Brazil MMRCA contest.

p2prada

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OK, so Argentina is faring poorly, economically. That settles it.

But then, as you said, why not the "cheaper than JF-17" option, i.e. Mig29SMT
A JF-17 comes at $20-25 Million. A Mig-29SMT is $35 Million. Soft loans offers help, if any was included.
 

TrueSpirit

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I'm guessing costs are a factor. JF-17 is more expensive than a Mig-29SMT, nearly twice the cost.
OK, so Argentina is faring poorly, economically. That settles it.

But then, as you said, why not the "cheaper than JF-17" option, i.e. Mig29SMT
A JF-17 comes at $20-25 Million. A Mig-29SMT is $35 Million. Soft loans offers help, if any was included.
Ok, you meant JF-17 is cheaper than SMT, rather than vice-versa. Yeah, I thought so,
 

halloweene

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Recently talked with Brazilian test pilot, he is expecting (at least he would be despaired if not) either september (brazil national day) or october (visit of rousseff to USA) decision.
 
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TrueSpirit

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Recently talked with Brazilian test pilot, he is expecting (at least he would be despaired if not) either september (brazil national day) or october (visit of rousseff to USA) decision.
So, it is either SH or SU-35, right ?
 

p2prada

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Su-35 is not in contention. Russia is merely offering it outside the tender.
 

IBSA

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Recently talked with Brazilian test pilot, he is expecting (at least he would be despaired if not) either september (brazil national day) or october (visit of rousseff to USA) decision.
I'm not so optimist. After the several demonstrations in Brazil there is no political climate to spend money purchasing weapons. People will criticize it as an unnecessary expenditure now. Next year there are national elections.

Gov is doing a reorganization of its investments to answer the protesters' claim priority for education, health, transport, basic infra-structure.
 

sob

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I'm not so optimist. After the several demonstrations in Brazil there is no political climate to spend money purchasing weapons. People will criticize it as an unnecessary expenditure now. Next year there are national elections.

Gov is doing a reorganization of its investments to answer the protesters' claim priority for education, health, transport, basic infra-structure.
My thoughts too looking at the recent rounds of protest. Do you think that whatever big ticket decisions will be taken will be after the World Cup, I mean the money spend on this tournament is one of the main reasons of the discontent.

( By the way congrats on the Football final, saw your team decimate the Spanish side, early hours in the morning here)
 

TrueSpirit

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I'm not so optimist. After the several demonstrations in Brazil there is no political climate to spend money purchasing weapons. People will criticize it as an unnecessary expenditure now. Next year there are national elections.

Gov is doing a reorganization of its investments to answer the protesters' claim priority for education, health, transport, basic infra-structure.
So, the last I heard ( a week ago), the protesters & Govt. have reached an agreement, right ?
 

p2prada

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I'm not so optimist. After the several demonstrations in Brazil there is no political climate to spend money purchasing weapons. People will criticize it as an unnecessary expenditure now. Next year there are national elections.

Gov is doing a reorganization of its investments to answer the protesters' claim priority for education, health, transport, basic infra-structure.
That would mean a new tender in the form of FX3 is possible.
 

halloweene

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That would mean a new tender in the form of FX3 is possible.
Yes, but if they do so theyll have to land many planes... the pilot i was phoning to is vianney riller jr btw, i sure our brazilian friend know him defesanet test pilot
 

Armand2REP

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You can go ahead and close this thread. The last thing on Brasil's mind now is buying fighters.
 

p2prada

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The Brazilians have pushed for bid extension until September this year. Let's see what happens.
 

IBSA

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So, the last I heard ( a week ago), the protesters & Govt. have reached an agreement, right ?
What agreement?? there are no leadership of protesters. Protesters are spontaneous. People combines by social networks as facebook, avaaz, etc., to join themselves in a place of cities after they exit of work at 17 o' clock So there aren't someone whom government can to deal. Government is confused and dont knows what shall do.
 

geoBR

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This is not true. The protests are not spontaneous. Only a very innocent and uncultured political or historical believe that an entire country would protest without a definite cause and without someone coordinating all this.
The liberal media is all strongly supporting the protests, which are being handled by external agents who want to weaken our state and tarnish the image of Brazil abroad.
The parties of the far left (Trotskyists mostly) hate any form of state and are rejoicing with all this.
All this is a great plan of the globalists to undermine the Brazilian State. Do not believe the media nor in the loutish pseudo-revolutionary iPhone. Most of those on the streets of Brazil are middle class, overgrown boys. Many are already calling it "the revolt of the iPhone" :lol:

Read this article:

Nil Nikandrov - Who is Shaking Up Brazil and Why - Strategic Culture Foundation - on-line journal > Who is Shaking Up Brazil and Why > Strategic-Culture.org - Strategic Culture Foundation
 

geoBR

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Who is Shaking Up Brazil and Why

Nil Nikandrov - Who is Shaking Up Brazil and Why - Strategic Culture Foundation - on-line journal > Who is Shaking Up Brazil and Why > Strategic-Culture.org - Strategic Culture Foundation




The mass street protests in Brazil continue. Most of the protesters do not belong to any party and have no leaders with whom the authorities could negotiate about the demands being made. It all began with a flare-up of discontent among Brazilians from the middle class and residents of poor neighborhoods with a hike in public transportation fares. Fares were high to begin with, and the most recent fare hike was met with indignation from city dwellers who do not have their own cars.

Transportation problems are a constant topic of critical speeches in the country. Many Brazilians often have to spend a total of 5-6 hours to get to work and then return home. The people's discontent was further roused by the appearance in social networks, as if on command, of materials about «multibillion expenditures from the state coffers» on the construction of sport venues for the World Football Championship in 2014 and the 2016 Summer Olympic Games. Handwritten signs in the demonstrators' hands show that not all Brazilians live for football battles and sports records: «We need modern public transportation, quality education, medical services and guaranteed work». Calls to fight corruption are also heard. The «sports boom» is more and more often associated in public opinion with corruption in the government and the «mutually profitable connections» of some of its members with construction companies and financial and entrepreneurial circles. According to various estimates, between 300 and 500 people turned out for the demonstrations. The protests have not yet subsided. Organization of the protesters is conducted mainly through the «Forum for Fighting Ticket Price Hikes».

The signals for the protests were «mobilizing» messages from anonymous Facebook users whose location is as of yet difficult to ascertain. However, there are some conjectures about who these instigators are. For example, on June 19 a photograph was published on the page of the Brazilian Facebook «Human Rights» community depicting the company's owner, Mark Zuckerberg, holding a sign in English saying: «It's not 20 cents! #ChangeBrasil!» It is well known that at the beginning of Zuckerberg's entrepreneurial career the CIA established contact with him and financed his business. His working connections with the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) are no secret either. So Zuckerberg's incitement to protest after unexpectedly becoming alarmed by the increase in public transportation fares in Brazil is unlikely to be his own initiative.

The slogans of the «fight for change» have stimulated the political life of the universities and other institutions of higher learning. Students are willing to be in the forefront of the fight for social and political rights, although the hidden manipulators have not been able to create a centralized leadership for the protests. Now that the modus operandi of U.S. intelligence has been revealed by Edward Snowden, their activities in Brazil and several other countries have been placed in «elevated threat» mode.

Brazilian counterintelligence and police are doing all they can to find the people who have quickly introduced an acute «whistle-blowing» agenda to the Internet discussions of students and other groups of protesters. The investigation of «hostile use» of social networks has been stepped up. Over 80 million people in Brazil have Internet access, and 140 million use mobile phones. Naturally, slogans aimed at destabilizing the sociopolitical situation are not ignored. The activities of NGOs, foreign agents which maintain contact with the U.S. embassy and consulates and the USAID office in Brazil, are also attracting interest. Local bloggers have noticed that protests are reaching the highest pitch in the cities where there are U.S. representative offices - in the Brazilian capital and in Rio de Janeiro, Porto Allegre, Sao Paolo, etc.

One of the largest CIA and U.S. military intelligence stations is operating in Brazil. The political coordinator of these operations in Brazil is Ambassador Thomas Shannon. We can take it that he has accomplished his goal in dealing with the «South American giant». June's protests, which to all appearances will continue into July, have to a great extent damaged the ideal image of a successful and dynamically developing Brazil which was prevalent in the international media.

The presidential elections in Brazil will take place in October 2014; Dilma Rousseff plans to run for a second presidential term, and thus any destabilizing actions are seen as the activities of political rivals: «They're testing our mettle!» At first in some states the local authorities responded to the protests very harshly, using military police to put them down. Rousseff condemned the «excessive use of force», emphasizing that the decision to use the military police against the demonstrators was made by state leaders.



There are many in the country who oppose the «rule of the left» and feel that over the ten years of the presidencies of Lula da Silva and Dilma Rousseff «the regime has become corrupt» and should be changed. When analyzing the events that are taking place, Brazilian political scientists emphasize that they caught both the government and Dilma Rousseff off guard; the latter had to cancel a visit to Japan. After a series of meetings, including meetings with defense and law enforcement leaders, Rousseff chose the only possible course of action: adopting a conciliatory policy rather than a confrontational one that would arouse passions. She essentially announced that she supports the demonstrators. In a televised address to the nation she stated that she is proud that many Brazilians are fighting for a better future for the country: «It's good to see so many young people, and mature people as well, walking side by side, waving Brazilian flags and singing the national anthem.» She emphasized that she would never allow international sporting events to be held at the expense of state-funded social programs.



In order to stanch the wave of protests, Dilma Rousseff suggested organizing a «plebiscite» on the issue of conducting an in-depth political reform in the country. In the end, the plebiscite and subsequent steps should lead to the calling of a Constitutional Assembly which would amend the main law of the land to be more democratic, increasing the role of the people in making important decisions on the country's development. These plans are already evoking opposition from Brazilian financial oligarchic circles. The president's opponents believe that the «Lula-Rousseff course for sociopolitical modernization» will lead to the establishment of a «populist regime» like that of Hugo Chavez.

The Obama administration is doing all it can to prevent such a prospect. That is how the creation of the Pacific Alliance, uniting four countries in the region - Mexico, Columbia, Peru and Chile – under the aegis of the U.S. should be interpreted. As envisioned by Washington, the Alliance will, among other things, help to limit the influence of Brazil in the Western Hemisphere and to create a powerful geostrategic «counterweight to Brazilian expansion». Under various pretexts, the Pentagon is organizing joint military exercises with Brazil's neighbors - Trinidad and Tobago, Suriname, Guyana and Peru. In essence, the Americans are studying a future theater of military operations. The U.S. Fourth Fleet is patrolling the regions of the Atlantic Ocean near oil deposits on the Brazilian shelf. The United States is keeping up efforts to weaken Brazil's allies and partners in the region, first of all Venezuela, Ecuador, Nicaragua and Cuba. NATO's rapprochement with Colombia can also be explained in part as the creation of an additional «pressure factor» on Brazil.

The protests continue. Through the efforts of the media, ugly details about how the areas around stadiums (old ones and those under construction) were «cleansed of dangerous elements» and how the homes of the poor were demolished for construction sites without adequate financial compensation came out. The central government is having to answer for the actions of local authorities.

Events in Brazil are being covered by the Western media down to the tiniest detail. Political scientists assess their work as a deliberate operation to compromise the image of Brazil and its ability to organize large international sporting events. There have even been suggestions that the football championship should be canceled due to danger to the lives of the players and fans. This is a rehearsal for using the upcoming sporting events in Brazil to pressure the country on issues that have nothing to do with sports"¦
 

IBSA

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Brazil warns of mistrust if US spying row not resolved
AFP | Aug 14, 2013, 01.51 AM IST

BRASiLIA: Brazil warned US secretary of state John Kerry on Tuesday that failure to resolve the row over Washington's electronic spying could sow mistrust between the countries.

Foreign minister Antonio Patriota told a press conference after talks with Kerry that revelations about the vast US global surveillance network posed a "new challenge in our bilateral relationship."

"If the implications of this challenge are not satisfactorily resolved, they ran the risk of casting a shadow of mistrust over our work," he added in Brasilia.

"Practices which harm the sovereignty and relations of trust between states and violate the individual freedoms which our countries so cherish must be stopped," Patriota said.

Kerry, who on his first trip to South America since he became US chief diplomat in February, said: "Brazil is owed answers with respect to those questions and they will get them."

"We will have this dialogue with the view to make it certain that your government is in complete understanding and complete agreement with what it is that we must to do provide security, not just for Americans, but for Brazilians and the people of the world," he added.

Washington has argued that it needs the vast surveillance programme conducted by the National Security Agency to combat terrorism.

The US chief diplomat arrived here late on Monday from Colombia where he also defended Washington's electronic espionage in the region, brought to light by fugitive intelligence leaker Edward Snowden.

Based on documents leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, the daily O Globo reported last month that Washington eavesdropped on Brazilians' telephone conversations and emails.

A US spy base in Brasilia, part of a worldwide network of 16 such stations operated by the NSA, also intercepted foreign satellite transmissions, it claimed.

The two foreign ministers also discussed Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff's scheduled state visit to the United States in October.

Last week, Patriota insisted that despite the furor over US snooping on phone calls and internet communications in Brazil, the trip was still on.

Kerry was scheduled to call on Rousseff later in the day.
 

IBSA

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The spying's scandal revealed by Snowden has affected negatively the US-Brazil relations.

USA made a right lance when it had bought Brazilian Tucanos airplanes to arm Afghan Air Force, but after this scandal Brazil can rethink its aim of to buy American Hornet fighters on FX-2 Program.

On this meeting which will happen in October the fighters issue is out of the discussion's table. A bad signal.
 

IBSA

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15 December 2013| last updated at 07:55PM
'France loses out on Brazil jets deal'

France will lose out in its bid to win a multibillion-dollar fighter jet contract with Brazil, the Folha de Sao Paulo daily reported Saturday.

The newspaper set France's $4 billion proposal for 36 Rafale fighter jets, from a consortium led by French giant Dassault, will be shot down for cost reason. It did not say who would be the likely winner of the highly prized contract.

The French bid is up against Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet and the Gripen, made by Sweden's Saab, for its FX-2 program.

French President Francois Hollande held talks Thursday with his Brazilian counterpart Dilma Rousseff in Brasilia during which he backed sharing technological knowhow and saluted increasing bilateral trade.

With Brazil seeking to retire its Mirage 2000 jets at the end of the year, France has been pushing the merits of the Rafale, initially believing it had a deal under Hollande's predecessor Nicolas Sarkozy.

Rousseff's predecessor, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, had said in 2009 that Brazil would plump for the Rafale but he left office before a deal could be put together and Rousseff then decided to reassess the options.

Indications in Brazil are that Rousseff is not ready to approve such a big-ticket purchase going into a year in which she seeks re-election and when her government is already under fire from voters for the estimated $11 billion cost of staging the World Cup.

Folha predicted a final decision would not come before 2015.

http://www.nst.com.my/opinion/editorial/france-loses-out-on-brazil-jets-deal-1.433733
 

IBSA

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Brazilian media: "Exit Rafale"

The French made Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft is off the table (again) in the run for Brazil's next generation fighter, a main quality newspaper of the country reported on 15 December 2013.

According to the Folha São Paulo (rotation 200,000+) the Brazilian government finds the Rafale too expensive to use. That leaves the Swedish Saab JAS 39 Gripen-E/NG and the Boeing F/A-18E/F (Advanced) Super Hornet as the final competitors.

The Gripen has an advantage if Brazil wants brand-new aircraft. Boeing is set to decide to close the Super Hornet's production line in 2014 if no new orders show up on the horizon. Brazil's fighter decision is not expected before 2015.

If the Rafale is truly exit the charm offensive of then French president Nicolas Sarkozy has been to no avail. From the beginning the Dassault plane seemed too expensive for the Latin America country, but its government re-opened the full bidding process partly thanks to pressure from Paris. Sarkozy left office in 2012.

Favour the Gripen NG
Brazil wants to buy 36 fighter aircraft to start replacing its Mirage 2000s and Northrop F-5s. The Mirage 2000s are even expected to stop flying with the Força Aérea Brasileira (FAB) this December. The Brazilian Air Force brass is said to favour the Gripen NG as well, probably because it is easier and cheaper to maintain.

According to reports leaked out by Swiss Air Force personnel the Rafale has the upper hand in several combat scenarios and in technology compared to an early demo Gripen NG. But with the fully developed Gripen-E on its way the Swiss are also poised to get 22 of these more affordable Swedish fighter jets.

When two dogs fight for a bone, there might be the unexpected third dog to run away with it. Sukhoi has offered the Brazilians its next generation stealth fighter, the delayed T-50, including sharing its technology with the Brazilian industry. The FAB is not strange to Russian technology, as it already flies Russian made Mi-35M Hind attack helicopters. If the Sukhoi T-50 is really going to be the jack-in-the-box, we'll have to see.


The participation of FAB Mirage 2000s at the Cruzex Crusade 2013 was a bit of a surprise, as Brazil is expected to stop flying the type in December. (Image © Ralph Blok)

Brazilian media: "Exit Rafale"
 

ladder

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If not Rafale then Saab Gripen might have become front runner as F/A-18 super hornet is still uncertain due to the low in diplomatic relations between the two countries.
 

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