Crisis in Tibet - Opression and Human rights violations by China

[Ray]

No big secret here. Take a look around where there are bases, North West China is the ONLY place where you can play to your heart's content without disturbing too many people's sleep.

The exercise has been announced for sometime and it's aimed to solve several tactical and logistical issues brought on by the problems identified during the Schian Earthquakes.

One thing clearly not addressed is still the reliance on the civilian transportation network, especially rail. That was one of the short comings identified during the Earthquakes.

As for the originial point, I don't see it. For Tibet to be an issue, it would have to be a million man fight ... and neither side is interested.

Colonel,

As I have said to you many a time - don't underestimate the Chinese.

You may think they are mad, but they have a method in their madness.

As a Canadian, you have not noticed.

Bandung, Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai and then Hindi Chini bye bye with one swift kick on the posterior in 1962.

Forewarned is Forearmed!

Never again!!

Take them on and destroy their bubble.

All big talks of peace and all that but Southern Tibet and then the loan of ADB and then this exercise!!

Civilians can believe any junk given out, but the military?

 

[Ray]

I'll remind you that India's official stand on Tibet says that it is indeed a part of China.

Now, we already have considerable leverage in the form of the Dalai Lama. I think that is enough for negotiating purposes, without trying to actively foment trouble in that province, or attempting to capture Lhasa.

I do not disagree that the Indian official view is that Tibet is an autonomous region of China.

However, I do not also agree that India or even a part of it is a region of China!!

If they can foment insurgency in the NE, are you suggesting we take it lying down as a part of our fate?

I am well aware what the US and China are doing in those parts of India.

I refuse to be another Gandhi!

 

[Jeypore]

the exercises of PLA is to test the rapid action capacity of PLA.

it is the duty of paratroops called " armed police " to deal with domestic trouble like Uyghur thugs.
PLA's duty is to deal with threaten from foreign countries.

Mr. Badguy that is false, then why army had to be sent in to stop the latest riots. It was clearly out of control of the local police, and same happened with the tibeten riots also. So this is a clear picture of Hun's domination to curb any future riots to come and to show fast mobility of the army to curb it.

The other interesting aspect of 50,000 troop drill is coming within a month or two of the lastest riots. Where senario of movement distance is 1000-2000 kilometer depending upon one of each platoons. This is a great indicator of vast majority of China's armys are based on the eastern side and a quick movement to the western side. The fingers are clearly pointing towards the two trouble regions.

If this would have been geared for India, the training and movement would have been little different, based on the terrain between China and India. The fast movement would have incorporated some form of mountainous terrarin excersis also.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Civilians can believe any junk given out, but the military?

Sir,

I was not attempting to read the political message from these exercises ... and frankly, after a while, they sound too much comic books. It may very well be a case of crying wolf once too often but the cries of "self defence attacks" just hits on the nerves one times too many.

I was reading the military exercise as a military exercise, to see if they're addressing tactical problems that they have ignored for a very long time.

However, vis-a-vi Tibet, it is without a doubt that the 15ABC has enough stocks there to carry out a war but Sir, this is just the 15ABC. It would take weeks for the 38th and/or 39th Group Armies to reach Tibet.

And I can't see the 15ABC being anything more than a recce force. They don't have the stamina to last long against regular infantry, let alone an armoured force.

 

[Flint]

If they can foment insurgency in the NE, are you suggesting we take it lying down as a part of our fate?

But that's what I'm trying to explain to you.

The Dalai Lama, who would be nothing if it wasn't for the generous help that India has given him, is already a massive headache for China.

If we wanted to "take it lying down", we would have handed him over to China long time ago.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Mr. Badguy that is false, then why army had to be sent in to stop the latest riots.

Not the Army but the China Armed Police Force, though it should be noted it is not Police as in the traditional Western sense but a National Guard with police powers more aimed at internal matters than force projection beyond Chinese borders.

They're essentially paramilitary forces with their own APCs and light artillery but no tanks.

Yes, they can be used for military purposes if so desired but the PLA loathed to include them in any exercise.

 

[Ray]

Sir,

I was not attempting to read the political message from these exercises ... and frankly, after a while, they sound too much comic books. It may very well be a case of crying wolf once too often but the cries of "self defence attacks" just hits on the nerves one times too many.

I was reading the military exercise as a military exercise, to see if they're addressing tactical problems that they have ignored for a very long time.

However, vis-a-vi Tibet, it is without a doubt that the 15ABC has enough stocks there to carry out a war but Sir, this is just the 15ABC. It would take weeks for the 38th and/or 39th Group Armies to reach Tibet.

And I can't see the 15ABC being anything more than a recce force. They don't have the stamina to last long against regular infantry, let alone an armoured force.

Colonel,

I have read your and Andy's comments on the Chinese Airborne Corps and that has got me thinking.

I saw the AB Corps in action on TV.

Chinese are subtle.

They always send 'hidden' messages!!

The problem is that we think the Chinese are clowns. They are not!

 

[advaita]

So India should extract sweet revenge for 1962? I'm sorry but I consider that a really, really dumb move.



I"m not sure what you mean by "interefere in the NE", but I'm assuming that you are referring to reports that China is helping NE insurgents.

Well here's my answer: The Capital of the Government of Tibet in exile, is located at Dharamsala, Himachal Pradesh.

Enough said.

That Uighur lady is in US does that mean US is interfering in China. Both the Uighur lady and Dalai Lama have same status (asylum in the face of massive state oppression).
I admit that India has no locus standi in Xinjiang and Tibet, these were not our places. Only people that have locus standi there are Uighurs and Tibetans and they are either not in a position to do anything or just too confused. But remember a world that can take the loss of Tibet to Chinese can sell out anything if it gets them out of the way of chinese even of course India. The covert actions if any taken by India relating to Tibet were actuated by Chinese interference in these areas. These areas dont belong to China either.

Indians are no position to start a war even for AC, at the moment, for the simple reason that coventional superiority is with Chipak combine (in my view they really are one). Though the title of the thread is confusing but we should remember China calls Tawang, by the name of South Tibet and hence there claim to claim a locus standi is artificially created. One at a time we could have taken any front, Chipaks conventional superiority not withstanding. Respected Admirals views notwithstanding. Even the covert war can be handled, infact it can be used to our own benefit (every crisis presents an opportunity) But Two front war is a different ball game. To avoid loosing like 62 we should strengthen our non-conventional abilities and actually use Democracy to our advantage (Navy Chief i respectfully submit may not have the ideas about this).

In fact we should avoid war at the moment and bolster our defence structure. Navy chief has propogated only his own view and seems like most India do agree to this view. But then if future could be predicted by past or even the present then we should have put a librarian on the Navy chiefs position, with all due respect.

 

[Ray]

But that's what I'm trying to explain to you.

The Dalai Lama, who would be nothing if it wasn't for the generous help that India has given him, is already a massive headache for China.

If we wanted to "take it lying down", we would have handed him over to China long time ago.

The Dalai Lama is not something because of India. He is something because of the western world.

So let us not get smug!

The Khampa rebels are no Indian idea, it is that of the US.

So, lets get real!

 

[Flint]

Never mind Brigadier sahib. Arguing with you is like negotiating a minefield.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

I have read your and Andy's comments on the Chinese Airborne Corps and that has got me thinking.

I saw the AB Corps in action on TV.

Chinese are subtle.

They always send 'hidden' messages!!

The problem is that we think the Chinese are clowns. They are not!

No, Sir, I do not think they are clowns but I'm seeing them making mistakes that we have made decades before.

Some observations:

1) 15ABC's company level jump actions are commanded by a LCol which would indicate that Majs and below don't even attend command course.

2) The 15ABC is an Air Force formation, not the Army's and as such have not followed the Army's doctrinal developments ... and vice versa. The Army's 155 Light Mechanized Regiment is a case in point where their doing more Air Assault than Para.

3) I have absolutely no idea where the PLA stands as to regards between the regt-div-army model and the bn-bde-corps model and the bn-bde-group army model. They have done a lot of work as to regards the battalion battle group but at the same time, the 155 is a regiment, not a brigade, but a regiment.

At the very least here, a lot of career paths are going to crash into a wall while some would be rocketed skywards.

 

[Ray]

Never mind Brigadier sahib. Arguing with you is like negotiating a minefield.

Could be.

I read and worry, having faced it all in real life too!

I say - not again!

 

[F-14]

i total subcribe to Ray sir's comments here i think that its time that we Indians start pulling up our socks and start playing hard ball with the Chinies in the TAR pay them in their onw currency they play by history twisted history if i may add so why cant we give them a taste of their on solution and start claming Tibet on the basis of historical and cultural terms

but this said and done we also need to strengthen our defences in the NEFA sector currently we are lagging behind in dual use infrastracture in the area

but now the AP aka south Tibet problem has been inoperated by china in to its plans to contain India

so as ray sir suggested we should start hitting them where it hurts them the most

like Tibet, East Turkistan , the parcel Islands their Human rights etc

and if we can pull it of it will be grate

concurrently we should also try to brake their String of pearls and throw it on their face

but for all this to happen we should throw away our Ghandigiri and Nhearuvian bull craps and except whatever is suited for our national intrest

as vishnuguptan said

" both debt and the enemy should be finnished in full"

 

[india rock]

just wait the day that dalai dead forever,T PROBLEM will be no problem

 

[Jeypore]

just wait the day that dalai dead forever,T PROBLEM will be no problem

I have heard he is immortal!!

 

[Ray]

Colonel,

Oriental are not used to Command by Directives.

Auftragstaktik.


We are used to Befehlstaktik. Command as per plan.

 

[yang]

The Dalai Lama is not something because of India. He is something because of the western world.

So let us not get smug!

The Khampa rebels are no Indian idea, it is that of the US.

So, lets get real!

Sir ,just it.
You finally come to the point.:113:

 

[Ray]

just wait the day that dalai dead forever,T PROBLEM will be no problem

You better buy up the US for such serendipity!

 

[Ray]

Sir ,just it.
You finally come to the point.:113:

I have no illusions.

I am quite pragmatic!

 

[yang]

There is no doubt ,the existent dalai will die in the near future,but what we are worried about is US will support another dalai,soon.
How can we run ahead of US?