WolfPack86
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Already F-18 Super Hornet parts are made in India by HAL.
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SH18 is out.Boeing and HAL discuss building F/A-18 Super Hornets in India
The Boeing Company (hereafter Boeing), which is a vying strongly to supply the Indian Navy with 57 “multi-role carrier borne fighters” (MRCBF), has entered talks with Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) to explore the co-manufacture of its F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fighter in India, say credible sources in the defence ministry. Along with HAL, Boeing also intends to involve the Mahindra Group in building Super Hornets in India.
Boeing and HAL have already held exploratory discussions in Bengaluru in September and are scheduled to meet on Friday in Bengaluru for another round of talks. They will also finalise a “non-disclosure agreement” that binds all sides to keep their negotiations confidential.
Contacted for comments, a Boeing spokesperson responded: “HAL has been a key partner of Boeing for over two decades and today manufactures components for our commercial and defense platforms, including for the F/A-18 Super Hornet. We are continually exploring ways to expand that relationship. Needless to say, we cannot comment on specific discussions with our partners.”
The defence ministry and Mahindras did not respond to requests for comments. Boeing seeks to leverage HAL’s long experience in licence-producing aircraft in India, most recently the Hawk trainer, and Jaguar and Sukhoi-30MKI fighters; and to present the defence ministry with a clear plan for co-producing the Super Hornet in India with a high indigenous content.
This would provide the US aerospace giant valuable advantage over rival vendors who partner private sector firms that are novices in aerospace manufacture.
Furthermore, Boeing’s partnership with HAL — which already has an airfield and manufacturing hangars in Bengaluru — would significantly reduce the price of each Super Hornet. In contrast, a vendor that partners a private Indian firm would need to factor aerospace infrastructure into its pricing. Boeing has already expressed public reservations about the private sector’s inexperience in aerospace. As Business Standard reported (September 8, Boeing flags inexperience of private sector ‘strategic partners’) Boeing India chief, Pratyush Kumar, stated in New Delhi that the Indian private sector is not yet capable of manufacturing complex military aircraft under transfer of technology (ToT).
Urging India to co-opt public and private enterprise, Kumar said he “could not find a single example [of successfully building an aircraft under ToT] where it was just the brand new private enterprise with limited aerospace experience. Look at Turkey, look at Japan, look at Brazil, look at multiple countries. In all cases there is a fine balancing act of co-opting the capabilities of both public and private enterprise.” Now Boeing is doing exactly that, by seeking to co-opt HAL and the Mahindra Group into co-producing Super Hornets.
Boeing’s public-private strategy contrasts with the approach being followed by Lockheed Martin and Saab in a separate procurement of 114 single-engine fighters, which is expected to gather momentum shortly. Since the defence ministry requires the single-engine fighters to be built in India under the “strategic partner” (SP) policy, Lockheed Martin and Saab have both partnered private sector firms – Tata Advanced Systems Ltd (TASL) and the Adani Group respectively – to build in India. In contrast, the “request for information” (RFI) for the MRCBF acquisition, which the navy issued in January, predates the SP Policy that was promulgated only in June. Unlike Lockheed Martin and Saab in the single-engine fighter procurement, Boeing is not restricted to partnering only a private sector company.
The RFI for the MRCBF specifies: “GoI (Government of India) is desirous of license production of the aircraft after acquiring ToT in the case (sic).” While this appears to place the procurement in the “Buy and Make” category, the “request for proposals” (RFP) is likely to clarify this issue. Industry experts say the RFP might conceivably shift the acquisition into the SP category. The Super Hornet, which is the US Navy’s main carrier borne fighter, is likely to face competition in India’s MRCBF tender from French company Dassault’s Rafale-M fighter; Swedish company Saab’s Gripen Maritime, and the Russian MiG-29K/KUB that already flies off the navy’s lone carrier, INS Vikramaditya.
The India Navy has already bought 45 MiG-29K/KUB fighters from Russia to equip its current aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya, and the second aircraft carrier, the indigenously built INS Vikrant, which is expected in service by 2021. A new, more capable MRCBF was envisaged for the second indigenous carrier, INS Vishal, which is expected in service by 2030 or so. However, unacceptably low serviceability rates of the MiG-29K/KUB are making the MRCBF vital for the navy in a much shorter time frame. Furthermore, Boeing is looking at the supply of “Made in India” fighters to the Indian Air Force (IAF) too, beyond the supply of 57 Super Hornets to the navy.
The IAF, which is down to 32 squadrons of fighters against its requirement of 42 squadrons, had hoped to procure six-to-nine squadrons of medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) over the last decade. The Rafale was eventually selected, but then only two squadrons were procured, leaving a void that Boeing hopes to fill by establishing a Super Hornet manufacturing line in India.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/B...building-F/A-18-Super-Hornets-in-India-444566
bolts?Already F-18 Super Hornet parts are made in India by HAL.
Rafale will be procured for Indian Air force in large numbers. While F-18 advanced super hornet is for Indian Navy. By procuring F-18 advanced super hornet it will not affect the development of Tejas. We need to satisfy US as well as HAL. Already Indian opposition up in arms for side lining HAL . Indian govt fire fighting Indian opposition. Dassult should have gone along with HAL we could have avoided needless counterversey. Rafale M fighter does'nt have folded wings that will be disadvantage for Dassult. Not only that US will put condition they will give Emals technology to India only if we procure F-18 advanced super hornet.SH18 is out.
Boeing make a deal with the last indian company, unfortunately the worst one : HAL. Indian govt will make pressure on HAL to end Tejas, before going on another program.
And the SH18, except its very good radar, is old tech. The handling capacity are average. Too heavy.
Is France ready to transfer 100 percent of technology transfer to India including making engines, radar and other important systems of Rafale that can be made in India?.bolts?
nuts ?
100% I don't know. But without a doubt far more than US. And specially with the "America first" of Trump.Is France ready to transfer 100 percent of technology transfer to India including making engines, radar and other important systems of Rafale that can be made in India?.
100% correct!Rafale will be procured for Indian Air force in large numbers. While F-18 advanced super hornet is for Indian Navy. By procuring F-18 advanced super hornet it will not affect the development of Tejas. We need to satisfy US as well as HAL. Already Indian opposition up in arms for side lining HAL . Indian govt fire fighting Indian opposition. Dassult should have gone along with HAL we could have avoided needless counterversey. Rafale M fighter does'nt have folded wings that will be disadvantage for Dassult. Not only that US will put condition they will give Emals technology to India only if we procure F-18 advanced super hornet.
Instead of selecting a decade old F-16 fighter it is better to select F-18 advanced super hornet for Indian Navy. It will also help HAL to regain lost contract in MMRCA. Now HAL is working fast against time to build Tejas. Now HAL is doing good job in building Tejas recently a sp 7 Tejas had maiden flight. If all things goes well we will have 11 Tejas in this financial year it self.100% correct!
- we need it to get EMALS
- it seems to fit our carriers
- it offers a licence production deal for HAL
- we could gain a lot from Boeing as a company as well as the fighter with common techs for AMCA
- it is cost-effective and since the government plans budget restrictions for the navy, that's a big plus
- if we need to please the US with a political deal, F18 Block 3 are clearly the better choice than F16s
Which makes it the all around choice for us.
http://www.indiastrategic.in/2017/12/13/fa-18-advanced-super-hornet-best-choice-for-india/F/A-18 Advanced Super Hornet Best Choice for India
an exclusive tête-à-tête with India Strategic Mr Gene Cunningham, Vice President, Global Sales, Boeing Defense, Space & Security highlights the enhanced features of F/A-18 Advanced Super Hornet Block-III and how it fits the bill for the Indian Armed Forces to meet the security challenges well into the 21st century.
Q. How is the Super Hornet geared to address the evolving needs of the Indian armed forces?
A. The Super Hornet is a platform that is continuously evolving to outpace future threats. Every two years Boeing and its industry partners along with the US Navy work on delivering new capabilities to the fighter. Critical mission systems such as the radar, mission computers and sensors continue to evolve to match up to the mission profiles of the future.
To address the capabilities needed in the air wing as early as the 2020s, Boeing has also developed the Block III Super Hornet to complement existing and future air wing capabilities. Block III is the same aircraft as Advanced Super Hornet. The Advanced F/A-18E/F Super Hornet’s multi-mission capabilities include battle-space situational awareness, counter stealth targeting, greater range and increased acceleration, improved survivability and reduced signature and room for growth.
The Block III Super Hornet will come online at the same time as the F-35. In the 2020s, three Super Hornet squadrons and one F-35 squadron may form the airwing of carrier fleets. Currently, in the US Navy three out of four, and in most cases all four squadrons based off aircraft carriers, are Super Hornet squadrons.
These advanced capabilities can be both built into new aircraft and incorporated into existing aircraft, allowing maximum ability to field these capabilities quickly and affordable. Block III Super Hornet is built from the same airframe as Block II, providing low risk development and maintaining the lowest operating costs of any US tactical fighter. While Boeing demonstrated advanced Super Hornet capabilities in flight in 2013, the package of upgrades has evolved to best complement F-35, EA-18G and E-2D as they will be operating together in the air wing well into the 2040s.
Q. What are the key differentiating features of the Block III Super Hornet vis-à-vis the Block II?
A. Key features of Block III Super Hornet include enhanced network capability, longer range with low-drag, stealthy conformal fuel tanks, long-range detection with Infrared Search & Track, enhanced situational awareness with a new Advanced Cockpit System, improved signature with low observable next generation radar cross section for increased survivability and 9,000+ hour life for reduced life cycle costs by incorporating design changes into production aircraft based on lessons learnt from the Service Life Analysis Programme.
A significant design evolution is the addition of Conformal Fuel Tanks. Mounted on the shoulder of the Block III, conformal fuel tanks extend the range of the Block III by 100 nautical miles which is significantly larger range when compared to the Block II. Conformal Fuel Tanks also free up the space occupied by a centerline drop-tank. This means that the Air Force and the Navy have an additional hard-point to carry more air-to-air or air-to-ground weapons.
Modern and next-generation aircraft have a large amount of data available through their sensors. The Super Hornet Block III comes equipped with Distributing Targeting Processor Network (DTP-N) and Tactical Targeting Network Technology (TTNT). These are basically a computer and a big data platform that work together to aid in even more efficient movement and management of data within assets.
The Advanced Cockpit System is a next-generation use interface, which simplifies the interpretation and projection of a large quantity of information for the aircrew – both in the front and rear cockpit – making it easy to interface and manage an information network.
The Block IIIs sensors along with the APG-79 AESA Radar coupled to DTP-N and TTNT systems plots information on the Advances Cockpit System making it easy for aircrews to view and manage information. Even though the Super Hornet Block II is a stealth aircraft, Boeing has made a few signature improvements to reduce the Radar Cross Section (RCS) of the Block III to make it even stealthier.
Q. What is the cost and operations advantage that the Super Hornet brings to the table?
A. The F/A-18 Super Hornet not only has a low acquisition cost, but it costs less per flight hour to operate than any other tactical aircraft in US forces inventory. Part of its affordability is because the Super Hornet is designed to need far less maintenance; this translates into high mission availability. Ease of maintenance (supportability) results in lower maintenance man-hours per flight hour.
Plus, the Super Hornet does not require any scheduled depot-level maintenance and the engine does not require any scheduled maintenance between overhauls.
This low cost of operation, low maintenance requirements and twin-engine based survivability allow the Super Hornet to fly to and back from harsh environments.
Q. Can you give us an update on the progress of your response to the Indian Navy RFI on fighters?
A. We have responded to the Indian Navy’s RFI requirement and look forward to having discussions with the Indian Navy on their fighter requirement. The F/A-18 Super Hornet is the world’s preeminent carrier-capable multi-role aircraft. It is a combat proven, supersonic fighter jet with a defined US Navy flight plan to outpace threats into the 2040s.
Q. What makes the F/A-18 Super Hornet the best fit for the Navy’s fighter requirement?
A. The F/A-18 is the most modern and capable aircraft on the US Navy’s carrier decks today. In fact, the Block II Super Hornet reached initial operating capability in 2007. The F/A-18 Super Hornet was designed from day one for carrier operations and is the world’s preeminent carrier capable aircraft. It is a combat proven, supersonic, all weather multirole fighter jet with a defined US Navy flight plan to outpace threats into the 2040s.
Q. What are your plans for manufacturing the F/A-18 Super Hornet under the Make in India initiative?
A. Boeing’s proposed ‘Make in India’ plans for the Super Hornet are not about moving a production line but rather building an entirely new and state-of-the-art production facility that can be utilised for other programmes like India’s Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programme.
Boeing is prepared to bring its global scale and supply chain, its best-in-industry precision manufacturing processes, as well as the company’s unrivaled experience designing and optimising aerospace production facilities to bear in both expanding India’s aerospace ecosystem and helping realise the Make in India vision. The approach addresses the infrastructure, personnel training, and operational tools and techniques required to producing a next-gen fighter aircraft right here in India.
Boeing will work closely with India industry to ensure they have the very latest technologies, applying lessons learned from the current Super Hornet production line. The programme envisages transitioning airframe and subsystem manufacture to Indian industry in a deliberate way, representing extraordinary opportunity for technology insertion and growth within India’s aerospace industry.
Boeing will partner with Indian industry to develop the right capabilities as efficiently and cost effectively as possible to integrate these suppliers into the global supply chain. Boeing and its current industry partners are having robust discussions with suppliers in India about building Super Hornets.
Q. Are the F/A-18 Super Hornets compatible with the Indian Navy’s aircraft carriers? Or would they need any modifications to operate off them?
A. The Super Hornets are fully compatible with the Indian Navy’s aircraft carriers. Extensive simulation has shown that the Super Hornet is capable of conducting STOBAR operations with a meaningful weapons and fuel load.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/08/supe...to-double-as-trump-gives-program-a-boost.html...The Super Hornet currently costs between $70 million and $75 million, according to Boeing. An advanced version will add $3 million to that price tag...
No Rafale M has no folding wings and if we wanted it, we have to pay for the development. The current plan of Dassault is, to remove the wingtip missiles as well as the wingtip pylons, every time a Rafale needs to be parked at the deck, the hangar or even to place it on the lift, which is ridiculous in terms of operations and practicality.Is there is folded wings for Rafale M fighter do India need to pay for modification for Rafale M fighter?. Is there is semi stealth version for F-18 advanced super hornet. Mr Sancho.
Which fighter jet will Indian Navy will choose F-18 advanced super hornet or rafale. Considering rafale does'nt have folded wings these will disadvantages for rafale and also we need to pay for rafale modification. How many percentage of F-18 super hornet parts are made by HAL. Indian Navy require 57 fighters is there is any scope to number will go up to 100 fighters.No Rafale M has no folding wings and if we wanted it, we have to pay for the development. The current plan of Dassault is, to remove the wingtip missiles as well as the wingtip pylons, every time a Rafale needs to be parked at the deck, the hangar or even to place it on the lift, which is ridiculous in terms of operations and practicality.
The F18 SH roadmap (optional upgrades) include a weapon pod, which was flight tested by Boeing. However, since the USN will have the F35 anyway, the aim for them was interoperability with a stealth fighter, rather than adding stealth to the F18. If India would require that capability, we would have to fund it, or maybe get the development as part of an offset deal.
The US funded:
- Conformal fuel tanks
- Next generation cockpit
- "external" IRST (in centerline fuel tank)
For us, the EW upgrades and possibly a joint development of the enhanced performancr engine upgrade, could have more priority and prospect for commonality:
We don't know which they will chose, they might end up with more Migs as well (cheapest option, most suitable in size and take off performance, high indigenous content), who knows.Which fighter jet will Indian Navy will choose F-18 advanced super hornet or rafale. Considering rafale does'nt have folded wings these will disadvantages for rafale and also we need to pay for rafale modification. How many percentage of F-18 super hornet parts are made by HAL. Indian Navy require 57 fighters is there is any scope to number will go up to 100 fighters.
Following chines model of Shenyang - J 15 we should evaluate our option of HAL - 29 K.We don't know which they will chose, they might end up with more Migs as well (cheapest option, most suitable in size and take off performance, high indigenous content), who knows.
We only have publicly available infos and statements available to get to conclusions.
So far only limited numbers of F18 parts were produced at HAL, as part of offset deals of P8 for example. That would increase with an order and even more so with a production / assembly line.
The scope depends on additional orders for IAC2, or my preference choice, if we would divert the 45 x Mig 29Ks to IAF instead, to make up squadron numbers.
IAF knows Migs, has logistics and training available and these 45 are already in India and could be inducted even before the first Rafale squad is available.
IN then could order more F18 Block 3 from HAL lines, win win for both forces!
The Chinese model is based on a Chinese copy of a Su33, so they can do what they want with it, while we have to ask Russia for permission first.Following chines model of Shenyang - J 15 we should evaluate our option of HAL - 29 K.
Mig 29-K airframe (royalty paid) with some modification to suit us + Kaveri Engine + Uttam + Our flight control com + MFD's + + +
We may be able to create some thing tailor made for us in quick time and within our budget & gain exp for AMCA Naval
During MMRCA trials Indian Air Force officials admitted that F-18 advanced super hornet aesa radar and other electronic system are far more superior than other aircrafts. Only thing that lacked its performance and engines did'nt have higher thrust.The Chinese model is based on a Chinese copy of a Su33, so they can do what they want with it, while we have to ask Russia for permission first.
I suggested customizing Mig 29K/35 with Uttam and Kaveri for a long time (although many Indians prefer foreign fighters instead), since that would be the only platform that offers that high possibility for Indian content. However, it doesn't take away the fact that it's design is based on a very old base, or that the K already is showing issues caused by carrier landings. It's evident that the F18 and Rafale airframes will give us less problems for the naval use over the coming decades, which translates into less maintenance and higher availability. But yes, we definitely should try to get Indian radar and engines on Mig 29Ks.
During MMRCA, the advanced F18 was not available and Boeing just offered the road map options including the GE414 EPE to counter the shortfalls. Besides thrust, the biggest problem is EW, where the US teen fighters are far behind European counterparts. That's why Boeing offers IR MAWS and LWR as an option.During MMRCA trials Indian Air Force officials admitted that F-18 advanced super hornet aesa radar and other electronic system are far more superior than other aircrafts. Only thing that lacked its performance and engines did'nt have higher thrust.