There are no friends during a conflict !

[Kunal Biswas]

Former chief of the army staff Gen Ved Prakash Malik, who led the Indian Army in the 1999 Kargil conflict, on Tuesday said the satellite pictures of Tololing area supplied to the army during the Kargil conflict by a "friendly country" were three-four years old while the moving pictures provided by another nation eventually faded as the battery of the satellite was "about to get over".

During a discussion on his latest book, India's Military Conflicts and Diplomacy: An Inside view of Decision Making, Malik said, "We had no satellite pictures of the battlefield area during the Kargil conflict. A friendly country provided us the pictures at Rs 35,000- Rs 36,000 per frame. We got the pictures of Tololing area but realised they were three-four year old. Another country agreed to provide us moving satellite pictures of the battlefield.. after few days, the pictures faded and we were told that the battery of the satellite was about to die. The three chiefs of the Armed Forces made all the noises and even met ISRO chief Kasturirangan apprsing him of the need for our own images. He promised that in three years we will have the satellite and he delivered."

During the 90-minute discussion, Malik emphasised on the need to record decision-making process to learn from mistakes while documenting military history of the nation. He criticised the policy-making process in the country and described it as "fractured and segmented".

Narrating the role of military as an extension of the political and diplomatic mandate, Malik said, "On June 3, 1999 air chief and I sought cabinet approval to go a few miles on the other side of Line of Control (LoC), but the request was put down." While that was the mandate during the conflict, he highlighted military lacks "peacetime aim".

"We are still following very antiquated system which is not allowing flawless decision-making process"¦our policies are fractured, segmented," he said.

Talking about lessons learnt from the Kargil conflict, Malik said, "There are no friends during a conflict as everybody wants to make money. We are importing 70 per cent defence equipment. How can we be a regional power? After so many years, we are yet to get our industry moving as there are mindset problems in our defence ministry"¦problem is import of technology. We require foreign collaboration. We are stuck at 26 per cent FDI. Our private sector has the money and capability."

Economist Vijay Kelkar also attended the event with Malik. Amongst others present were Air Marshal (retd) Bhushan Gokhale, S K Jain and Anant Sardeshmukh of MCCIA. The event was attended by senior retired officers of the Armed forces along with researchers and enthusiasts.

Source : 'Friendly nation' supplied outdated satellite images during Kargil conflict: ex-Army chief - Indian Express

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So does others Generals include General VK Singh ..

The message is clear and loud :

1. Reform Army thinking and decision making system ..
2. Need to move towards National products ..

There are many voices talks abt Army against National defense industry, But lack insight that it is mostly the work of MOD and few bad fishes in Army ..

 

[Deccani]

Yes , its true that there are no friends during the conflict and nation have to suffer for the whole .

After kargil war , there has been a big change in the policy in acquiring weapons from many sources which has indeed worked out good for the nation and this only has let for the private sector to invest and research in defense .

 

[kseeker]

After kargil war , there has been a big change in the policy in acquiring weapons from many sources which has indeed worked out good for the nation and this only has let for the private sector to invest and research in defense .

This only has resulted in more and more defence scams in the hands of bureaucrats and corrupt politicians !

Ref: Courage and Conviction - Gen VK Singh's biography.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Didn't get your point, Kindly elaborate ..

After kargil war , there has been a big change in the policy in acquiring weapons from many sources which has indeed worked out good for the nation and this only has let for the private sector to invest and research in defense .

 

[sayareakd]

Former chief of the army staff Gen Ved Prakash Malik, who led the Indian Army in the 1999 Kargil conflict, on Tuesday said the satellite pictures of Tololing area supplied to the army during the Kargil conflict by a "friendly country" were three-four years old while the moving pictures provided by another nation eventually faded as the battery of the satellite was "about to get over".

I thought about the battery then it hit me that Satellites are powered by solar cells......................:taunt1:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This is Deccani`s post from : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...intrude-into-indian-territory-ladakh-193.html

You will find his post very interesting ..

In real you should stop being extra cautious with my posts and stop mixing different issues . stop this judgmental attitude . Yes there is no doubt that scams are there involving many deals but there are even many reasons behind these scams which is more or less linked to defense and political relations with other countries or to make new defense relations with other countries or to make neighboring countries understand that we are still giving chance to change their ways etc . I don't think that people sitting in national security council just make foreign policy or defense purchases by not keeping all these issues in mind .

there is different way of thinking on many subject and its not possible that we all can agree on everything .

This only has resulted in more and more defence scams in the hands of bureaucrats and corrupt politicians !

Ref: Courage and Conviction - Gen VK Singh's biography.

 

[Deccani]

This only has resulted in more and more defence scams in the hands of bureaucrats and corrupt politicians !

Ref: Courage and Conviction - Gen VK Singh's biography.

And what was the result of these scams ?

Investment from Private sector in which the private sector can not only expand and research but even would be answerable to the Government , here even the bureaucrats and politicians can play but all that would be from outside .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Needless to remind people here, Private industry is no wonder weapon ..

Read and Learn well and clear abt Western defense Industry rise and there implication both positive and negative ..

My view is, Critical technology R&D must be done by GOV organization,production is better done at Private corp ..

This is a better way to deal with things ..

------------------
@sayareakd Sir, your views ..

 

[kseeker]

This is Deccani`s post from : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...intrude-into-indian-territory-ladakh-193.html

In real you should stop being extra cautious with my posts and stop mixing different issues . stop this judgmental attitude . Yes there is no doubt that scams are there involving many deals but there are even many reasons behind these scams which is more or less linked to defense and political relations with other countries or to make new defense relations with other countries or to make neighboring countries understand that we are still giving chance to change their ways etc . I don't think that people sitting in national security council just make foreign policy or defense purchases by not keeping all these issues in mind .

there is different way of thinking on many subject and its not possible that we all can agree on everything .
Deccani ↑

You will find his post very interesting ..

To be frank, I find that particular post amusing rather than interesting

That was an blunt excuse to support corruption, nothing else :sarc:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@Deccani, you are at defense forum, how you think 3 million soldiers should be equipped and fight ?

 

[kseeker]

And what was the result of these scams ?

Investment from Private sector in which the private sector can not only expand and research but even would be answerable to the Government , here even the bureaucrats and politicians can play but all that would be from outside .

What result are you talking about ?

Results, huh ? Multi billion $ scams, delay in acquisitions, procurement of sub standard defence materials :blah: :blah: :blah: Even if our armed forces get what they want after an enormous efforts, when it is delivered to them, it looses it's charm or the importance, most of the items, when something is delivered to armed forces, it would be outdated one.

 

[sayareakd]

Needless to remind people here, Private industry is no wonder weapon ..

Read and Learn well and clear abt Western defense Industry rise and there implication both positive and negative ..

My view is, Critical technology R&D must be done by GOV organization,production is better done at Private corp ..

This is a better way to deal with things ..

------------------
@sayareakd Sir, your views ..

Private sector is not magic wand for all our defence problem, R&D should be done by Govt and then it should be handed over to Private sector with strict control, if they sell it to any other party it should be regulated with proper checks and balances.

I too want to India to have huge Military Industrial Complexes, but now is not the time only few companies are capable and you can count them in hand. L&T is good and only one, TATA is M&M is only for JVs. Yet to see them develop complete system on their own. Private sector defence should be properly control by Govt, that is my view.

 

[Deccani]

Didn't get your point, Kindly elaborate ..

We started to get weapons from all the countries to modernize the military . Kargil war has really made us to change the policy and it has been good for the nation.


In 2004, the British company BAE Systems won a deal to sell advanced jet trainers to the Indian Air Force. In 2007, India paid the United States $50 million for the amphibious USS Trenton, and in 2009, Boeing won a $2 billion order for eight P-8 maritime reconnaissance aircraft and Lockheed Martin won a $1 billion contract for six C-1301J transport aircraft.Dassault Rafale to fulfill its medium multirole combat aircraft and now it seems even the Japanese would sell to India like US-2 aircraft etc.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

There are words bold in red, And a poster based on Gens speech ..

He cannot read that, But some how we are ..

What result are you talking about ?

Results, huh ? Multi billion $ scams, delay in acquisitions, procurement of sub standard defence materials :blah: :blah: :blah: Even if our armed forces get what they want after an enormous efforts, when it is delivered to them, it looses it's charm or the importance, most of the items, when something is delivered to armed forces, it would be outdated one.

 

[Deccani]

Needless to remind people here, Private industry is no wonder weapon ..

Read and Learn well and clear abt Western defense Industry rise and there implication both positive and negative ..

My view is, Critical technology R&D must be done by GOV organization,production is better done at Private corp ..

This is a better way to deal with things ..

------------------
@sayareakd Sir, your views ..

Private sector is not wonder and its like the basic starting point for indigenous projects in which private can only research but can acquire technology from other sources and this will not only free us from ours traditional suppliers but even give us option to choose that is best for Military . India should not get into this NATO Vs Russia .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

None of the things you mentioned are related to Kargil after effect of 1999 ..

Have you read the article, I will take it as a no, Even you have read it ..

We started to get weapons from all the countries to modernize the military . Kargil war has really made us to change the policy and it has been good for the nation.

In 2004, the British company BAE Systems won a deal to sell advanced jet trainers to the Indian Air Force. In 2007, India paid the United States $50 million for the amphibious USS Trenton, and in 2009, Boeing won a $2 billion order for eight P-8 maritime reconnaissance aircraft and Lockheed Martin won a $1 billion contract for six C-1301J transport aircraft.Dassault Rafale to fulfill its medium multirole combat aircraft and now it seems even the Japanese would sell to India like US-2 aircraft etc.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Should i call you Genius ..

You seem to know you Gov well, But i am afraid not your County, 3 million IA solider cannot rely on imports nor the equipment design for some other country but tailor made for ourselves, Why we need Private R&D ? Do you understand the risks involves ? have you read or research on those country which rely on Pvt corp for there arms like Amerika ? , Our Gov is not like Amerika Gov , They cannot tame there own PSU leave alone PVT corps under ..

Do give a hard thinking abt things you are talking ..

Private sector is not wonder and its like the basic starting point for indigenous projects in which private can only research but can acquire technology from other sources and this will not only free us from ours traditional suppliers but even give us option to choose that is best for Military . India should not get into this NATO Vs Russia .

 

[Deccani]

Private sector is not magic wand for all our defence problem, R&D should be done by Govt and then it should be handed over to Private sector with strict control, if they sell it to any other party it should be regulated with proper checks and balances.

I too want to India to have huge Military Industrial Complexes, but now is not the time only few companies are capable and you can count them in hand. L&T is good and only one, TATA is M&M is only for JVs. Yet to see them develop complete system on their own. Private sector defence should be properly control by Govt, that is my view.

Why the private sector was allowed on first place ? it was to expand our military industries and get technologies which are needed for military and it has worked . These private companies will be answerable to the Government and the system will be more open .

 

[kseeker]

Post #17

^^

About Risks, I read some article ( not able to find that article at present ) long back which talked about Amreekans installing backdoors in their export version of defence equipments. Amreekans are very notorious and it's already evident.

And I endorse @Kunal Biswas Sir's views on R&D part, it should stay with Gov not with pvt sector.

 

[Deccani]

None of the things you mentioned are related to Kargil after effect of 1999 ..

Have you read the article, I will take it as a no, Even you have read it ..

After Kargil war only we started to acquire weapons directly from Americans and there was a change in the approach .