ppgj
Senior Member
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- Aug 13, 2009
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it is circumstances and role of armed forces.what about the circumstances of our armed forces
circumstances -
1. tiny budgets for DRDO.
2. international technology denial regime.
3. still many drdo labs are under watch lists japan, US and germany...
4. time taken to overcome such tech in house.
5. GOI policies impinge on tech transfer etc...
role of armed forces -
1. no active participation in design and development (navy being an exception and to an extent airforce in the recent past)
2. bias against local products inspite of superiority.
3. not knowing what the specs to be.
4. changing them frequently.
5. when proven to be better, still sticking with mediocre ones as against the superior ones.
6. foreign lobbies in the armed forces at the cost of indigenous products.
you do not need to apologise. you have every right to criticise or praise. all i am asking is - let the crticism be constructive, based on sound footing. it should not be for the sake of it.NO, I have also mentioned a host of products which were developed by DRDO which are world class and also appretiated by the armed forces so i am not critisizing the DRDO for any thing if it sounded that way then i apologise
why? this is not a thread for LCA/3D RADAR etc..too. why do you quote those??I am not discussing arjun here as this is not the thread
nobody is talking forcing them on IA. the fact is Arjun is superior to T-90 and moreover it is a local product giving an option to upgrade at will in the future and giving a free hand wrt ammo/spares/freedom from foreign OEM's.they wanted a arjun 10 years back now with a changed doctraine with it there requirement will also change if the army does'nt want it they will not have it it is that simple we cannot force them on it
Arjun was ready in 2005. the army consistently refused comparative trials. why?? did they know T-90 will be defeated??
even if Arjun was late, how come T-90 with all its problems still not resolved continue to get army's patronage??
how come they want Arjun to be complete (most solved) in every respect while T-90 gets the go by?? is it because Arjun is indian??
navy has been a consistent supporter of indigenous products. they have their own design centre. they saw the advantage of going local long back. they are above all wings of the indian armed forces.The armed forces are as involved as an of the countries you mentioned perhaps even more , be it the LCA,the LCH, and don't forget the missle development when they inducted most of the missle systems when they were still in developmental stage,they have been supporting its developmentirrespective of whether they failed or succeded not to mention our shipbuilding efforts INS shivalik,IAC,INS Talwar,would never have happened if it was'nt for the support of the Navy and did you forget the NAval LCA where the navy has already confirmed orders when it is still in testing is'nt
airforce too is taking more interest in the recent past. more is needed here too. still better than IA.
army refuses simply. whether Arjun or Abhay or the light tank developed with 105 mm gun (while issuing RFP for light tanks)
30 years!!! i myself have answered you in the past. it is 17 yrs - time line is comparable to any manufacturer any where. still you keep coming back with this 30 and 40 yrs theory!! that is why i say "criticise but base it on facts".the IAF buying 40 LCA even when it is underpowered show me an AF which does that even after 30 years show me an example of one armed forces in the world which actually buys tanks 20 years laterWHAT MORE DO YOU WANT??
as for the underpowered - the original specs given by IAF demanded only F-404 engine. that is why ADA went with it not the other way round!!later IAF wanted more payload and other systems which increased the weight which is why F-404 was given additional thrust in the form of F-404 IN20. now they find that too less hence the hunt for a new engine which will power the mark 2.
is that a fault of ADA/DRDO??
besides the delays are also because of international sanctions/LM and Boeing(recent) walk out/miniscule funding...
with all that ADA/DRDO have still delivered in 17 years!! is it not an achievement?? also many technologies developed via LCA are finding spaces in the other aircrafts saving foreign exchange. is it not praiseworthy?? or do you think criticism is more appropriate??
you are completely missing the point. no body says specs should not be changed but what it entails is delay which is only natural. then to turn around and say DRDO is late smacks of double standars and bias. this is particularly true when delays on the part of foreign vendors are not spoken in the same breath.So what are you saying it is the army's fault they chose to change according to the changing times and changing technology so you are saying the the IAF should buy an a/c with an out dated spec instead of asking for upgrading it to 4th gen so they can stand toe to toe with the enemy so you are saying the armed forces is wrong when they want to field a state of the art weapon systems instead of old soviet junk they are using boss if it was'nt for the army changing there GQSR the arjun would'nt be so formidable with its state of the art pneumatic systems or its FCS or its BFMS or its engine and impressive as it is now the same goes for the LCA imagine Arjun and the LCA with the same specs first given by the armed forces and compare the present
product and you will know
also it is great that you credit the army for making Arjun what it is now. 0_0 funny they are still refusing to induct them in numbers while T-90 with heavily under powered engine, thermals issue, non existence of APU (due to space??) are ok!!!
as i said, navy has been a front runner when it comes to indigenous route. even airforce is changing for the better.WHAT DO you think they are doing now ? with the LCA are they not involved with it from the biginning what about our INS SHIVALIK or INS TALVAR OR IAC are not the navy involved what about the NAG,Shourya,NAMica,3DCAR Radar, WLR Radar, Akash SAM's,BFSR Radar,Rajendra radar, are the army not involved? Naval LCA who do think helped in conducting Initial trials for these products??
our army is still to learn. god bless them.
AMEN.