Vietnam's Naval Buildup Against China

[VivaVietnamm]

Why does China need to attack Vietnam?
In 2019, Chinese made $34 billions surplus from the trading with Vietnam. The really danger to Vietnam is that she is being swallowed into Chinese economic circle and her best hope - USA withdrew from PTT.


You share 1297 kilometers land border with Chinese, what can these 6 kilos sub do over there?

China need to attack Vietnam bcs we have conflicts over SCS(east VN sea) and if they can control 80 % of SCS(east VN sea), then they will control the sea route of Taiwan-S.Korea-Japan, too .

They may not attack VN on land border but in conflict water. So, 6 kilos sub that can attack CN Hainan naval base are every useful to destroy that naval base.

 

[no smoking]

China need to attack Vietnam bcs we have conflicts over SCS(east VN sea) and if they can control 80 % of SCS(east VN sea), then they will control the sea route of Taiwan-S.Korea-Japan, too .

They may not attack VN on land border but in conflict water. So, 6 kilos sub that can attack CN Hainan naval base are every useful to destroy that naval base.

Firstly, Submarine is not used to attack navy base, that is suicide in modern warfare;
Secondly, if Vietnam starts to attack Chinese naval base, then it is no longer a conflict but war. In such a scenario, Chinese can also attack all of Vietnam military bases, it is not good to Vietnam at all: there are other countries are claiming this area, the last thing vietnam wants is she fights a bloody war with China while others are benefited.

 

[VivaVietnamm]

Firstly, Submarine is not used to attack navy base, that is suicide in modern warfare;
Secondly, if Vietnam starts to attack Chinese naval base, then it is no longer a conflict but war. In such a scenario, Chinese can also attack all of Vietnam military bases, it is not good to Vietnam at all: there are other countries are claiming this area, the last thing vietnam wants is she fights a bloody war with China while others are benefited.

VN was occupied by China for 1000 years, there were many bloody wars between VN and China already (even when Han CHinese were rules by Mongol, Manchus ).So, nothing special if she tries to attack VN again.

If we are scared of war against China, then VN would still be CN's province till now.

 

[rockdog]

VN was occupied by China for 1000 years, there were many bloody wars between VN and China already (even when Han CHinese were rules by Mongol, Manchus ).So, nothing special if she tries to attack VN again.

If we are scared of war against China, then VN would still be CN's province till now.

There will be maritime police level conflict, but will be impossible on navy level. The 6 artificial islands by PLA almost finished all the possibility for any naval war.

The land borders are peaceful now, my parents bought summer cottage in Fang Cheng Gang city, 50mk away from border, I went there every Chinese new year, before the pandemic the business between two nations on this area were quite booming. No one believes there will be war, and you can't imagine some Indian buy cottage on the border area with Pakistan for holiday use.

Some images i took this year from Fang Chen Gang toward Vietnam:

 

[VivaVietnamm]

There will be maritime police level conflict, but will be impossible on navy level. The 6 artificial islands by PLA almost finished all the possibility for any naval war.

The land borders are peaceful now, my parents bought summer cottage in Fang Cheng Gang city, 50mk away from border, I went there every Chinese new year, before the pandemic the business between two nations on this area were quite booming. No one believes there will be war, and you can't imagine some Indian buy cottage on the border area with Pakistan for holiday use.

Some images i took this year from Fang Chen Gang toward Vietnam:

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It depends on whether China asks for aid from the US to attack Vietnam like it did in 1979. CN alone is too weak and hopeless even against US's sanction, but if she got support from daddy US again, then war between VN and CN may brake out.

Deng begged for help from daddy US to attack VN in 1979.

 

[asianobserve]

In the SCS China's mode of attack is hybrid warfare using swarms of pseudo fishing vessels plus large Coast Guard vessels that aims to pressure the target either out of an area or to prevent them reaching an area. This is a tricky strategy to tackle since visually China does not seem to use overt military action but make it appear that Chinese civilians (fishermen) are doing it or at most Chinese police/border force (Coast Guard). If a country like Vietnam or the Philippines responds more aggressively then China will have the excuse to respond with overwhelming militart forces.

Here we need US, Australia, Japan, and I hopefully India, to aggressively force tgese assymetric Chinese forces from gathering by doing the patrols in areas being targetted by China via FONOPS.

As our Vietnamese friend here said, what is at stake is control of 80% trade route in Asia. I shudder at the thought of China getting it. And for those who still thinks that somehow China is more alliance worthy than the US then you better think again. By displaying emotionally-driven attitude that blocks meaningful US-India alliance then the only beneficiary is China. We all need to work together for the hungry Dragon is already awake!

 

[VivaVietnamm]

In the SCS China's mode of attack is hybrid warfare using swarms of pseudo fishing vessels plus large Coast Guard vessels that aims to pressure the target either out of an area or to prevent them reaching an area. This is a tricky strategy to tackle since visually China does not seem to use overt military action but make it appear that Chinese civilians (fishermen) are doing it or at most Chinese police/border force (Coast Guard). If a country like Vietnam or the Philippines responds more aggressively then China will have the excuse to respond with overwhelming militart forces.

Here we need US, Australia, Japan, and I hopefully India, to aggressively force tgese assymetric Chinese forces from gathering by doing the patrols in areas being targetted by China via FONOPS.

As our Vietnamese friend here said, what is at stake is control of 80% trade route in Asia. I shudder at the thought of China getting it. And for those who still thinks that somehow China is more alliance worthy than the US then you better think again. By displaying emotionally-driven attitude that blocks meaningful US-India alliance then the only beneficiary is China. We all need to work together for the hungry Dragon is already awake!

True, CN is just like Nazi or Jap in WW2, or Soviet, they can't survive against US due to their "living space" are not good enough as Hitler said. The only chance for CN to defeat or at least survive is taking control of 80% trade route in Asia, specially in SCS(east VN sea or West Philippines sea).

Its a big mistake if ppl keep thinking war will not happen in SCS(east VN sea or West Philippines sea) Except CN wanna have the same fate with Nazi or Jap in WW2, or Soviet,

 

[Covfefe]

In the SCS China's mode of attack is hybrid warfare using swarms of pseudo fishing vessels plus large Coast Guard vessels that aims to pressure the target either out of an area or to prevent them reaching an area. This is a tricky strategy to tackle since visually China does not seem to use overt military action but make it appear that Chinese civilians (fishermen) are doing it or at most Chinese police/border force (Coast Guard). If a country like Vietnam or the Philippines responds more aggressively then China will have the excuse to respond with overwhelming militart forces.

Here we need US, Australia, Japan, and I hopefully India, to aggressively force tgese assymetric Chinese forces from gathering by doing the patrols in areas being targetted by China via FONOPS.

As our Vietnamese friend here said, what is at stake is control of 80% trade route in Asia. I shudder at the thought of China getting it. And for those who still thinks that somehow China is more alliance worthy than the US then you better think again. By displaying emotionally-driven attitude that blocks meaningful US-India alliance then the only beneficiary is China. We all need to work together for the hungry Dragon is already awake!

I don't think anyone in India thinks that China is more alliance-worthy than the US, and there have been reported instances of the Indian Navy shooing away the Chinese vessels from Indian EEZs. They won't send these militia here because it takes just some expiring ammunition to take out these militia and then not report them. We just don't trust the US just the way they don't trust us.

 

[no smoking]

In the SCS China's mode of attack is hybrid warfare using swarms of pseudo fishing vessels plus large Coast Guard vessels that aims to pressure the target either out of an area or to prevent them reaching an area. This is a tricky strategy to tackle since visually China does not seem to use overt military action but make it appear that Chinese civilians (fishermen) are doing it or at most Chinese police/border force (Coast Guard). If a country like Vietnam or the Philippines responds more aggressively then China will have the excuse to respond with overwhelming militart forces.

Isn't that what Philippine police or border force did to others fishing boats?
Not defending China, but the fact is that is every country has been doing the same thing in SCS for decades.

Here we need US, Australia, Japan, and I hopefully India, to aggressively force tgese assymetric Chinese forces from gathering by doing the patrols in areas being targetted by China via FONOPS.

Sending their navy force to attack Chinese sea police vessels? I don't think so.

As our Vietnamese friend here said, what is at stake is control of 80% trade route in Asia. I shudder at the thought of China getting it. And for those who still thinks that somehow China is more alliance worthy than the US then you better think again. By displaying emotionally-driven attitude that blocks meaningful US-India alliance then the only beneficiary is China. We all need to work together for the hungry Dragon is already awake!

When you ask someone to cross thousands mile to protect your ass, there is always a question to think about: how much are you going to pay?

 

[VivaVietnamm]

When you ask someone to cross thousands mile to protect your ass, there is always a question to think about: how much are you going to pay?

As I remembered, when the Jap took control of SCS(east VN sea or West Philippines sea) in ww2, they started attacking Aussie

 

[rockdog]

It depends on whether China asks for aid from the US to attack Vietnam like it did in 1979. CN alone is too weak and hopeless even against US's sanction, but if she got support from daddy US again, then war between VN and CN may brake out.

Deng begged for help from daddy US to attack VN in 1979.

View attachment 125638

Different time different guesture, this is political, Hu Chi Minh also called China as "big brother", and asked for troops and materials fighting against French and USA, it's all reasonable.

Kicking Vietman in 1979 is not only the consensus by China, but also from nations of ASEAN and USA. The deal was USA broke up the diplomatic relation with Taiwan, against CCCP together and allow tech and investment to China.

It's all about benefit calculation, at this point I think Deng is smart ass, smarter than Mao.

 

[Angel of War]

Vietnam is on the right path of economic progress and hopefully it will have an economy large enough to balance china's clout in South East Asia. But Vietnam's miltary strength needs to be revamped. Considering the PLAN threat the Vietnamese military should focus heavily on building anti surface and anti submarine warfare assets. Vietnam should adopt the strategy of A2AD which can be effectively implemented by setting up coastal Ashm batteries. Vietnam should buy the Brahmos or Zicron

 

[rockdog]

True, CN is just like Nazi or Jap in WW2, or Soviet, they can't survive against US due to their "living space" are not good enough as Hitler said. The only chance for CN to defeat or at least survive is taking control of 80% trade route in Asia, specially in SCS(east VN sea or West Philippines sea).

Its a big mistake if ppl keep thinking war will not happen in SCS(east VN sea or West Philippines sea) Except CN wanna have the same fate with Nazi or Jap in WW2, or Soviet,

It's very lazy to simplify the current situation with history, the real world is more complicated. Even China and USA don't trust each other, but the dependency between two are still complicated.

It's not cold war time, two nations are deeply integrated into globalization, that's the benefit for big nation with big market like China. We don't need war, we just need strong army to prevent it.

But the current world is not good for mid size nation, like Vietman.
Vietnam's surviving during 50s-70s was not by its own, it's backed by USSR and China.

Without this see how sentimental Viet was, during 80s-90's, China, US had bad relationship with it, USSR collapsed, Vitenam suddenly became the poorest nation in ASEAN.

The recent booming of Vietnam was partly because your CP tried to show friendly to China and USA, you get supply chain from China, and sell assemblied products to US and EU. Can you imagine how will you survive if China cut supply chain, or US stop importing your products with you?

Actually, China is happy to see Vietnam's progress, because a rich ASEAN will be good for RCEP and Chinese economy. Two nations have conflict on CSC, but it's still managable.

If we really want Vietnam goes down, we just raise some border conflict on land, all the forgein invesment will escape, but we don't have benefit to that.

 

[VivaVietnamm]

But the current world is not good for mid size nation, like Vietman.
Vietnam's surviving during 50s-70s was not by its own, it's backed by USSR and China.

And Mao would not survive against WW2 hero like Chiang if he was not backed by USSR. Mao had Nothing, not even enough food to keep his starving army survive, let alone having enough weapons to fight.

Stop thinking Mao was super rich guy like Stalin after ww2.

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What did the Soviet Union do to help? First, it provided the means of transportation that allowed for a speedy invasion. In late September 1949, Mao issued a desperate plea for assistance to Stalin: “the railroads in this region are poor, the conditions difficult, there are few people, and there is no food,” he wrote. “We acutely need and hope that you will help us with 30-50 transport aircraft to ship food, clothing, key personnel, and some of the troops.”

What if such assistance was not forthcoming? Mao warned that he would have to delay his invasion until March-April 1950. “This would be detrimental to the solution of the Xinjiang problem.” Stalin agreed. He volunteered the requested airplanes.

Second, the Soviet Union provided other supplies that were crucial to the PLA’s invasion. After Stalin loaned the aircraft, Mao asked for aviation fuel. “We are encountering great difficulty in this matter.” Once again, Stalin pledged his support.

Food was one of the most vexing problems for the Chinese armed forces. The PLA needed huge amounts of grain and other foodstuffs to feed its 90,000 men involved in the invasion, but it hesitated to requisition too much food from the local population in Xinjiang. Commander Peng Dehuai understood that it would be a public relations disaster—one that could spark local resistance—if the new Chinese army was perceived as an occupying force in Xinjiang. So, again, Mao asked his Soviet friends for help: this time, for 10,000 tons of grain. Stalin consented.

How Stalin Elevated the Chinese Communist Party to Power in Xinjiang in 1949

Records recently added to DigitalArchive.org show that Soviet aid (along with military cunning, political skill and some luck) enabled the 1949 PLA invasion of Xinjiang.

www.wilsoncenter.org

 

[rockdog]

And Mao would not survive against WW2 hero like Chiang if he was not backed by USSR. Mao had Nothing, not even enough food to keep his starving army survive, let alone having enough weapons to fight.

Stop thinking Mao was super rich guy like Stalin after ww2.

Nobody doubt it. You have to be capable first then the support comes.

China fought with US in Korea without air support at beginning, then USSR supported the whole industry package during 1950's.

Vietnam kicked out French during 1950's, then USSR and China supported it during the whole Vietnan-USA war.


India acted very bad in 1962, so USA not that supportive during 1971 was and 1998 n-bomb crisis.

 

[VivaVietnamm]

Nobody doubt it. You have to be capable first then the support comes.

China fought with US in Korea without air support at beginning, then USSR supported the whole industry package during 1950's.

Vietnam kicked out French during 1950's, then USSR and China supported it during the whole Vietnan-USA war.


India acted very bad in 1962, so USA not that supportive during 1971 was and 1998 n-bomb crisis.

Btw, I just hope there are No war between CN and ASEAN countries (VN-Pinoy), but we all know who control 80% of SCS(east VN sea) will control the economy of East Asia and ASEAN , so who knows when CN desperately trying to attack VN again to take control of SCS(east VN sea).

 

[no smoking]

Vietnam is on the right path of economic progress and hopefully it will have an economy large enough to balance china's clout in South East Asia. But Vietnam's miltary strength needs to be revamped.

Among South East Asia, Vietnam is on a much higher rank than China in the dislike list.
If Vietnam strengthens its military power, guess from who these South East Asian will seek protection - CHINA.

Considering the PLAN threat the Vietnamese military should focus heavily on building anti surface and anti submarine warfare assets. Vietnam should adopt the strategy of A2AD which can be effectively implemented by setting up coastal Ashm batteries. Vietnam should buy the Brahmos or Zicron

When your whole country is within your neighbor's strike range, the so called "A2AD" strategy is laughable.

 

[rockdog]

Btw, I just hope there are No war between CN and ASEAN countries (VN-Pinoy), but we all know who control 80% of SCS(east VN sea) will control the economy of East Asia and ASEAN , so who knows when CN desperately trying to attack VN again to take control of SCS(east VN sea).

View attachment 126905

Under the framework of RCEP, here is no possible war in near future between China and Vietnam, despite some conflicts.

On land borders, two government already signed deal and no more dispute.

On economic side, two nations are deeply integrated, China made huge invetment in VN and supply chain are quite connected.

On political side, CPV and CPC still are brother parties, lots of CPV's policies were just a copy from CPC on economic and social reforms.

Only the SCS have disputes but still managable, won't be big issues.

Will not enter an alliance to confront China, Vietnamese PM tells Beijing

Will not enter an alliance to confront China, Vietnamese PM tells Beijing

Vietnam will not enter an alliance to confront China, Prime Minister Pham Minh Chinh has told Beijing before he met US Vice President Kamala Harris on Wednesday. On Tuesday, the Vietnam’s prime minister met Chinese envoy to Hanoi Xiong Bo and said, Vietnam has always maintained an independent...

www.wionews.com

 

[asianobserve]

Under the framework of RCEP, here is no possible war in near future between China and Vietnam, despite some conflicts.

On land borders, two government already signed deal and no more dispute.

On economic side, two nations are deeply integrated, China made huge invetment in VN and supply chain are quite connected.

On political side, CPV and CPC still are brother parties, lots of CPV's policies were just a copy from CPC on economic and social reforms.

Only the SCS have disputes but still managable, won't be big issues.

Will not enter an alliance to confront China, Vietnamese PM tells Beijing

Will not enter an alliance to confront China, Vietnamese PM tells Beijing

Vietnam will not enter an alliance to confront China, Prime Minister Pham Minh Chinh has told Beijing before he met US Vice President Kamala Harris on Wednesday. On Tuesday, the Vietnam’s prime minister met Chinese envoy to Hanoi Xiong Bo and said, Vietnam has always maintained an independent...

www.wionews.com

If Vietnam and China are brothers then China is the worst brother who bullies and steal his baby brother's candy...

 

[VivaVietnamm]

Under the framework of RCEP, here is no possible war in near future between China and Vietnam, despite some conflicts.

On land borders, two government already signed deal and no more dispute.

On economic side, two nations are deeply integrated, China made huge invetment in VN and supply chain are quite connected.

On political side, CPV and CPC still are brother parties, lots of CPV's policies were just a copy from CPC on economic and social reforms.

Only the SCS have disputes but still managable, won't be big issues.

Will not enter an alliance to confront China, Vietnamese PM tells Beijing

Will not enter an alliance to confront China, Vietnamese PM tells Beijing

Vietnam will not enter an alliance to confront China, Prime Minister Pham Minh Chinh has told Beijing before he met US Vice President Kamala Harris on Wednesday. On Tuesday, the Vietnam’s prime minister met Chinese envoy to Hanoi Xiong Bo and said, Vietnam has always maintained an independent...

www.wionews.com

Yeah, then u think CN will accept to be defeated by US and her allies and soon will collapse like Nazi, Soviet bcs CN is too weak against US when she can't control 80% SCS(east VN sea) ?

Just look at those pictures, if US block SCS(east VN sea) , then CN's economy will collapse due to merchant ships, oil tankers can not pass through


--------------
The South China Sea is a major trade route for crude oil, and in 2016, more than 30% of global maritime crude oil trade, or about 15 million barrels per day (b/d), passed through the South China Sea, according to US EIA. Additionally, more than 90% of these crude oil volumes transited the Strait of Malacca, the shortest sea route between suppliers in Africa and the Persian Gulf and markets in Asia, making it one of the world’s primary oil transit chokepoints.



Key points

• A significant amount of crude oil (about 1.4 million b/d) passes through the strait on its way to Singapore and the west coast of Peninsular Malaysia, where it is refined before transiting the South China Sea in the form of petroleum products.
• The South China Sea is a major trade route for the Middle East, which accounted for more than 70% of total South China Sea crude oil shipments in 2016.
• Saudi Arabia is the largest source of crude oil, making up almost one-fourth of crude oil volumes traversing the South China Sea. More than half of Saudi Arabia’s global crude oil shipments traveled through the South China Sea in 2016.

Before the lifting of UN sanctions on Iran’s crude oil exports in January 2016, Iran relied heavily on Asian markets for most of its exports. After the sanctions were lifted, Iran could once again export crude oil to Europe. However, the South China Sea route still accounted for 52% of Iran’s crude oil exports in 2016.

• In addition to Middle Eastern and North African volumes, some regional countries bordering the South China Sea contribute to the overall shipments of crude oil through the region. Indonesia and Malaysia together accounted for 5% of crude oil loadings that passed through the South China Sea in 2016 and 2% of crude oil receipts.

Most of the crude oil from these countries that passes through the South China Sea is exported to other countries. However, some intra-country trade also crosses the southern portion of the South China Sea as cargoes move between eastern and western ports within each country.

Over 30% of Global Crude Oil Trade Moves Through South China Sea

The South China Sea is a major trade route for crude oil, and in 2016, more than 30% of global maritime crude oil trade, or about 15 million barrels per day (b/d), passed through the South China Sea, according to US EIA. Additionally, more than 90% ...

www.vesselfinder.com