ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Pulkit]

16 per year will be started from 2019, 25 per year will be from 2021 ..

I suggest people need to keep their trolling habits else where ..

@Kunal Biswas I know U know more than what i can ever know but sir I have a humble request to not call it a troll as i am not trolling...

I was not active for some time but I still know a little....
Given the single production line/Assembly line the numbers suggested here are not valid.
Few factors :
1) Few Changes are still in taking place and are not finalised.
2)IOC standard 20 in manufacturing given the current rate will be completed by 2018-19.
3)FOC standard will have changes which will again lead to some drop in production rate . FOC is expected next year and it has been already few years we have been waiting for it.
4)There will be dependencies on foreign supplier which ussually are teh main cause of delays.
5)IF FOC is acheived next year it will take another 4 years to get them delivered that will by 2022-23.
6)2021 the timeline set by HAL for advnaced Tejas so FOC fits the timeline.
7)Given the changes being handled and made by HAL It will not be possible for them to have a streamlined manufacturing and as per my information the current production line if ideally used has a ability to roll out 16 per year.

Sir i have worked on Aircrafts and very well do understand how the timelines are set and what is reality.

I had counted all these factors when i quoted any of the numbers i suggested .


Going by the timeline of deliveries suggested by you
2016 4
2017 8
2018 8
2019 16
2020 16
2021 25
2022 25
2023 25
By 2023 total 127 manufactured.

i will be really happy if they achieve this but this is just on paper and not ground reality.


Note: I am not expecting any second production line yet.



As last I will again request humbly that whatever I say are my views with some basic knowledge and not TROLLS.

 

[Pulkit]

One more thing. We need to be realistic with numbers. Our dream of 42 squadrons might remain a pipe dream.
Given
New aircrafta are very very costly. We can't afford 5th gen plane more than 100.
And 4.5 gen Rafael and tejas are way more costly than MIGs, JAG's.

Lca is much more capable than MIGs 21 or 27. It also outsmarts Jaguar and mirage.
With such qualitative advantage numbers are bound to go down as well as costs increased

Also they are multirole fighters.

So as all over the world replacing number to number is not a prudent strategy.

That being said we need to somehow maintain 34 squadrons in the midterms.

There is a possibility of achieving it but IAF have to trust Tejas .Second HAL have to live upto there words and Deliver what promised on Time and high in quality.

The current orders will leave us with 34-36 Squadrons only and will not add up to the lost aircraft's and achieving 42 squadrons (some call it 45).


Year 2026
Few Figures(correct if incorrectly quoted):
Number of Aircrafts to be retired/replaced :200+ (140 Mig 21 +60 Mig 27)
Number of Aircrafts planned currently:120+36+24=180 (tejas + Rafale+Su)

I really wish if IAF goes for another production line and orders 100 more Tejas LCA(HAL).
Then we have FGFA also in hand I am not sure but if everything finalises by 2021 and it goes into production we will have 30-40 by 2026(ten years from now.)

this make additonal 140 added to the current lot and given any unaccounted losses we will have 7-8 squadrons taking us to 40-41 .
A dream .... I hope it comes true......

 

[Chinmoy]

Expanded inlet only increase amount of air into the engine.General that would increase thrust at subsonic speed and static thrust. But to increase top speed , you will need abilities to create multiple shock to slow air down before it reach the turbine. And a fixed inlet will normally stopped you at around Mach 2.
Metal content reduced for composite generally doesnt help with speed. At best , it makes aircraft lighter , but by very insignificant amount

Moreover with F414 there is no plan to change the geometry of inlet. It would be the same inlet design and dimension.

 

[Filtercoffee]

Hey, you are talking about AMCA right? It will be the fastest beast among all 5th gen fighters with speed exceeding mach 2.5; but common man LCA can't reach mach 2.5. Its frame can not sustain that speed. See, speed of F-35 is just mach 1.8 despite of a single +190kN!! To get more speed, you have to make front radome section longer (like AMCA), make the height less so that less drag will happen. It's all physical tinkering. Then there is modification of air intake inlate and optimum engine thrust. Less drag (no weapons, no fuel pod outside) will result more speed. That's why stealth is the way forward.

No sir, I was under the impression that in the future there will a version with super cruise and higher Mach rating. I sincerely hope this happens since AMCA will be in series production, I hope after 30years a last topping of mods might get the aircraft to these standards.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Personally, i think high supersonic speed for aircraft is quite overrated. They cant sustain those speed for long and they have tremendous amount of IR signature when doing so

 

[HariPrasad-1]

There is a possibility of achieving it but IAF have to trust Tejas .Second HAL have to live upto there words and Deliver what promised on Time and high in quality.

The current orders will leave us with 34-36 Squadrons only and will not add up to the lost aircraft's and achieving 42 squadrons (some call it 45).


Year 2026
Few Figures(correct if incorrectly quoted):
Number of Aircrafts to be retired/replaced :200+ (140 Mig 21 +60 Mig 27)
Number of Aircrafts planned currently:120+36+24=180 (tejas + Rafale+Su)

I really wish if IAF goes for another production line and orders 100 more Tejas LCA(HAL).
Then we have FGFA also in hand I am not sure but if everything finalises by 2021 and it goes into production we will have 30-40 by 2026(ten years from now.)

this make additonal 140 added to the current lot and given any unaccounted losses we will have 7-8 squadrons taking us to 40-41 .
A dream .... I hope it comes true......

What about the making up of already depleted fleet ?

 

[Pulkit]

What about the making up of already depleted fleet ?

Hari ....
The numbers are just estimate or guess from various sources available online...

Some claim we are down to 32 squad some say 34 lets assume 34 to calculate.
Currently -->34 Squad.
Retired Replaced by 2026-->200+
Manufactured/acquired by 2026(My view no troll)-->180 aircrafts

so in short the current orders will make up for the aircrafts to be retired or replaced during next decade.

My wish-->
Another Manufacturing line for Tejas --> 100 (additional to the current order)
FGFA (if gets the Nod)-->30-40 can be manufactured by 2026

Total will be -->140


So given the current orders and my wish list-->320 aircrafts
which will be additional 7-8 squad.

current 34 + additonal 7 squad will be 41 close to what we need for the two front war.

 

[Filtercoffee]

Don't worry I know we have a lot in store for the future. We will make it up.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I smelled trolling behavior, Not necessarily i was referring you ..

@Kunal Biswas I know U know more than what i can ever know but sir I have a humble request to not call it a troll as i am not trolling...As last I will again request humbly that whatever I say are my views with some basic knowledge and not TROLLS.

 

[Pulkit]

I smelled trolling behavior, Not necessarily i was referring you ..

Okay Sir its just that I myself do not like trolling.... I just hope it was not me whom u were referring to as I can observe you do not agree with the numbers projected/figured out/calculated by me......

 

[Pulkit]

Don't worry I know we have a lot in store for the future. We will make it up.

Please share the details about what you are aware off?

 

[Filtercoffee]

Please share the details about what you are aware off?

As you know the IAF is going all out to procure aircraft to it specified Sqn. Strength. By the look of things all this will be done by 2027-2030. That's all I know pulkit.

 

[Filtercoffee]

To add to this there are reserves of fighters retired as well, this would be last choice barring black projects already in service.

 

[Pulkit]

As you know the IAF is going all out to procure aircraft to it specified Sqn. Strength. By the look of things all this will be done by 2027-2030. That's all I know pulkit.

To add to this there are reserves of fighters retired as well, this would be last choice barring black projects already in service.

@Ramdasrathsuryavanshi I donot agree to any of the above statements and believe that you need to Please go through the thread to get info on the subject last 5-6 pages will be enough for you to get the detailed idea of the procurement and replacement process taking place here....
Will discuss once you have enough info....

 

[Filtercoffee]

@Ramdasrathsuryavanshi I donot agree to any of the above statements and believe that you need to Please go through the thread to get info on the subject last 5-6 pages will be enough for you to get the detailed idea of the procurement and replacement process taking place here....
Will discuss once you have enough info....

Are you suggesting the process is under threat by what you know compared to progress of HAL? Also information put out could be a barrier to ground reality. I know you are an aerospace engineer but they plan it perfectly and execution of sequences is absolutely on time, barring some elements which are moved and unmoved based on whim(?). I do read the thread.

 

[dude00720]

Can we try and respect the people who post information? This need to tell people to read and post and etc. is not healthy. If someone wants to make a point . Write a blog and post it. No need to tell people what to do. We are not Pakistan. We are fully functioning democracy. And respecting Others is very important.

 

[dude00720]

@Pulkit - Can you summarise in 2 lines?
a) How many aircraft do you think we need by 2022?
b) and how many is expected to be available?

 

[Pulkit]

Are you suggesting the process is under threat by what you know compared to progress of HAL? Also information put out could be a barrier to ground reality. I know you are an aerospace engineer but they plan it perfectly and execution of sequences is absolutely on time, barring some elements which are moved and unmoved based on whim(?). I do read the thread.

If you have not realized the same nothing can be said further.
HAL has not met any of the deadlines all projects are getting delayed for one reason or another recently a list came out along with the reasons(unacceptable) for the delays in the project.
If everything had gone as per plan and as per the capability we would have not been facing the issue of the depleted strength in the Airforce Navy and Army.
Sticking particularly to IAF
None of the procurement processes reached maturity .(MMRCA)
Tejas is being delayed even when it can be introduced in the current form.
The life of an aircraft is predetermined and can only be improved by some upgrades or by proper maintenance.
Some people claim we are down to 32 squad some say 34 No definite figures involved.
Then there is also a issue with the number of aircraft in the squad available which ranges from 16 to 18.

That is the availability issue.

These information usually come through reliable sources and often discussed in the Parliament .

 

[Pulkit]

Can we try and respect the people who post information? This need to tell people to read and post and etc. is not healthy. If someone wants to make a point . Write a blog and post it. No need to tell people what to do. We are not Pakistan. We are fully functioning democracy. And respecting Others is very important.

Please re read what i wrote.
He did not share any information but made a comment .
With all due respect I asked him to get familiar with the content we were discussing.

I am no expert but even i have the right to request a fellow person for gather some more information for healthy discussion.


This is Offtopic.........

 

[Pulkit]

@Pulkit - Can you summarise in 2 lines?
a) How many aircraft do you think we need by 2022?
b) and how many is expected to be available?

I hope you have read one of my post above

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-news-and-discussions.1/page-640#post-1237714

I hope u have.

Summarizing in two lines will be difficult but let me try:
Please find my response inline....

@Pulkit - Can you summarise in 2 lines?
a) How many aircraft do you think we need by 2022?

As per the information available I am having figure expected in 2026 not 2022 .

Mig 21 and 27 to be retired 200+ to be retired by 2026 so believing a constant and gradual removal around 100 aircrafts might be retired by 2022.(crashes or cannibalized not accounted)

b) and how many is expected to be available?

by 2022
available :36 Rafale+20 IOC Tejas+20 FOC Tejas+Few Su= ~85 can be expected. New Ones which hardly fulfills the requirement of the removed ones.....

If you have any other info please share.