We have inadequate air defense to stop chinese airdropped divisions.

[captonjohn]

I'm here to focus on a serious weakness of Indian air defense capability along LAC. As far as chinese threat is a big threat for us and now china has capability to airlift its around 2-3 divisions and can airdrop into deep indian field to cut Indian supply. Why government is not serious on establishing air defense systems to counter any air threat from china?

What do you think?

 

[maomao]

India has already taken measures with Akash and other systems to be deployed in NE and above all Tezpur has been specifically developed to station MKIs to counter any eventuality......Air dropping of 2-3 Division cannot happen in isolation, PLA would require lods of alternative supply routes across Himalayas plus logistics will be a major issue, and its always been and this is the reason they went back in 1962 and vacated a lot of positions after 1965 war (with pakistan), as India had new confidence and they had to go back from posts up high in Uttranchal.... Above all taking down these heavy air dropping a/cs escorted by Chinese vintage PLAAF won't be that hard and PLAAF and PLA knows it well, if they want incursions they will always take the land route securing numerous supply routes. They will only use Air Drops in their territory to supply reinforcements, dropping troops on the Indian side can never be a wise decision knowing the fact about Indian military presence in NE !!

 

[sabertooth]

chinese believe in numbers, they have inferior products & systems but in huge numbers, for us to succeed in such a scenario we also have to have our strike formation & defense formation in huge numbers. plus, i go by the policy, offence is the best defense, make more number of Agni IV missiles ready, and work double hard for the ICBM

 

[captonjohn]

chinese believe in numbers, they have inferior products & systems but in huge numbers, for us to succeed in such a scenario we also have to have our strike formation & defense formation in huge numbers. plus, i go by the policy, offence is the best defense, make more number of Agni IV missiles ready, and work double hard for the ICBM

ICBM won't solve our purpose and it can easily start missile war and we don't have any active missile defense. Our indigenous missile defense program has to be mature. Enhancing our airlift capability, deploying a strong and effective air defense units, creating new air bases and increasing troops with sophisticated weapons can solve this problem.

 

[captonjohn]

India has already taken measures with Akash and other systems to be deployed in NE and above all Tezpur has been specifically developed to station MKIs to counter any eventuality......Air dropping of 2-3 Division cannot happen in isolation, PLA would require lods of alternative supply routes across Himalayas plus logistics will be a major issue, and its always been and this is the reason they went back in 1962 and vacated a lot of positions after 1965 war (with pakistan), as India had new confidence and they had to go back from posts up high in Uttranchal.... Above all taking down these heavy air dropping a/cs escorted by Chinese vintage PLAAF won't be that hard and PLAAF and PLA knows it well, if they want incursions they will always take the land route securing numerous supply routes. They will only use Air Drops in their territory to supply reinforcements, dropping troops on the Indian side can never be a wise decision knowing the fact about Indian military presence in NE !!

OK understood the situation on NE region but what about kashmir? We don't have control over POK and china has started building infrastructure which is strategical decision to take advantage in war. What if china airlift its troops in POK and plan a massive attack on Kashmir with pakistani army? However we have strong presence in Kashmir but still this is a matter of concern. Isn't it?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

OK understood the situation on NE region but what about kashmir? We don't have control over POK and china has started building infrastructure which is strategical decision to take advantage in war. What if china airlift its troops in POK and plan a massive attack on Kashmir with pakistani army? However we have strong presence in Kashmir but still this is a matter of concern. Isn't it?

This would be a world war type scenario with other countries also getting involved on our side.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

India has already taken measures with Akash and other systems to be deployed in NE and above all Tezpur has been specifically developed to station MKIs to counter any eventuality......Air dropping of 2-3 Division cannot happen in isolation, PLA would require lods of alternative supply routes across Himalayas plus logistics will be a major issue, and its always been and this is the reason they went back in 1962 and vacated a lot of positions after 1965 war (with pakistan), as India had new confidence and they had to go back from posts up high in Uttranchal.... Above all taking down these heavy air dropping a/cs escorted by Chinese vintage PLAAF won't be that hard and PLAAF and PLA knows it well, if they want incursions they will always take the land route securing numerous supply routes. They will only use Air Drops in their territory to supply reinforcements, dropping troops on the Indian side can never be a wise decision knowing the fact about Indian military presence in NE !!

IAF defenses are good only to Airfields fronts are guarded by IA..


IA dont have Akash..
IA depend mainly on SA-6 which is better in many respect than Akash..

P-15 &18 radars are primary ways of surveillance over skys..
IA deployed huge AAA 23twin & L70
IA deployed SA-6 & SA-10 in mass..

Mostly Job done by irregular scouts on ground activity..


If China decides to use Paratroopers then it will be use to cut off supply routes and frontal units from the main at back..
Some work i done on PLA paratroopers:
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?t=17029

Main thrust of PLA RRUs:
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?t=16694&page=2


PLA or PLAAF are no longer Vintage rather advance than us in many ways..

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Everyone is forgetting the AWACS Phalcon and indigenous that will be rolled out as well the AESA radar on the Sukhois which act as mini AWACS.

 

[Tshering22]

What's new about it? All the defence think tanks have been screaming their throats off for the IAF to induct Akash SAMS A-S-A-H-P since the last 2 years. इतनी मुश्किल से तो २ प्रणालियों पर "हाँ" की है । Goodness knows when our eastern command will be completely safe. I hope much before PLAAF decided to take a scenic tour of himalayas. Knowing our laggard system, I don't think IAF or rather GOI has learnt anything about Chinese philosophy: "Say something, do something else totally".

If only the tri-services had full autonomy to operate matters concerning defence.. with only final accountability to civilians similar to Turkish system... we would have been far more lethal and effective force than we are today. Our foot soldier, common airman and common sailor is the best in the world today... but commanding him(them) are a bunch of @$$h*!e$ who know jack about national defence and their only qualification to hold those posts are their "government appointment" instead of on-battle or on scenario experience.

 

[Tshering22]

Everyone is forgetting the AWACS Phalcon and indigenous that will be rolled out as well the AESA radar on the Sukhois which act as mini AWACS.

Phalcons ain't going to keep the 500+ PLAAF on their own, dude. What we need is AIR DEFENSE. IAF is already burdened enough with aerial duties, clocking around 300 hours per annum. For Air defense we need some serious mountain-based radars covering every 500 km span of distance that borders China in Arunachal, Sikkim, Uttarakhand, Ladakh and Himachal (and wherever we are supposed to be bordering them). For a cheap and effective solution, I don't see SPYDER or S-300s as solution and that leaves Akash SAMs to be inducted en masse and FAST.

If 100% eastern command is covered in the coming 4 years, the MKIs can take a breather; because honestly, thanks to the indecisive and politics-ridden procedures of our government MKIs now have to:

- Do the role of ground air defense
- Do the role of old grounded MiGs
- Do the role of point defense jets

AND

- Run from Western tip to eastern tip ensuring that neither Pakistan nor China take the walk into our airspace.

Making our prime warhorse over-work like that ain't a good thing, you know. There are other fighters/ground systems that are supposed to be filling in these roles.

 

[BunBunCake]

India has already taken measures with Akash and other systems to be deployed in NE and above all Tezpur has been specifically developed to station MKIs to counter any eventuality......Air dropping of 2-3 Division cannot happen in isolation, PLA would require lods of alternative supply routes across Himalayas plus logistics will be a major issue, and its always been and this is the reason they went back in 1962 and vacated a lot of positions after 1965 war (with pakistan), as India had new confidence and they had to go back from posts up high in Uttranchal.... Above all taking down these heavy air dropping a/cs escorted by Chinese vintage PLAAF won't be that hard and PLAAF and PLA knows it well, if they want incursions they will always take the land route securing numerous supply routes. They will only use Air Drops in their territory to supply reinforcements, dropping troops on the Indian side can never be a wise decision knowing the fact about Indian military presence in NE !!

FYI, the PAAF have SU-30's and their own J-11's to escort their "vintage" bombers...
And Akash isn't much of a boost to Indian defences.... the IAF needs more Medium ranged and Long ranged SAM's.

Akash can only be used to guard some assets. It's not going to help us guard New Delhi, Mumbai, etc..
gl

 

[SHASH2K2]

Phalcons ain't going to keep the 500+ PLAAF on their own, dude. What we need is AIR DEFENSE.

I think he referred to detecting intruding units. Phalcons can very well do the job. Thats the reason we have plans for at least 12 AWACS. But detecting the units itself is not enough. we definitely need a solid sir defence system to fill out the gaps. 200 % agree with rest of points.

 

[maomao]

FYI, the PAAF have SU-30's and their own J-11's to escort their "vintage" bombers...
And Akash isn't much of a boost to Indian defences.... the IAF needs more Medium ranged and Long ranged SAM's.

Akash can only be used to guard some assets. It's not going to help us guard New Delhi, Mumbai, etc..
gl

Yes I know.....still MKIs are enough for PLAAF vintage SU-30s and unproven inferior J-10, plus we have other systems and a/cs in place its not like eating cake....PLAAF knows it well, as KB has mentioned S-300s are gud enough, however we have installed other assets, Akash are under mass production and will be good enough for us..... drooping troops will be foolish without securing supply lines!

 

[BunBunCake]

I think he referred to detecting intruding units. Phalcons can very well do the job. Thats the reason we have plans for at least 12 AWACS. But detecting the units itself is not enough. we definitely need a solid sir defence system to fill out the gaps. 200 % agree with rest of points.

Phalcon is out of scope here... there is a limit to how long, how far Phalcons can fly. + What will you do about cruise missiles?
SAMs FTW!

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Phalcon is out of scope here... there is a limit to how long, how far Phalcons can fly. + What will you do about cruise missiles?
SAMs FTW!

cruise missiles are not ideal for mountaineous regions like POK.

 

[divya]

OK understood the situation on NE region but what about kashmir? We don't have control over POK and china has started building infrastructure which is strategical decision to take advantage in war. What if china airlift its troops in POK and plan a massive attack on Kashmir with pakistani army? However we have strong presence in Kashmir but still this is a matter of concern. Isn't it?

This would certainly invite US, West and Russians into picture out of eventuality of loosing their interests and market base in India. At the same time they would not like to losse only South Asian nation which is in their favour. As the chinese involvement in POK increases we need to check for our base in kazakhstan to be supportive in such a scenerio. we can also have bases in Afghanistan to keep PA in check to have such misadventures. Though Indian government has given up its plans for bases in Mongolia I think having a base there would have been better to prepare for such a scenerio...

We need to send message to chines to stop aiding bases in POK else the favour would be returned in Mongolia....

 

[BunBunCake]

Yes I know.....still MKIs are enough for PLAAF vintage SU-30s and unproven inferior J-10, plus we have other systems and a/cs in place its not like eating cake....PLAAF knows it well, as KB has mentioned S-300s are gud enough, however we have installed other assets, Akash are under mass production and will be good enough for us..... drooping troops will be foolish without securing supply lines!

Listen up bro,
You shouldn't underestimate the J-10's capabilities, because it's very similar to the Tejas, Gripen, Etc..
I don't understand you mentioning the MKI here, because by your logic, we don't need ANY SAM's since we have MKI's to shoot down all enemy aircraft.


Akash is a SHORT range SAM, and as KB said, we have SIX S-300's. Rest should be self explanatory

 

[divya]

can anyone tell wheather Silguri corridor is connected to China also or is there anyway they can reach there without crossing NE?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Phalcons ain't going to keep the 500+ PLAAF on their own, dude. What we need is AIR DEFENSE. IAF is already burdened enough with aerial duties, clocking around 300 hours per annum. For Air defense we need some serious mountain-based radars covering every 500 km span of distance that borders China in Arunachal, Sikkim, Uttarakhand, Ladakh and Himachal (and wherever we are supposed to be bordering them). For a cheap and effective solution, I don't see SPYDER or S-300s as solution and that leaves Akash SAMs to be inducted en masse and FAST.

If 100% eastern command is covered in the coming 4 years, the MKIs can take a breather; because honestly, thanks to the indecisive and politics-ridden procedures of our government MKIs now have to:

- Do the role of ground air defense
- Do the role of old grounded MiGs
- Do the role of point defense jets

AND

- Run from Western tip to eastern tip ensuring that neither Pakistan nor China take the walk into our airspace.

Making our prime warhorse over-work like that ain't a good thing, you know. There are other fighters/ground systems that are supposed to be filling in these roles.

how about blasting a nuke in the upper atmosphere it will destroy everthing in the sky for hundreds of miles from the shockwave.

 

[divya]

how about blasting a nuke in the upper atmosphere it will destroy everthing in the sky for hundreds of miles from the shockwave.

But that would invite nuclear war and the response from chinese would be massive... If nukes are to be used they should be for once for an all. Because the second strike would be fatal. there is nothing called tactical nuke.