Top guns and flop guns: Indian Air Force 'beats RAF 12-0 in training exercise'

[Punya Pratap]

hi,
well your right because you can have the best fighter out there but then you have a pliot who is not trained well enough to operate the jet to it's maximum capability. this obivously reduces the jets capability. but it too depends on the jet as well. so its a mixture of the pilot and the jet that dictates the capability of an air force.

yes the mig 21 is a formidable aircraft. in fact nato was very concerned about the aircraft during the cold war. today the f16/f15 will shoot down the mig 21 before the mig 21 can detect the adversary. tbh i like the j7 as its more reliable but the mig 21 bison has a bvr capability which the j7 does not have.

I somehow place the skills and training of a pilot above a better then the best plane available coz since the days IAF tackled the Sabre's with equal confidence flying Gnats or IAF Mig 21 tackled the F 15's of USAF during the Cope India I have come to put a premium on IAF pilots rather than the fanciest fighter jets out there!!

A great pilot can hold his own (as per the examples I gave above) flying a decent fighter against a superior fighter but a dumb pilot WILL hit the sh*t even if he were to fly the Raptor/Rafale/EFT/PAK FA. I hope I have put my point across!!

 

[blueblood]

Dear Blueblood,

I agree the West needs to evaluate their fighters and pilots against competitive airforce flying the Russian jets but your statement is partially true regarding IAF suffering by keeping silent regarding its performance in Cope India or Red Flag (barring the 2008 where a certain ill informed Colonel Fornoff shot his mouth off while IAF kept silent)

Nope, IAF suffered dearly for its silence on Cope India. When the news of USAF getting whipped by IAF hit the stands, it resulted in the expected denial from media and citizens alike. You know the usual blabbering, it was a lobbying trick, USAF was fighting with one hand tied behind its back and so on. Had IAF declared the results of Cope-India 2005, 2006, Col. Fornoff wouldn't have dared to peddle distorted information in order to save face.

So now every tom, dick and harry gets to say that Cope-India 2004 was one off which is clearly not the case.

I would like to thank you for giving the discussion a poetic twist by including a poem by one of the most rebellious, nationalist and exceptionally talented poet Ramdhari Singh Dinkar but the fact remains that his last stanza reaffirms my statement (I'm giving a lose English translation of the last stanza of the poem posted by you)

Tolerance, Forgiveness and Mercy,
The World appreciates it when,
The mirror of power,
Reflects brightly behind those emotions!

You are welcome and I think we are in agreement then. You need to be strong before you become humble. India is not strong, plain and simple.

I wonder what will happen if Lord Shiva - The Destroyer should do if he reads this poem, do you wish him to start breast beating about his powers from the heights of Mt. Kailash?? The very fact that Shiva resides in the reclusive glacial heights of Mt Kailash meditating most of the times is reflective of how power should be managed..... I dont think he bothers about scorelines otherwise Shiva would be reminding all of us how many times he has destroyed the Creation!!

With all due respect, this is not the right place for religious discussions.

I hope I have stated my intention regarding how IAF should conduct itself or Desi Journos (If they can behave...which sadly they dont looking at the crap they dish out on the News channels) Whenever our armed forces (IAF/IA/IN) conduct/go for bilateral exercises their behaviour reflects upon our country and I would rather have them behave magnanimously than a wannabe world power with a big ego like China is doing these days!

I don't have any problem with it as long as they are reporting the truth. The biggest lesson of Cope-India 2004 was that IAF is not your random third world AF and this is straight from the horse's mouth.

As long as you can walk the talk its all fine and dandy.

 

[blue marlin]

I somehow place the skills and training of a pilot above a better then the best plane available coz since the days IAF tackled the Sabre's with equal confidence flying Gnats or IAF Mig 21 tackled the F 15's of USAF during the Cope India I have come to put a premium on IAF pilots rather than the fanciest fighter jets out there!!

A great pilot can hold his own (as per the examples I gave above) flying a decent fighter against a superior fighter but a dumb pilot WILL hit the sh*t even if he were to fly the Raptor/Rafale/EFT/PAK FA. I hope I have put my point across!!

yeh i get you loud and clear a pilots capabilities is important but the jet's should be considered too. this is where i disagree with you and say both pilot and the jet are equally as important.

 

[Punya Pratap]

yeh i get you loud and clear a pilots capabilities is important but the jet's should be considered too. this is where i disagree with you and say both pilot and the jet are equally as important.

AA jet should be considered as stated by you but the first and foremost consideration for me is always the Pilot skills and training!

 

[Punya Pratap]

Nope, IAF suffered dearly for its silence on Cope India. When the news of USAF getting whipped by IAF hit the stands, it resulted in the expected denial from media and citizens alike. You know the usual blabbering, it was a lobbying trick, USAF was fighting with one hand tied behind its back and so on. Had IAF declared the results of Cope-India 2005, 2006, Col. Fornoff wouldn't have dared to peddle distorted information in order to save face.

So now every tom, dick and harry gets to say that Cope-India 2004 was one off which is clearly not the case.

You are welcome and I think we are in agreement then. You need to be strong before you become humble. India is not strong, plain and simple.

With all due respect, this is not the right place for religious discussions.

I don't have any problem with it as long as they are reporting the truth. The biggest lesson of Cope-India 2004 was that IAF is not your random third world AF and this is straight from the horse's mouth.

As long as you can walk the talk its all fine and dandy.

Let me assure you that no Western or Eastern Air Force has a condescending view of IAF or its capabilities.

Secondly everyone who knows a bit about aviation agrees that Cope India 2004 was nt a one off and neither was Col. Fornoff's statements factual (Moron was passing judgement without even such basic knowledge as which Russian jet comes with which Engine!) . In fact he proved the old adage true where its better to keep your mouth shut and let the World surmise about your capabilities than opening it too much and proving that you are an ASS!

With all due respect when you bring in poetry than religion follows by default !

Last but not the least we can agree to some of the things and agree to disagree on all the rest!

 

[blueblood]

Let me assure you that no Western or Eastern Air Force has a condescending view of IAF or its capabilities.

It wasn't the case before 2000s. Take my word for it if you can.

Secondly everyone who knows a bit about aviation agrees that Cope India 2004 was nt a one off and neither was Col. Fornoff's statements factual (Moron was passing judgement without even such basic knowledge as which Russian jet comes with which Engine!) . In fact he proved the old adage true where its better to keep your mouth shut and let the World surmise about your capabilities than opening it too much and proving that you are an ASS!

International media do not conform to this but for the rest I'd agree.

With all due respect when you bring in poetry than religion follows by default !

It was the other way around but let's leave it that.

Last but not the least we can agree to some of the things and agree to disagree on all the rest!

Agreed.