Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

[Payeng]

The above article @Sridhar says about a possible replacement of German MTU MB 838 Ka-501 diesel unit, with a Cummins QSK-38 turbocharged diesel unit, possibly wont happen in this round of trails as per reports. If I am not wrong the change in gear ratio/final drive/spocket was advocated during Mk I trails as modification to be done for the MK II version for better torque delivery, Top speed should not be a matter for a vehicle of this kind and utility.

 

[Payeng]

Guys any idea regarding this indigenous power unit proposed for future tank requirement? like who is going to make it, and status of the project?

 

[methos]

knee jerking ? idrw copy news from other places and post..

You should be looking other sources and good for you i have posted other sources in this small thread, care to read before post..

It clearly says on MilitaryToday.com that it is only a speculation that the Arjun Mk 2 might use the Cummins engine... and that on a website where everybody can become an editor. At the same time much newer sources say that it still uses the 1,400 hp MTU engine.

 

[Decklander]

Present MK2 uses MTU engine with 1400HP only.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

My response was about idrw not military-today, try to read post properly at-least..

Thanks..

it was written once the first images of the Arjun Mk. 2 prototypes were released. It also fails at mentioning the reduced top speed.

It clearly says on MilitaryToday.com that it is only a speculation that the Arjun Mk 2 might use the Cummins engine... and that on a website where everybody can become an editor. At the same time much newer sources say that it still uses the 1,400 hp MTU engine.

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

posted by kunal few weeks ago regarding engine

posted by kunal http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/9558-arjun-main-battle-tank-mbt-223.html#post560748

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The strange thing in Ukrainian engines is 1800hp engine consume lesser fuel than 1400hp engine..

In that sense its worth to go for directly 1800hp engine and license produce it, This will also help our own engine program which is under 1500hp..

 

[pmaitra]

could be they're talking about torque instead of power. engine power is reduced, torque is increased, end result is tank retains acceleration, but loses top speed.

Yes, that is what I suggested here: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ain-battle-tank-mbt-mark-ii-4.html#post737631

 

[pmaitra]

The strange thing in Ukrainian engines is 1800hp engine consume lesser fuel than 1400hp engine..

In that sense its worth to go for directly 1800hp engine and license produce it, This will also help our own engine program which is under 1500hp..

That is an interesting observation.

I did notice that the compression ratios are different. I wonder whether increasing the compression ratio also improves efficiency. Do you have data about the displacements of these engines? I would like to study them.

Thanks!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This is much i can found on there website :

KMDB - Tank Power Pack with 6TD-2 Engine

=================
@Damian may have more info..

Do you have data about the displacements of these engines? I would like to study them.

Thanks!

 

[Damian]

KMDB - Tank Power Pack with 6TD-2 Engine

Here is manufacturer informations about 6TD-2.

 

[pmaitra]

Those links do not specify the engine displacement.

 

[Dejawolf]

That is an interesting observation.

I did notice that the compression ratios are different. I wonder whether increasing the compression ratio also improves efficiency. Do you have data about the displacements of these engines? I would like to study them.

Thanks!

displacement of 5TDF engine is 13.3l. 6TDF is based on 5TDF, which is the engine of the T-64.
all of these engines are opposing piston design, which has 2 crankshafts, and where the pistons face eachother
Technik.
this decreases the volume of the engine, but also increase complexity.

 

[pmaitra]

displacement of 5TDF engine is 13.3l. 6TDF is based on 5TDF, which is the engine of the T-64.
all of these engines are opposing piston design, which has 2 crankshafts, and where the pistons face eachother
Technik.
this decreases the volume of the engine, but also increase complexity.

I was trying to figure out the displacements of two engines, 6-TD2 and 6-TD5. I am not sure how 5TDF and 6TDF are relevant here, unless the same engine has two different names. The reason why I am asking this is the engine with higher horse-power consumes less fuel.

Yes, you are correct, that opposed piston engines have two crankshafts and are more complex. The biggest advantage is that there is higher thermal efficiency, since there is less possibility of loss of heat, as opposed to boxer, inline, or v-shaped engines.

 

[Sridhar]

To achieve this, the CVRDE has roped in Cummins India and Elbit Systems, with the former being responsible for improving mobility and fuel consumption, and the latter for redesigning and modifying the MBT's digital vectronics suite, gun-control system, survivability systems and air-conditioning hardware.

Work on developing the Arjun Mk2 began in the second half of 2007 soon after joint R & D contracts were inked between the CVRDE, Cummins India and Elbit Systems. On October 31 that year, the CVRDE floated domestic and global expressions of interest for the co-development of a 1,500hp compact high specific power output diesel engine incorporating a state-of-the-art direct fuel injection system, digital electronic controls, turbo-charging, charge air cooling, safety controls and a pressurised multi-stage air-cleaning system; and for a hydro-kinetic automatic transmission with four forward and two reverse gears. US-based Cummins, offering a customised QSK-38 liquid-cooled, direct-injection engine coupled to SESM of France's ESM-500 automatic transmission. In late 2009, a combination of the QSK-38/ESM-500 powerpack was selected as the winner, following which Cummins India began customising this powerpack design. The ESM-500, with five forward and two reverse gears, contains a planetary gearbox with shifting, steering and braking systems. It is also equipped with a hydrodynamic steering system, which allows different turning radii depending on engine speed and selected gear. The braking system contains of two stages. As a parking brake and for a speed of up to 35kph air-cooled disk brakes are used. At higher speeds a retarder is used. In addition, the transmission is equipped with a power takeoff for the cooling fans of the powerpack. Also, a hydrokinetic retarder can slow the MBT down at a decelleration rate of 7 metres/square second (0.7g), which can be very useful at the last moment before it could be hit.

TRISHUL: Orders Placed For Arjun Mk1A MBT’s Vectronics Suite


Lastly, it was Cummins India that helped the CVRDE redesign the Arjun Mk2's hull-section housing the new powerpack and is actively participating in te on-going powerpack validation/certification programme.
April 22, 2011 at 6:19 AM
TRISHUL: Arjun Mk2 MBT Emerges

 

[pmaitra]

I think it is about time the government declared a competition for a homegrown tank engine competition, and I am sure Tata, Mahindra, Ashok-Leyland might come up with some really nice models.

 

[Dejawolf]

I was trying to figure out the displacements of two engines, 6-TD2 and 6-TD5. I am not sure how 5TDF and 6TDF are relevant here, unless the same engine has two different names. The reason why I am asking this is the engine with higher horse-power consumes less fuel.

Yes, you are correct, that opposed piston engines have two crankshafts and are more complex. The biggest advantage is that there is higher thermal efficiency, since there is less possibility of loss of heat, as opposed to boxer, inline, or v-shaped engines.

6TDF seems to be the 6TD-1 engine of the T-80UD. 6TD-2 is the upgraded 6TD-1.

5TDF:

6TD-1 engine

hmm, 5TDF is a 5-cylinder engine, 6TDF is 6 cylinder.

edit again: found displacement for 6TD engines here:
http://histomobile.com/dvd2.php?lien2=usa/tech/121-2.htm

16.3 liters

 

[pmaitra]

6TD-2

Property	Value
Engine power output (h.p.)	1200
Number of cylinders	6
Engine cylinder volume (l)	16.3
Maximum torque (Nm)	282
Rated speed (r.p.m.)	2800
Length (mm)	1602
Width (mm)	955
Height (mm)	581
Fuel consuption (g/h.p.h)	160
Operating temperature, max (degree, C)	55

Source: Army Guide - 6TD-2, Diesel engine

Overall, the 6TD family of engines have 6 cylinders, and are horizontally opposed systems, and have 1,000-1,500 hp. Information on the 1,800 hp 6TD-5 could not be found even in the company website.

Link: http://www.malyshevplant.com/content/6TD

 

[SilentKiller]

@pmaitra,

Not necessarily this may be the same for Arjun Squadrons, But this is the best on Web..

( **** Information extracted from Published article from public Internet **** )

Sir Do we have Arjun ARV?
and for 14 tanks, 1 ARV enough?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun units use T-72 based ARV for repairs, Arjun based ARV are under construction or trails..

I cannot comment on that..

Sir Do we have Arjun ARV?

and for 14 tanks, 1 ARV enough?