China Economy: News & Discussion

[Vijyes]

That is for the citizens to decide, not the Government.

So, citizens decide which handle is banned or which is fair policy on twitter? Are you being naive or sinister?

RT , Al Jazeera and CCTV are full blown propaganda weapons - none of which are banned in the West. It is for the people to decide which is what, not the Government

These websites except CCTV are operated by government who are in alliance with USA. Also, CCTV doesn't have a major foothold anywhere as it is considered openly as being state run. But FB, Twitter etc falsely claim neutrality and then backstab via bias. So, the comparison is unjust. If CCTV gets popular, it may also be treated like Huawei.

The role social media tools like Twitter played in Indian Lok Sabha election is phenomenal - to call out fake news, to put forward your viewpoints, to make a counterpoint immediately ....China has its equivalent of Twitter - Weibo - so you are okay with that I guess just because it is Chinese.

Phenomenal? WhatsApp played a major role but not other sites. Sites like twitter, FB etc have banned several pages & handles arbitrarily and have caused bias too. WhatsApp, however, has been neutral and direct P2P which prevented these moderation bias. Nevertheless, twitter is definitely biased. No second thought about this.

Huawei ban was long pending & justified- don't know why it took so long to fructify. I am in the telecom industry - know how Huawei operates.

You know how Huawei operates? Really? Jut being in telecom industry doesn't mean you know everything about all companies. The way foreign companies like Ericson operates is far worse than Huawei. Yet you see problem only in Huawei while giving free pass to others. It appears like a bias and an unfounded one at that.

 

[shankyz]

So, citizens decide which handle is banned or which is fair policy on twitter? Are you being naive or sinister?

These websites except CCTV are operated by government who are in alliance with USA. Also, CCTV doesn't have a major foothold anywhere as it is considered openly as being state run. But FB, Twitter etc falsely claim neutrality and then backstab via bias. So, the comparison is unjust. If CCTV gets popular, it may also be treated like Huawei.


Phenomenal? WhatsApp played a major role but not other sites. Sites like twitter, FB etc have banned several pages & handles arbitrarily and have caused bias too. WhatsApp, however, has been neutral and direct P2P which prevented these moderation bias. Nevertheless, twitter is definitely biased. No second thought about this.

You know how Huawei operates? Really? Jut being in telecom industry doesn't mean you know everything about all companies. The way foreign companies like Ericson operates is far worse than Huawei. Yet you see problem only in Huawei while giving free pass to others. It appears like a bias and an unfounded one at that.

Since when was Russian was in alliance with US ?

They are virtually fighting each other in Ukraine and Syria, with US sanctions. Open up and see RT for the amount of propaganda they dish out.

Twitter CEO has publicly admitted that they have a leftist bias when it comes to moderation. Indian Govt. had a meeting with all SM heads prior to LS Elections and that has resulted in huge moderation of fake handles , including ISPR ones posing as pro-Congress handles , Congress Whatsapp group with Pak members in them - still lot needs to be done. But according to you, let's ban them straightway.

Data Localisation will be done in coming time for almost all tech companies in India.

Unless and until a company committed a crime, there is no logic banning them.

Huawei has been involved in lots of criminal & espionage activity, having been caught red handed multiple times. Ericsson & Nokia come nowhere close to Huawei & ZTE when it comes to such activities - there is where these Chinese companies have earned their notoriety.

For e.g. ZTE tried to act smart by bypassing UN Sanctions and sell equipment to Iran - US caught it by its balls and sanctioned them. Only desperate begging by CCP saved its ass last year.

The more China turns this into a Huawei vs West battle, the more distrust of Huawei will grow. Already operators, retailers & vendors are taking action against Huawei. Just wait and watch.

 

[Armand2REP]

These websites except CCTV are operated by government who are in alliance with USA. Also, CCTV doesn't have a major foothold anywhere as it is considered openly as being state run. But FB, Twitter etc falsely claim neutrality and then backstab via bias. So, the comparison is unjust. If CCTV gets popular, it may also be treated like Huawei

CCTV only broadcasts in China now, the international version is called CGTN since 2016. They rebranded it to try to fool people into thinking it was some independent network.

 

[Vijyes]

Since when was Russian was in alliance with US

Since when did Russia aggressively campaign in English media? It jut has RT and few other sites as a portal in english world but has no large market. So, where is the need yo restrict?

Twitter CEO has publicly admitted that they have a leftist bias when it comes to moderation. Indian Govt. had a meeting with all SM heads prior to LS Elections and that has resulted in huge moderation of fake handles , including ISPR ones posing as pro-Congress handles , Congress Whatsapp group with Pak members in them - still lot needs to be done. But according to you, let's ban them straightway.

India doesn't have an alternative and hence not prudent to ban after twitter becoming so popular. Nevertheless, considering that Twitter has shown immense bias, it would have been better yo ban it if there was an alternative. Chinese were simply more prudent.

Saying that Twitter has taken measures is absurd as even now they have a major bias. If it has to be free,there has to be 0 bias. We can't bargain saying the bias must be reduced from 50% yo 20% etc. Zero means strictly zero bias must be there in any moderation of media site failing which it must be banned.

China had given lot of chances for google & other sites to comply but these companies refused and hence banned.

Huawei has been involved in lots of criminal & espionage activity, having been caught red handed multiple times. Ericsson & Nokia come nowhere close to Huawei & ZTE when it comes to such activities - there is where these Chinese

Really? Speaking nonsense to justify? Where has Huawei been caught stealing? There is just accusations and nothing else. Anyone can accuse anything on anyone.

For e.g. ZTE tried to act smart by bypassing UN Sanctions and sell equipment to Iran - US caught it by its balls and sanctioned them. Only desperate begging by CCP saved its ass last year.

Yeah, that is some big crime? It is not that China has any problem with Iran. Why should China bow down to USA sanctions? Now, USA did force ZTE to bow down but that is no crime or immoral activity by ZTE.

The more China turns this into a Huawei vs West battle, the more distrust of Huawei will grow. Already operators, retailers & vendors are taking action against Huawei

Let it be clear that west never trusted China and China never trusted West. Nothing changes unless anyone can give evidence. Only thing that can happen is that US will lose credibility due to arbitrary sanctions

 

[shankyz]

Since when did Russia aggressively campaign in English media? It jut has RT and few other sites as a portal in english world but has no large market. So, where is the need yo restrict?

India doesn't have an alternative and hence not prudent to ban after twitter becoming so popular. Nevertheless, considering that Twitter has shown immense bias, it would have been better yo ban it if there was an alternative. Chinese were simply more prudent.

Saying that Twitter has taken measures is absurd as even now they have a major bias. If it has to be free,there has to be 0 bias. We can't bargain saying the bias must be reduced from 50% yo 20% etc. Zero means strictly zero bias must be there in any moderation of media site failing which it must be banned.

China had given lot of chances for google & other sites to comply but these companies refused and hence banned.

Really? Speaking nonsense to justify? Where has Huawei been caught stealing? There is just accusations and nothing else. Anyone can accuse anything on anyone.

Yeah, that is some big crime? It is not that China has any problem with Iran. Why should China bow down to USA sanctions? Now, USA did force ZTE to bow down but that is no crime or immoral activity by ZTE.

Let it be clear that west never trusted China and China never trusted West. Nothing changes unless anyone can give evidence. Only thing that can happen is that US will lose credibility due to arbitrary sanctions

Seriously, no use of arguing with you.

No big crime ? If ZTE was not at fault, why it did not stand upto US and instead dished out $1.2 Billion in fines to Uncle Sam and CCP lobbied to get the ban lifted ?

As I said, Chinese firms' methods of doing business involves corporate espionage at its core. Chinese telecom manuals are blatant ripoffs of established vendors. They beg, borrow, steal left & right. Absolutely no ethics whatsoever. Whether it is IP theft, land & ocean grabbing - story remains the same.

So there is need for US to show the same level of ruthlessness these companies deserve. Chinese cry when they are shown their place and paid back in the same coin.

No more argument from my side.

Just one advice: Open your eyes and smell the coffee.

 

[Vijyes]

No big crime ? If ZTE was not at fault, why it did not stand upto US and instead dished out $1.2 Billion in fines to Uncle Sam and CCP lobbied to get the ban lifted ?

Since ZTE needed USA, there is no question of standing up. Capability matters and life is not fair. That is not a crime or immoral deed

 

[amoy]

No big crime ? If ZTE was not at fault, why it did not stand upto US and instead dished out $1.2 Billion in fines to Uncle Sam and CCP lobbied to get the ban lifted ?

As I said, Chinese firms' methods of doing business involves corporate espionage at its core. Chinese telecom manuals are blatant ripoffs of established vendors. They beg, borrow, steal left & right.

When u speak of ETHICS u shall check and respect FACTS above all, instead of being a loose cannon!

ZTE wasn't held for "espionage" or "rip-off" as u blabbered. ZTE was accused of following related to IRAN transactions ~~~

ZTE violated U.S. sanctions over a six-year period beginning in 2010 and obtained “hundreds of millions of dollars in contracts” from Iranian enterprises including the government.

——————————

Woefully YOUR ETHICS was the first victim in the cross-fire. Do live up to your own grandstanding.

 

[nimo_cn]

@ nimo_cn

Your logic is laughable.

Facebook, Netflix, Dropbox, Google ...even Wikipedia are dangerous to China's society because it brings in information beyond the iron curtain that you guys have meticulously set up over the last few decades. And this is what the CCP fears - information in the hands of the common citizen.

US has hit China where it hurts - it did a trial run with ZTE last year, which was saved by the CCP's relentless lobbying a.k.a. begging to Uncle Sam.

This time it is Huawei. And this will stay.

For too long, Huawei being a privately held company with opaque funding info, has undercut other competitors in bidding for telecom contracts. On top of that, Huawei employees are in the news always for the wrong reasons - stealing T-Mobile robot parts, espionage activity in Poland, massive bribery in Africa, UK National Security Cyber Centre scathing reports, Vodafone Italy backdoor presence....the list goes on and on.

Information flows through Facebooks is not in the hands of Chinese people, but in the hands of American government. You have to admit that Facebooks aside from being commercial companies, are also powerful tools for collecting and distributing information, if American government wishes, Facebooks like any other American companies, will be involved in their secret agendas, as it has been confirmed that Facebook and Twitter played important roles in the Arab spring movement, and most recently FedEx detained Huawei's packages and rerouted them to America.

Your responses, along with other Indian fellows who possess similar ideas, demonstrate how successful American strategy has been working on you. Facebooks' infiltration is dangerous to any society, that is so obvious. When every citizen of your country is connected to Facebook, it enables Facebook to monitor and manipulate you without being noticed.

Think about that, Americans can intervene your election by simply pushing more news that favors the candidate they support. And Facebook can easily conclude which candidate will get more votes before anybody else knows simply by analyzing statistics of its users, both of these tactics have been employed in the last American presidential election. Remember the Cambridge Analytical? Facebooks can know better about your people than anyone does as long as enough Indians are wired to Facebooks. This is not an exaggeration, if you understand a tiny bit of big data, you would know what Facebooks are capable of.

Huawei is no ZTE, and America hit Huawei because 5g is their soft spot not ours. You have the impression that Huawei employees are in news for wrong reasons because that is what western media report about Huawei. To them and their audience, Huawei's leading contribution to 5g are not good news to them. there has always been a coordinated propaganda campaign against Huawei, smearing it as technology theft and national security threat, and it is reaching its climax since America government issued executive order to ban Huawei. But let's be honest, Huawei's 5G is the best, how do you steal from someone who is less good?

How effective America's hits on Huawei is not conclusive yet, but it is obvious that Huawei is still hanging on. In the short term, Huawei will suffer, but in the long run, not just Huawei, but the whole Chinese IT industry will benefit from it.

 

[shankyz]

When u speak of ETHICS u shall check and respect FACTS above all, instead of being a loose cannon!

ZTE wasn't held for "espionage" or "rip-off" as u blabbered. ZTE was accused of following related to IRAN transactions ~~~

ZTE violated U.S. sanctions over a six-year period beginning in 2010 and obtained “hundreds of millions of dollars in contracts” from Iranian enterprises including the government.

——————————

Woefully YOUR ETHICS was the first victim in the cross-fire. Do live up to your own grandstanding.

ZTE was not only accused. It plead guilty, paid billions of dollars in embarrassing fines and begged & lobbied to get the ban lifted.

Espionage & ripoffs are the basic standard foundation of the Chinese telecom industry.

Go peddle your 50 Cent propaganda somewhere else.

 

[shankyz]

Information flows through Facebooks is not in the hands of Chinese people, but in the hands of American government. You have to admit that Facebooks aside from being commercial companies, are also powerful tools for collecting and distributing information, if American government wishes, Facebooks like any other American companies, will be involved in their secret agendas, as it has been confirmed that Facebook and Twitter played important roles in the Arab spring movement, and most recently FedEx detained Huawei's packages and rerouted them to America.

Your responses, along with other Indian fellows who possess similar ideas, demonstrate how successful American strategy has been working on you. Facebooks' infiltration is dangerous to any society, that is so obvious. When every citizen of your country is connected to Facebook, it enables Facebook to monitor and manipulate you without being noticed.

Think about that, Americans can intervene your election by simply pushing more news that favors the candidate they support. And Facebook can easily conclude which candidate will get more votes before anybody else knows simply by analyzing statistics of its users, both of these tactics have been employed in the last American presidential election. Remember the Cambridge Analytical? Facebooks can know better about your people than anyone does as long as enough Indians are wired to Facebooks. This is not an exaggeration, if you understand a tiny bit of big data, you would know what Facebooks are capable of.

Huawei is no ZTE, and America hit Huawei because 5g is their soft spot not ours. You have the impression that Huawei employees are in news for wrong reasons because that is what western media report about Huawei. To them and their audience, Huawei's leading contribution to 5g are not good news to them. there has always been a coordinated propaganda campaign against Huawei, smearing it as technology theft and national security threat, and it is reaching its climax since America government issued executive order to ban Huawei. But let's be honest, Huawei's 5G is the best, how do you steal from someone who is less good?

How effective America's hits on Huawei is not conclusive yet, but it is obvious that Huawei is still hanging on. In the short term, Huawei will suffer, but in the long run, not just Huawei, but the whole Chinese IT industry will benefit from it.

News is not filtered like you guys have in China.

We get news from multiple independent sources to verify & validate.

So you mean to say the below news are false:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...wei-manager-spying-china-190111120511777.html

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/h...ech-republic-over-espionage-allegations-24088

China Govt. threatens to sue an entire country based on report that a Chinese company Huawei is engaged in spying ....

This is the basic flaw of Chinese arguing, they will not counter with facts, rather browbeat the messenger, and threaten the country with economic costs if they did not tow their line. Might work with smaller countries, but not with countries with a spine, and certainly not today's US.

 

[Vijyes]

ZTE was not only accused. It plead guilty, paid billions of dollars in embarrassing fines and begged & lobbied to get the ban lifted.

Espionage & ripoffs are the basic standard foundation of the Chinese telecom industry.

Go peddle your 50 Cent propaganda somewhere else.

Yeah, zte violated sanctions against Iran as ZTE considered unilateral sanctions as arbitrary and unfair. But, that was ideological difference rather than espionage.

Your words keep getting illogical as more questions are asked. You are just stubborn to insist that your words are considered as is and simply fight for ego without facts.

 

[Vijyes]

This is the basic flaw of Chinese arguing, they will not counter with facts, rather browbeat the messenger, and threaten the country with economic costs if they did not tow their line. Might work with smaller countries, but not with countries with a spine, and certainly not today's US.

Questions can be argued or answered with facts. How to answer fake accusations with facts? If I accuse you pf cannibalism and state that you eat human babies after stealing them from hospital, what facts will you give to counter me?

You are simply getting emotional and arguing got sake of arguing

 

[shankyz]

Questions can be argued or answered with facts. How to answer fake accusations with facts? If I accuse you pf cannibalism and state that you eat human babies after stealing them from hospital, what facts will you give to counter me?

You are simply getting emotional and arguing got sake of arguing

And who are you to give a judgement that espionage news & accusations are all fake/false?

Entire countries are wrong - Poland , Czech Republic , UK , US - but China , the only flag bearer of transparency and honesty, is right.

You yourself are hellbent on blindly defending Huawei without any facts to back up.

 

[shankyz]

Yeah, zte violated sanctions against Iran as ZTE considered unilateral sanctions as arbitrary and unfair. But, that was ideological difference rather than espionage.

Your words keep getting illogical as more questions are asked. You are just stubborn to insist that your words are considered as is and simply fight for ego without facts.

Ideological differences ? Really ?

That's the excuse that was peddled in China by the CCP ?

 

[Vijyes]

And who are you to give a judgement that espionage news & accusations are all fake/false?

Entire countries are wrong - Poland , Czech Republic , UK , US - but China , the only flag bearer of transparency and honesty, is right.

You yourself are hellbent on blindly defending Huawei without any facts to back up.

Yeah, all these member states are aligned with USA. So, their accusations are not considered as accusations of many countries but just one entity- West.

Where is the evidence that Huawei due any secrets or data? Show me one evidence where it has been started that Huawei due anything before speaking authoritatively

Ideological differences ? Really ?

That's the excuse that was peddled in China by the CCP ?

So selling wifi router to Iran comes under espionage? Are you out of your mind? This was just clash of political interests of China and USA. Inventing foolish theories of espionage where ZTE had no access to any secret infrastructure or data but jut assembled parts is like accusing a cow of eating meat

 

[jon88]

So selling wifi router to Iran comes under espionage? Are you out of your mind? This was just clash of political interests of China and USA. Inventing foolish theories of espionage where ZTE had no access to any secret infrastructure or data but jut assembled parts is like accusing a cow of eating meat

LOL.. A lot of people in the tech industry also found that selling wifi router to Iran falls under espionage is totally ridiculous. In fact, quite a lot of companies supply those equipments to Iran. If you are an ally of US, you are not considered as violating US sanctions. India would be hit with sanctions too if not for the friendly relations with US. Malaysia and France too ignore US sanctions on Iran. Huawei and ZTE are just victims of a geopolitical clash. It is just unfair but it is also just plain bad luck ..

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Technology is not in any culture. But culture gives motivation to develop it. Technology is used to achieve an agenda. This agenda is set by culture. Since Indians had no cultural agenda, Indians did not develop Technology

Cultures don't have any agenda. Establishment does.

Countries who were leading world in technology in past are far behind west now.

Did I say that it is directly dependent? It can be indirect dependence too

Wealth is obtained by natural resources access either directly or indirectly. You seem to confuse the meaning of wealth. Wealth is itself knowledge and natural resource. Money, on the other hand is just quantification of labour.

After learning of these definition, you can see how giving monetary aid to unfortunate ones don't decrease wealth but only balances the distribution of labour and the reward.[/QUOTE]
If that is the case, your statement being "we don't have natural resources" is wrong.

 

[Vijyes]

Cultures don't have any agenda. Establishment does.

The agenda of the establishment ia 'established' by culture. Do you see Chinese converting people into Chinese when they conquer? But the Abrahamic ones do that everywhere. So, this agenda is cultural

Countries who were leading world in technology in past are far behind west now.

It was distant past. After that many centuries of degradation at different paces and situation happened, resulting in west becoming ahead of others.

If that is the case, your statement being "we don't have natural resources" is wrong

How? West has access yo natural resources via direct presence of resources like in USA, Australia or via political alliance with countries that have it (petrodollar alliance). This political alliance happened due to historical, geographical and cultural reasons resulting in indirect access to resources.

In case of countries like India and China, the history of actively pursuing goals is small and hence had much less political alliance and indirect access to resources. The resources which are available within the territory is the only accessible resources for these countries. For China, the amount of indigenous resource is significant whereas it is minimal for India.

India has very little resources and hence limited economy. Countries like China has vast indigenous resource base and hence large economy. Countries like USA has large indigenous resource in addition to political resources and hence largest economy. Countries like France has no indigenous resource but political access to large resource base of USA and hence large economy.

Bottom line - economy relies on access to natural resources. The natural resources can be either indigenous or from political allies. But access to resources is compulsory for economy. If there is no access to sufficient resource, the economy will be small.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

The agenda of the establishment ia 'established' by culture. Do you see Chinese converting people into Chinese when they conquer? But the Abrahamic ones do that everywhere. So, this agenda is cultural

Here we are talking about technology, not conversion that's mandated in Abrahamic world.

It was distant past. After that many centuries of degradation at different paces and situation happened, resulting in west becoming ahead of others.

There is a thing called great divergence.

And there are reasons why Asia is catching up again.

How? West has access yo natural resources via direct presence of resources like in USA, Australia or via political alliance with countries that have it (petrodollar alliance). This political alliance happened due to historical, geographical and cultural reasons resulting in indirect access to resources.

In case of countries like India and China, the history of actively pursuing goals is small and hence had much less political alliance and indirect access to resources. The resources which are available within the territory is the only accessible resources for these countries. For China, the amount of indigenous resource is significant whereas it is minimal for India.

India has very little resources and hence limited economy. Countries like China has vast indigenous resource base and hence large economy. Countries like USA has large indigenous resource in addition to political resources and hence largest economy. Countries like France has no indigenous resource but political access to large resource base of USA and hence large economy.

Bottom line - economy relies on access to natural resources. The natural resources can be either indigenous or from political allies. But access to resources is compulsory for economy. If there is no access to sufficient resource, the economy will be small.

There is no point again. Those resources don't come themselves. Your people have to be skilled and your industry should be able to enable you to buy them.

You are stating their consumption or fetching as formula of success what actually is a state and not a way of success. I stated the way.

 

[Vijyes]

There is no point again. Those resources don't come themselves. Your people have to be skilled and your industry should be able to enable you to buy them.

You are stating their consumption or fetching as formula of success what actually is a state and not a way of success. I stated the way.

Actually the fetching of resources is the reason for success in economy. You are trying to skip over this which ruins the whole point. Technology and all are important too, but the Technology can be applied on natural resources only. If there is no natural resources, then Technology becomes useless. Eg: A car without fuel is useless.

Here we are talking about technology, not conversion that's mandated in Abrahamic world

Even Technology started as a tool of conquest. All the Technology we see today was started or spun-off from military use. So, here too, it was the cultural factor that gave 'conquest-mindset' that resulted in Technology development and eventually spinning off into economy. All the major economic countries today started as a military power and only spun off the Technology into civilian domain after reaching military objectives.