US is rogue state: Gen Padmanabhan

ajtr

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
12,038
Likes
720
US is rogue state: Gen Padmanabhan

Former army chief General Sunderrajan Padmanabhan thinks America is a rogue state in a class of its own.

And, he is not afraid to say so.

On Monday, he spoke to reporters about his forthcoming book, India [ Images ] Checkmates America 2017.

It is in three parts. The first deals with the period between 1989 and 2003 when America's pre-emption policy evolved and firmed up. Iraq was at the receiving end of this policy.

The second part covers the future, 2003 to 2017, when India is on a fast growth track with a national government enjoying political consensus and the benefits of national economic development. During this period, the general writes, India, China and Russia [ Images ] will form a strong Asian alliance.

The third part deals with a 60-hour war with the US and how it ends with the intervention of the United Nations Security Council and other peacemakers but only after India humbles the US with the help of information technology. India unleashes a massive strike on American communication networks, throwing everything from its banking to its airline industry into a tizzy. The Indian military also successfully takes on US might.

The general is critical of America's proactive policies in the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan, but concedes its virtues.

"It is the most wonderful democracy," he says pointing out how the US tolerates the views of domestic critics like Noam Chomsky. But it is also a country that is "so powerful, it considers itself above international norms and treaties. It sees itself as the centre of the universe."

General Padmanabhan does not think the present Indo-US bonhomie is based on sound fundamentals. "How long will this kind of two-pronged bonhomie (America's friendship with both India and Pakistan) work?" he asked.

"There are no permanent friends, only permanent interests," he said.

General Padmanabhan's tenure as Chief of the Army Staff was marked by the conduct of Operation Parakram involving mobilizing the army along the border with Pakistan.

During the operation, India was on the verge of going to war with Pakistan in 2002.

He denied India was daunted by Pakistan's nuclear threats. It was American pressure, in the form of a visit by US Secretary of State Colin Powell, which spiked India's war plans.

The general felt an India-Pakistan nuclear conflict is a very remote possibility. Even if it did occur, he believes the international community would prevail on the two sides to end it.
 

thakur_ritesh

Ambassador
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
4,435
Likes
1,730
Seriously, I long to see the day when the PRC, Russia and India can come together to form an alliance of sorts, what a day in history that would be. Hope to see it happen within my life time.

Well said general, its never wrong to call a spade a spade!
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,322
Likes
11,636
Country flag
Some good imagination too thrown in by the good General. A 60 hour war.
 

Daredevil

On Vacation!
Super Mod
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
11,616
Likes
5,708
Some good imagination too thrown in by the good General. A 60 hour war.
I think that is far fetched. I don't understand why people go overboard and make absurd claims that discredits the other parts of his honest opinions.
 

Solid Beast

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
405
Likes
63
Seriously, I long to see the day when the PRC, Russia and India can come together to form an alliance of sorts, what a day in history that would be. Hope to see it happen within my life time.

Well said general, its never wrong to call a spade a spade!
I think the U.S.'s global hegemony is a pg-13 rated movie compared to what the Chinese would do if given a similar opportunity.
 

ankur

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
34
Likes
0
there is now way we are going to have an alliance with china.for me the greatest threat is china and will reamin so for a long long time
 

ahmedsid

Top Gun
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
2,960
Likes
246
I think the U.S.'s global hegemony is a pg-13 rated movie compared to what the Chinese would do if given a similar opportunity.
I would want to see the US as the Sole Superpower! I would never want it replaced by the Chinese! The Americans are nothing compared to what the Chinese will do to the World!!

I Want to see India and Russia make up a grand alliance of sorts and take on the US Hegemony. The 60 Hour war scenario is kind of hard to digest, but then this is a guy who knows what he is speaking folks!
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
490
Finally, an indian who is ready to calls spade a spade. US' democracy and tolerant only for its own citizens. For other nations, it creates hell. US consistently supports dictators, military regimes, rogue nations by giving them huge financial aids, military toys, and turning a blind eye to their nuclear prolifiration. India happens to be one of the victim country of US' policy of supporting such regimes. Its about time, these things are discussed openly in our media and other foras.
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
490
I am not able to make any sense of this 60hr war thingy. But stranger things have happened in the world, no? But what could be a scenario that would trigger an Indian attack on US? Cant think of many given the pussiliaminity of indian leadership that does not react to even pakistani threat...
 

bengalraider

DFI Technocrat
Ambassador
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
3,778
Likes
2,586
Country flag
the general knows how to give good sound bytes that are sure to be picked up by the mass media and used to spike controversy that ultimately results in inflated sales for his book, i'll give him that.
 

ahmedsid

Top Gun
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
2,960
Likes
246
I am not able to make any sense of this 60hr war thingy. But stranger things have happened in the world, no? But what could be a scenario that would trigger an Indian attack on US? Cant think of many given the pussiliaminity of indian leadership that does not react to even pakistani threat...
My Dear Johnee, Fighting a 60 Hour war with USA is more predictable than a 60 Hour War with Pakistan! In Pakistan, the moment the war starts, we cannot be sure if some crackpot General will capture power and declare " We ve had enuff of India, Lets Nuke em!". Atleast with USA we know they wont Nuke us until we r close to destroying them! And we are no Russia for the Americans to think of the Nuclear Option during the first 60 Hours!

You dont need to blame our Leadership for this I feel. Its just a sham and you will be no different from the Pakistanis calling Zardari a Traitor. Ours is a democracy, and I am proud of all the people who ruled over us! All of them did us good. God Speed
 

Iamanidiot

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
5,325
Likes
1,501
sorry guys the US has an internal robust system democracy.A democracy which shows great vitality.Only Americans can screw themselves none else can do a dent on them
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
490
My Dear Johnee, Fighting a 60 Hour war with USA is more predictable than a 60 Hour War with Pakistan! In Pakistan, the moment the war starts, we cannot be sure if some crackpot General will capture power and declare " We ve had enuff of India, Lets Nuke em!". Atleast with USA we know they wont Nuke us until we r close to destroying them! And we are no Russia for the Americans to think of the Nuclear Option during the first 60 Hours!

You dont need to blame our Leadership for this I feel. Its just a sham and you will be no different from the Pakistanis calling Zardari a Traitor. Ours is a democracy, and I am proud of all the people who ruled over us! All of them did us good. God Speed
I agree that US is a more rational player than Pakistan in general but thats not my point. I am merely wondering what would make India attack US, remember India has tried to be the eternal gandhian state which is softer than soft on every other security issue from the time of independence, the only exemption was when India was ruled by Indira.
The point is not whether US would contemplate a nuke option on us in first 60hrs, but what would act as a trigger for India to act militarily against US. The reaction of US is a secondary issue, to me atleast.

Our leadership is utter sham. Sure, I understand that India is no superpower and has many pushes and pulls to contend with from all sides, but given the abject failure of our leadership time and again to protect Indian interests is surely because of their inefficiency or foolishness or both. Lets not defend the undefendable. As for Pakistanis blaming their leadership, they are right, arent they? If their leadership was better, their country could have been much better. But the mistake they make is that they choose the wrong person/institution to blame. Who constitutes the leadership of Pakistan? Not Zardari or numerous equally powerless so-called democratic predecessors of Zardari. It is the PA, their COAS to be precise, who constitues the leadership of Pakistan. The abject failure of Pakistan as nation state can definitely be blamed on the failure of the leadership(PA).

We are certainly a democracy. But we are not the best advertisement for that system. Our leaders are so many times chosen on various other considerations then simply merit. Also, most Govts in recent times are hardly voted to power by majority of the nation, instead they succeed in securing about 30-40% of votes of the small percentage of people who actually vote. Anyway, are you proud of every leader democracy has thrown up? Well, I am not. May be we deserved those leaders due to our own mistakes, but that does not mean we glorify such leaders. I dont think all of them did us good. I am ready to give a benefit of doubt to some of them and say may be they had good intentions.
 

Singh

Phat Cat
Super Mod
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
20,311
Likes
8,374
Country flag
I disagree with the Good General when he says
"does not think the present Indo-US bonhomie is based on sound fundamentals"

How does he explain India's relations with Israel, Palestine, Saudi Arabia and Iran ?
--

And then the Good General says
"The general is critical of America's proactive policies in the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan, but concedes its virtues.
"It is the most wonderful democracy," he says pointing out how the US tolerates the views of domestic critics like Noam Chomsky. But it is also a country that is "so powerful, it considers itself above international norms and treaties. It sees itself as the centre of the universe."

Undoubtedly US acts as though it is at the centre of the Universe but one must concede that its virtues far outweigh its vices.
Anywhere in the world whenever a conflict or a disaster occurs, it is invariably US that is at the forefront for providing relief. No other country can claim to have been a bigger or better harbinger of international peace and stability.

At the same time, US cannot and does not seek to please everyone and one can't fault US for promoting its own interests over other's.

---

Now that Asia is rising in economic power the power center of the world will tilt towards it. Unfortunately a single dominant Asian power in the form of China would be detrimental to the whole world. In such a scenario we should side with a democratic nation like US to counter China or converge with other link minded countries to form a judicious alliance(a true UN) which will take up America's place and be a factor of peace, justice and stability.
 

ahmedsid

Top Gun
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
2,960
Likes
246
I agree that US is a more rational player than Pakistan in general but thats not my point. I am merely wondering what would make India attack US, remember India has tried to be the eternal gandhian state which is softer than soft on every other security issue from the time of independence, the only exemption was when India was ruled by Indira.
The point is not whether US would contemplate a nuke option on us in first 60hrs, but what would act as a trigger for India to act militarily against US. The reaction of US is a secondary issue, to me atleast.

Our leadership is utter sham. Sure, I understand that India is no superpower and has many pushes and pulls to contend with from all sides, but given the abject failure of our leadership time and again to protect Indian interests is surely because of their inefficiency or foolishness or both. Lets not defend the undefendable. As for Pakistanis blaming their leadership, they are right, arent they? If their leadership was better, their country could have been much better. But the mistake they make is that they choose the wrong person/institution to blame. Who constitutes the leadership of Pakistan? Not Zardari or numerous equally powerless so-called democratic predecessors of Zardari. It is the PA, their COAS to be precise, who constitues the leadership of Pakistan. The abject failure of Pakistan as nation state can definitely be blamed on the failure of the leadership(PA).

We are certainly a democracy. But we are not the best advertisement for that system. Our leaders are so many times chosen on various other considerations then simply merit. Also, most Govts in recent times are hardly voted to power by majority of the nation, instead they succeed in securing about 30-40% of votes of the small percentage of people who actually vote. Anyway, are you proud of every leader democracy has thrown up? Well, I am not. May be we deserved those leaders due to our own mistakes, but that does not mean we glorify such leaders. I dont think all of them did us good. I am ready to give a benefit of doubt to some of them and say may be they had good intentions.
hmmm You can stick to your guns, and yours guns have ammo too, and its not exhausted ;)

There can be reasons for an Indo Us Showdown. Economic, Oil etc. Just a simulated scenario, What If USA Supports Pakistan to the hilt and ditches Indias interests and goes onto Completely Sanction Iran and starts to stop Iranian Shipments to India. India will be really forced to act out in this scenario as we are being cornered, and the US may force other GCC countries to kind of step down their commitments towards us (Maybe) and this can get us Desperate, and we will have to react wont we? Or will you see Indian Oil Ration Petrol and all? :p
 

thakur_ritesh

Ambassador
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
4,435
Likes
1,730
Our leadership is utter sham. Sure, I understand that India is no superpower and has many pushes and pulls to contend with from all sides, but given the abject failure of our leadership time and again to protect Indian interests is surely because of their inefficiency or foolishness or both. Lets not defend the undefendable.
Johnee,

You generalize things just a little too much, yes we have a system which is highly corrupt, with our leaders taking a lead for whom politics is a business only to fill their personal accounts but still amongst all these black sheep remain some who are working hard for a better future for India, so its certainly not a case where all is lost case.
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
490
Johnee,

You generalize things just a little too much, yes we have a system which is highly corrupt, with our leaders taking a lead for whom politics is a business only to fill their personal accounts but still amongst all these black sheep remain some who are working hard for a better future for India, so its certainly not a case where all is lost case.
Nope, nope, I am not saying all is lost, infact, I hope things get better and better. But right now, as in the past, the corrupt, inefficient and lethargic outnumber the other kind. Thats why all this yabberring from me. :D
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
490
There can be reasons for an Indo Us Showdown. Economic, Oil etc. Just a simulated scenario, What If USA Supports Pakistan to the hilt and ditches Indias interests and goes onto Completely Sanction Iran and starts to stop Iranian Shipments to India. India will be really forced to act out in this scenario as we are being cornered, and the US may force other GCC countries to kind of step down their commitments towards us (Maybe) and this can get us Desperate, and we will have to react wont we? Or will you see Indian Oil Ration Petrol and all? :p
Lets analyse situations say in around 2015-2020 where India could engage in a military showdown with US...
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
490
There can be reasons for an Indo Us Showdown. Economic, Oil etc. Just a simulated scenario, What If USA Supports Pakistan to the hilt and ditches Indias interests and goes onto Completely Sanction Iran and starts to stop Iranian Shipments to India. India will be really forced to act out in this scenario as we are being cornered, and the US may force other GCC countries to kind of step down their commitments towards us (Maybe) and this can get us Desperate, and we will have to react wont we? Or will you see Indian Oil Ration Petrol and all? :p
Lets analyse/simulate situations say in around 2015-2020 where India could engage in a military showdown with US...
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
490
---

Now that Asia is rising in economic power the power center of the world will tilt towards it. Unfortunately a single dominant Asian power in the form of China would be detrimental to the whole world. In such a scenario we should side with a democratic nation like US to counter China or converge with other link minded countries to form a judicious alliance(a true UN) which will take up America's place and be a factor of peace, justice and stability.
Singh,
a few nitpicks if I may, China's rise is potentially detrimental to us but how can anyone claim that its rise is deterimental to the world? Is it anymore detrimental than rise of any other country to the status of super-power? Will China be using nukes on another country the way the present superpower dropped atom bombs on Japan?

Also, why mention the democracy of US when you talk about aligning with it? Is internal democracy of US a factor for our aligning with them? Has their internal democracy stopped them from working with countries which are ruled directly or indirectly by military regimes and dictators? If not, then why mention democracy at all? Shouldnt it matter zilch to India whether US is a democracy or monarchy or mobocracy or whatever?
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top