Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

[sayareakd]

I was looking at videos of the Strong Europe tank competition that took place recently. It just occured to me that if Arjun was participating in it, it would fit perfectly in with the other NATO tanks in terms of appearance, performance, crew roles, accuracy etc. The T 90 on the other hand would have looked very odd in that crowd.

Post video link..........................................

 

[sayareakd]

It is only when the 125mm shells start flying towards our tanks will the Army realize the value of protection. It is quite telling that the T 90 is never shown without its ERA, as if its part of the tank body itself. It's not. For both the T 80 and T 90, it is the protocol that you never deploy these tanks without the ERA. I don't think I've ever seem a video of the T 90 operating without its ERA. Not only that, Russian tanks have a whole lot of boxes around the turret which gives it a modern appearance. Remove both the ERA and those storage boxes, and you will have one of the most weird looking tanks in the world. No other country has such a philosophy with its tanks. The protection of all other tanks is primarily measured by its actual armour, and ERA packages are seen as optional. Arjun Mk 1's protection was superior even without ERA's vs T 90 with ERA's.

Secondly, the ammunition storage problem has not gone away in the T 90. The crew is sitting unprotected on top of all the ammunition. We saw what happens when these go off in the first gulf war. Compare that to the Abrams and Leopard which have them stowed away in the back behind blast doors. Arjun can also be easily modified to have the same.

Sometimes you pay price to learn things hard way. Isrealis lesrn hard way in Hisbullah war, now Trophy is standard in all their tanks, they even made auto loader trophy. Our army is living in old 80s tank doctrine, when it comes to crew protection. We have seen what happen to T series tanks in Gulf war, now new age RPG can take out any modern tank. I expect Pak anti teams getting ready for our tanks. But our infantry would be ready for them.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Post video link..........................................

Here it is. Now imagine Arjun in it. Fits in perfectly.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Sometimes you pay price to learn things hard way. Isrealis lesrn hard way in Hisbullah war, now Trophy is standard in all their tanks, they even made auto loader trophy. Our army is living in old 80s tank doctrine, when it comes to crew protection. We have seen what happen to T series tanks in Gulf war, now new age RPG can take out any modern tank. I expect Pak anti teams getting ready for our tanks. But our infantry would be ready for them.

Considering the leopard 2 and Abrams came out in the 1980's I would push our tank philosophy back to the 1970s. The irony is we already made a tank that can more or less match the above, but our army is happy operating upgraded T 72's called the T 90.

 

[Blood Rain]

Nah, Arjun in its present form is simply unfit for service induction.......just too many flaws that may have fatal consequences.Better scrap the whole damn thing and start a fresh - back to the drawing board.

 

[WolfPack86]

Design work on a structurally improved and weight optimized Arjun MK-II tank is complete. At the moment , development work on a reconfigured hull is underway at Ordnance Factory Medak and Reliance Defence.

 

[Enquirer]

Design work on a structurally improved and weight optimized Arjun MK-II tank is complete. At the moment , development work on a reconfigured hull is underway at Ordnance Factory Medak and Reliance Defence.

Another 2 years of development & 4-5 years of tests/trials.
Will IA order 65 tonne Arjun Mk2 7 years from now? Wouldn't the focus be on FMBT?
(Yes, the goal of the weight reduction is to get it to 65 tonnes)
Can't seem to understand what the strategy for MBTs are!

 

[WolfPack86]

Design work on a structurally improved and weight optimized Arjun MK-II tank is complete. At the moment , development work on a reconfigured hull is underway at Ordnance Factory Medak and Reliance Defence says Saurav Jha
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamINDRA/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Any news about Bharat Power pack which was supposed to have 1400HP normal power and 1800HP turbocharge power?

 

[ersakthivel]

This sounds like someone regurgitating what that quack PKS said sometime back. PKS claimed that HNS based Arjun will be built within 18 months from when the project was supposed to have begun - complete fluff!!

Also, what’s this nonsense about digital design having better ‘tolerances’ than paper design???
A digital (CAD/CAM) designs have mostly been productionanized using regular (non-automated/robotic) production techniques world over. Just because a company scanned paper designs to covert them into a digital database (an exercise which could take a year or so in order to make sure there are no ‘errors’ in the conversion) doesn’t mean that the production line will be equipped with scores of heavy-duty 6-axis robots!! When did CVRDE mention that they’re setting up a brand NEW robotic production line? CVRDE still hasn’t recovered the setup costs for the original Arjun (and as such keeps insisting on bigger orders to recoup the original costs)!!!

Also, new metallurgy/design will mean re-running ALL tests on the new-Arjun! Which means 4-5 years of trials AFTER 3-4 years of design/development. All-in-all another 7-9 years wait for induction!!

Why would Army wait for another 9 years to get the same Arjun features (with a minor 3-4 tonne weight saving from an overweight 68 tonne tank)??? Would it not just ask for the FRCV in the next 9-10 years??

In all probability Arjun Mk2 will finally come with some weight reductions due to aluminum wheels etc. And that’s all!!! HNS, if used, will go directly into FRCV etc.

This sounds like someone regurgitating what that quack PKS said sometime back. PKS claimed that HNS based Arjun will be built within 18 months from when the project was supposed to have begun - complete fluff!!

Also, what’s this nonsense about digital design having better ‘tolerances’ than paper design???
A digital (CAD/CAM) designs have mostly been productionanized using regular (non-automated/robotic) production techniques world over. Just because a company scanned paper designs to covert them into a digital database (an exercise which could take a year or so in order to make sure there are no ‘errors’ in the conversion) doesn’t mean that the production line will be equipped with scores of heavy-duty 6-axis robots!! When did CVRDE mention that they’re setting up a brand NEW robotic production line? CVRDE still hasn’t recovered the setup costs for the original Arjun (and as such keeps insisting on bigger orders to recoup the original costs)!!!

Also, new metallurgy/design will mean re-running ALL tests on the new-Arjun! Which means 4-5 years of trials AFTER 3-4 years of design/development. All-in-all another 7-9 years wait for induction!!

Why would Army wait for another 9 years to get the same Arjun features (with a minor 3-4 tonne weight saving from an overweight 68 tonne tank)??? Would it not just ask for the FRCV in the next 9-10 years??

In all probability Arjun Mk2 will finally come with some weight reductions due to aluminum wheels etc. And that’s all!!! HNS, if used, will go directly into FRCV etc.

What a surprise???

Which FRCV is ready for induction in 9 years??

Digital designs can be passed on to CNC machines , which produce tight fit tolerance parts,

What is the role of 6 axis robot in this,?

 

[ersakthivel]

Another 2 years of development & 4-5 years of tests/trials.
Will IA order 65 tonne Arjun Mk2 7 years from now? Wouldn't the focus be on FMBT?
(Yes, the goal of the weight reduction is to get it to 65 tonnes)
Can't seem to understand what the strategy for MBTs are!

Which FMBT is ready in 7 years??

 

[Enquirer]

Any news about Bharat Power pack which was supposed to have 1400HP normal power and 1800HP turbocharge power?

Project was slated for completion by Dec 2018 but it has been delayed till Dec 2022 - primarily because there were no takers in private industry for joint development.

 

[ersakthivel]

Agreed to most points, except that part...
Arjun's tech might be India's latest one's, but the base platform is not. The Mark 2 seems like a jugaad upgrade of it.

You said "heavy armour of Arjun". Ok, take a look at this...

When an Al Khalid fires 5 Naiza DU shots, aiming for the centre of its silhouette, how many do you think will go clean through & kill a crewman?
View attachment 23981
Unless it hits the blue area, probably 4 out of 5... 3 if the crew is lucky.

In case of a tank, it's the opponent gunner that should be the one who gets lucky, not our tankies, don't you think?
However a T-90 would fare better, atleast at longer ranges...

I had a very long argument running into months,

years before on this point with guys Dejawolf, & gang

Finally cleared by
@Kunal Biswas

There is no weakness on the Arjun front turret, because of Gunners Main Sight, as most guys assume.

The turret has heavy armor behind it as well.

Link below,

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/arjun-main-battle-tank-mbt-mark-i.9558/page-271


It was a very long discussion ,finally settled by moderator

@Kunal Biswas
after his visit to defence expo.


This much I can say with confidence

 

[Enquirer]

What a surprise???

Which FRCV is ready for induction in 9 years??

Digital designs can be passed on to CNC machines , which produce tight fit tolerance parts,

What is the role of 6 axis robot in this,?

You think they were hand filing the components for Arjun Mk1?
You think CNC machines didn't exist with CVRDE before now? Or do you think that in the absence of CAD/CAM designs, CVRDE were sloppy in entering the values?

Think before you spew foul smell.

I am going to choose not to respond to your posts, even if your b!~(# @Willy3 thinks you won because of that!

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Project was slated for completion by Dec 2018 but it has been delayed till Dec 2022 - primarily because there were no takers in private industry for joint development.

All development is done by government or with government funding only. The defence items are restricted in nature and not something private companies can work on their own money. Even if private companies make defence items, they can't sell it to anyone they want. So, why will private companies develop engines which will be under govt control?

Can you give me a source for it?

 

[ersakthivel]

You think they were hand filing the components for Arjun Mk1?
You think CNC machines didn't exist with CVRDE before now? Or do you think that in the absence of CAD/CAM designs, CVRDE were sloppy in entering the values?

Think before you spew foul smell.

I am going to choose not to respond to your posts, even if your b!~(# @Willy3 thinks you won because of that!

Any bud head knows CAD/CAM has nothing to do with having 6 axis robots in production line.

CAD/CAM digitizes parts & This digital drawing is converted to machine program & fed to CNC multi axis machines of tier 1 ,tier 2 vendors.

Do you hv any certified proof, for CVRDE not using multi axis CNC machines in its premises or its vendor's premises to make Arjun parts?

Which fool told you CAD/CAM directly transfers parts info to 6 axis robots in production line??

Earlier too Arjun parts could hv been digitized,

Any budhead knows software packages improve every year.

Newer tech CNC machines with different CAD/CAM needs come into market.

So digitizing could hv been carried as per the needs,

What does that have to do with having 6 axis robots in Assembly line?

6 axis robots don't machine, they assemble.


"digital (CAD/CAM) designs have mostly been productionanized using regular (non-automated/robotic)production techniquesworld over. Just because acompany scanned paper designs to covert them into a digital database (an exercise which could take a year or so in order to make surethere are no ‘errors’ in the conversion) doesn’t meanthat the production line will be equipped with scores of heavy-duty 6-axis robots!! When did CVRDE mentionthat they’re setting up abrand NEW roboticproduction line? CVRDE still hasn’t recovered the setupcosts for the original Arjun (and as such keeps insisting on bigger orders to "




Question still stands,

What is the link between having 6 axis robots in CVRDE Production line,

&

the digitizing of Arjun parts?

Digitizing drawing means multi axis CNC Machines get digital drawing & tight , perfectly machined parts are sent to CVRDE.

These parts are assembled in CVRDE Assembly line,


Assembly line can have humans or robots.


That has nothing to do with digitization & CNC machining of parts.

There are many factories who use CNC machined parts , but don't hv 6 axis robots in production line.

6 axis robots are primarily used for speedy production in not for receiving CAD/CAM drawings.

Any budhead who has ever seen a production line will know this.

Please consult a good astrologer regarding , which FRCV or FMBT will knock on IA's doors in 7 years time,

Wonder why you haven't given any foul mouthed reply for this question of mine.

Lets see how you dodge here,,,

I won't use foul words here,

Lets see how you reply,,

 

[Enquirer]

Any bud head knows CAD/CAM has nothing to do with having 6 axis robots in production line.

CAD/CAM digitizes parts & This digital drawing is converted to machine program & fed to CNC multi axis machines of tier 1 ,tier 2 vendors.

Do you hv any certified proof, for CVRDE not using multi axis CNC machines in its premises or its vendor's premises to make Arjun parts?

Which fool told you CAD/CAM directly transfers parts info to 6 axis robots in production line??

Earlier too Arjun parts could hv been digitized,

Any budhead knows software packages improve every year.

Newer tech CNC machines with different CAD/CAM needs come into market.

So digitizing could hv been carried as per the needs,

What does that have to do with having 6 axis robots in Assembly line?

6 axis robots don't machine, they assemble.


"digital (CAD/CAM) designs have mostly been productionanized using regular (non-automated/robotic)production techniquesworld over. Just because acompany scanned paper designs to covert them into a digital database (an exercise which could take a year or so in order to make surethere are no ‘errors’ in the conversion) doesn’t meanthat the production line will be equipped with scores of heavy-duty 6-axis robots!! When did CVRDE mentionthat they’re setting up abrand NEW roboticproduction line? CVRDE still hasn’t recovered the setupcosts for the original Arjun (and as such keeps insisting on bigger orders to "




Question still stands,

What is the link between having 6 axis robots in CVRDE Production line,

&

the digitizing of Arjun parts?

Digitizing drawing means multi axis CNC Machines get digital drawing & tight , perfectly machined parts are sent to CVRDE.

These parts are assembled in CVRDE Assembly line,


Assembly line can have humans or robots.


That has nothing to do with digitization & CNC machining of parts.

There are many factories who use CNC machined parts , but don't hv 6 axis robots in production line.

6 axis robots are primarily used for speedy production in not for receiving CAD/CAM drawings.

Any budhead who has ever seen a production line will know this.

Please consult a good astrologer regarding , which FRCV or FMBT will knock on IA's doors in 7 years time,

Wonder why you haven't given any foul mouthed reply for this question of mine.

Lets see how you dodge here,,,

I won't use foul words here,

Lets see how you reply,,

You're pathetic! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Enquirer]

All development is done by government or with government funding only. The defence items are restricted in nature and not something private companies can work on their own money. Even if private companies make defence items, they can't sell it to anyone they want. So, why will private companies develop engines which will be under govt control?

Can you give me a source for it?

If you had just asked me politely for the source material, I would have gladly provided it (doc from MoD).
But then you have to preface your question with the jibber-jabber of disinformation in an attempt to show off that you know something, even though you don't! Quite annoying!

 

[sayareakd]

Another 2 years of development & 4-5 years of tests/trials.
Will IA order 65 tonne Arjun Mk2 7 years from now? Wouldn't the focus be on FMBT?
(Yes, the goal of the weight reduction is to get it to 65 tonnes)
Can't seem to understand what the strategy for MBTs are!

Relax Ambani hai na..........................

 

[Enquirer]

Relax Ambani hai na..........................

Maana ki dono bhai thoap hai,
Par issme kya phod le-enge?