander Vikas Jetley.[126] After being in a coma for almost four years, Vikas Jetley died in January 2011.[127] The helicopter team continued to perform in the air show.[128]
• In October 2009, an Ecuadorian Air Force Dhruv flew into the ground near Quito while attempting formation flight with two other helicopters. The remaining six aircraft were grounded during the investigation, which later concluded pilot error to be the cause.[129]
• In February 2010, an Indian Air Force Dhruv was forced to make a crash landing after suffering a loss of power while rehearsing for the "Vayu Shakti" air show; both pilots survived.[23]
• On 14 December 2010, a Dhruv crashed in Jammu injuring all 9 personnel on board.[130]
• On 22 December 2010, a Dhruv crashed in Leh injuring both pilots.[130]
• On 21 April 2011, four army personnel were killed when a Dhruv crashed in north Sikkim. Initial reports pointed to weather as the cause, but a court of inquiry was established to ascertain the exact cause.[131]
• On 19 October 2011, an Indian Border Security Force (BSF) Dhruv (VT-BSH) crashed in north-east India, resulting in the deaths of the three crew on board.[132] The cause of the crash was found to be pilot error due to spatial disorientation.[133]
• On 15 January 2012, a BSF Dhruv (VT-BSN) crashed on the runway at Raipur airport during a test flight; there were no deaths but all five of the crew on board were injured.[134]Investigation by DGCA has concluded that the crash was caused by pilot error.[135] Inadequacies in training of flight crew had been identified.
• On 5 April 2012, a Dhruv was heavily damaged by Maoists who fired upon the helicopter [136]
• On 13 May 2013, a Dhruv crashed in Siachen injuring the pilot and co-pilot [137]
• On 19 December 2013, a Dhruv armed with weapons made an emergency landing in Karnataka.[138]
• On 22 February 2014, an Ecuadorian Air Force Dhruv often used as a presidential transport crashed in the Chimborazo region. The pilot Captain Fabian Pazos Narvaez survived, but three military officials were killed. The incident is under investigation.[139][140]
• On 25 July 2014, an Indian Air Force Dhruv crashed near Sitapur in Uttar Pradesh, India. All seven on board were killed. It had been tracked from the ATC of a Delhi air force station until contact with the aircraft was suddenly lost. A mayday call from the pilots appeared to highlight a mechanical failure as the cause. The IAF ordered a court of inquiry to establish the cause of the crash.[141]
• On 13 January 2015, an Ecuadorian Air Force Dhruv crashed injuring 2 crew members [142]
• On 28 January 2015, an Ecuadorian Air Force Dhruv crashed injuring 4 crew members [142]
• On 11 February 2015, an Indian Army Dhruv crashed in Jammu&Kashmir, killing 2 crew members.[143]
• On 4 July 2017 and Indian Air Force Dhruv crashed in Arunachal Prasesh killing all 4 crew members onboard [144]
• On 5 September 2017 several Indian Army (IA) personnel, including two generals, survived with only minor injuries from the crash in India’s Himalayan region of Ladakh.[145]

 

[abingdonboy]

Dhruv track record is not that world class but may be average at best.

• In November 2005, a Dhruv crash-landed in Andhra Pradesh, causing the entire fleet to be grounded; the subsequent probe found a fault with the helicopter's tail rotor blades, which has since been corrected.[23][24]
• On 2 February 2007, during rehearsals prior to Aero India, a HAL Dhruv of the Sarang helicopter display team of the Indian Air Forcecrashed, killing co-pilot Squadron Leader Priye Sharma and injuring the pilot Wing Commander Vikas Jetley.[126] After being in a coma for almost four years, Vikas Jetley died in January 2011.[127] The helicopter team continued to perform in the air show.[128]
• In October 2009, an Ecuadorian Air Force Dhruv flew into the ground near Quito while attempting formation flight with two other helicopters. The remaining six aircraft were grounded during the investigation, which later concluded pilot error to be the cause.[129]
• In February 2010, an Indian Air Force Dhruv was forced to make a crash landing after suffering a loss of power while rehearsing for the "Vayu Shakti" air show; both pilots survived.[23]
• On 14 December 2010, a Dhruv crashed in Jammu injuring all 9 personnel on board.[130]
• On 22 December 2010, a Dhruv crashed in Leh injuring both pilots.[130]
• On 21 April 2011, four army personnel were killed when a Dhruv crashed in north Sikkim. Initial reports pointed to weather as the cause, but a court of inquiry was established to ascertain the exact cause.[131]
• On 19 October 2011, an Indian Border Security Force (BSF) Dhruv (VT-BSH) crashed in north-east India, resulting in the deaths of the three crew on board.[132] The cause of the crash was found to be pilot error due to spatial disorientation.[133]
• On 15 January 2012, a BSF Dhruv (VT-BSN) crashed on the runway at Raipur airport during a test flight; there were no deaths but all five of the crew on board were injured.[134]Investigation by DGCA has concluded that the crash was caused by pilot error.[135] Inadequacies in training of flight crew had been identified.
• On 5 April 2012, a Dhruv was heavily damaged by Maoists who fired upon the helicopter [136]
• On 13 May 2013, a Dhruv crashed in Siachen injuring the pilot and co-pilot [137]
• On 19 December 2013, a Dhruv armed with weapons made an emergency landing in Karnataka.[138]
• On 22 February 2014, an Ecuadorian Air Force Dhruv often used as a presidential transport crashed in the Chimborazo region. The pilot Captain Fabian Pazos Narvaez survived, but three military officials were killed. The incident is under investigation.[139][140]
• On 25 July 2014, an Indian Air Force Dhruv crashed near Sitapur in Uttar Pradesh, India. All seven on board were killed. It had been tracked from the ATC of a Delhi air force station until contact with the aircraft was suddenly lost. A mayday call from the pilots appeared to highlight a mechanical failure as the cause. The IAF ordered a court of inquiry to establish the cause of the crash.[141]
• On 13 January 2015, an Ecuadorian Air Force Dhruv crashed injuring 2 crew members [142]
• On 28 January 2015, an Ecuadorian Air Force Dhruv crashed injuring 4 crew members [142]
• On 11 February 2015, an Indian Army Dhruv crashed in Jammu&Kashmir, killing 2 crew members.[143]
• On 4 July 2017 and Indian Air Force Dhruv crashed in Arunachal Prasesh killing all 4 crew members onboard [144]
• On 5 September 2017 several Indian Army (IA) personnel, including two generals, survived with only minor injuries from the crash in India’s Himalayan region of Ladakh.[145]

What do you think this proves? 100s in service, crashes happen. It’s proven intself in every theatre, in every mission and even when it does crash the results are often far more favourable for the occupants than had it been any other chopper

 

[aarav]

Total misreading of history.

Ecuador crashes EVERYTHING they fly, look it up. They trusted the ALH to be the transport for their PRESIDENT, it’s a world class machine. What can HAL do about their atrocious standards? Look at the air show crash, 100% pilot error but even in that dramatic crash the pilots both WALKED away almost scratch free. Don’t try and tell me these aren’t first rate machines.

ALH has always shown itself to be utterly world class and has done everything that has ever been asked of it and much more.

Dhruv mk4 can be assumed to be world class but these spate of mishaps before aero India is not good also HAL hasn't been able to get the European certification it said it would get for the civilian version diminishing the export prospects.

 

[G10]

Compare it with others AW 139 one of them.

 

[FactsPlease]

Again, some people at this forum always confuse "maintenance" issue (in charge by HAL) with "how good" a platform is, and can't wait to start defending ALH.

In those records, some are caused by hostile fire. It's neither maintenance nor quality to be blamed - though deeper look can reveal some survive capability field, which R&D and force arms should be eager to do so if they are truly expertise.

@aarav is good to indicate this certificate matter.

 

[Narasimh]

HAL is most successful with its helicopter division with Chetak and cheetahs also and Dhruv is a great product. So blaming HAL for every snag is quite crass and so is blaming the IAF as if IAF wants to sabotage HAL.
Truth lies somewhere in between. HAL does need to work on quality control and IAF needs to engage better with HAL. HAL management board must have retd. IAF people at the helm.

 

[Craigs]

I am sorry. That's a juvenile statement .

How many was due to a design flaw in the tail rotor ( Dhruv) .

How many were due to pilot error / airframe fatigue / second hand OEM parts from ex soviet states / bird hits etc

You can't lay that all at HALs feet .

If HAL is the manufacturer then it is responsible for customer training, support, documentation etc. Bird hits - were any of the 16 incidents due to bird hits?

 

[kamaal]

Can you provide proof / links of these crashes while under HAL care ?

And there were no crashes of Dhruv everymonth. That's pure bs.

100% of the 16 incidents were with operators /end users . Zero in HAL care.
What are you talking about ?

What the hell is "HAL's care" ? Are the products supposed to be used under the factory of its manufacturer ?

I said go through timeline of ALH to see the number of crashes in its early days, and also go to the wikipedia to see the number of Migs built by HAL, crashed since its inception in IAF.

 

[kamaal]

Total misreading of history.

Ecuador crashes EVERYTHING they fly, look it up. They trusted the ALH to be the transport for their PRESIDENT, it’s a world class machine. What can HAL do about their atrocious standards? Look at the air show crash, 100% pilot error but even in that dramatic crash the pilots both WALKED away almost scratch free. Don’t try and tell me these aren’t first rate machines.

ALH has always shown itself to be utterly world class and has done everything that has ever been asked of it and much more.

ALH MK3 can be seen as world class but MK2 and initial version were nowhere close to world-class. IAF pilots always complained about the lack of altitude it achieved and vibration in the cabin. MK3 did offered better solution to IAF/IA.

As far as Ecuador is concerned, they may be known for crashing aeroplanes but HAL's response to the crisis was even worst, the management could have handled the situation more professionally.

 

[G10]

What are improvements in mk3 as compared to mk 2 and mk1

 

[Enquirer]

Naval Utility Helicopter with folding tail boom!

 

[abingdonboy]

Naval Utility Helicopter with folding tail boom!

So why is Navy pursuing this pointless NUH contest? This is a real defence scam. ALH is superior to every proposed foreign offer.

If NUH is allowed to go to foreign company I will actually pull my hair out, first rifles and now this. Is this govt trying to entirely kill
Off indigenous industry?

 

[binayak95]

So why is Navy pursuing this pointless NUH contest? This is a real defence scam. ALH is superior to every proposed foreign offer.

If NUH is allowed to go to foreign company I will actually pull my hair out, first rifles and now this. Is this govt trying to entirely kill
Off indigenous industry?

because the HAL NUH is a Prototype.

 

[abingdonboy]

because the HAL NUH is a Prototype.

No it isn’t. It has existed for years, these minor additions will take months to certify vs years of endless talks and trails fro foreign helos.

 

[binayak95]

No it isn’t. It has existed for years, these minor additions will take months to certify vs years of endless talks and trails fro foreign helos.

Sell that to someone who doesnt know the story.

Dhruv MkIV WSI was extremely good. IN was particularly impressed with its optronics that allowed for target identification at 2 km ranges.

IN asked HAL to incorporate folding rotor blades so that these could operate from frigates and destroyers.

HAL created a system that
a. weighs 200kg
b. hydraulic system is leaky and nightmare to maintain
c. doesnt work half the time.

Result : Dhruvs are restricted to carrier ops and SAR.

 

[abingdonboy]

Sell that to someone who doesnt know the story.

Dhruv MkIV WSI was extremely good. IN was particularly impressed with its optronics that allowed for target identification at 2 km ranges.

IN asked HAL to incorporate folding rotor blades so that these could operate from frigates and destroyers.

HAL created a system that
a. weighs 200kg
b. hydraulic system is leaky and nightmare to maintain
c. doesnt work half the time.

Result : Dhruvs are restricted to carrier ops and SAR.

This is new. HAL never demonstrated fully automatic folding tail boom to IN, I’m sure IN will find some reason to dismiss it again even though it is by far the most capable NUH on offer to them.