The Indian army is fast losing its morale

[Ray]

It may not be a good example, but has anyone wondered why the Islamic terrorists 'catch them young' to indoctrinate them and the same are successful as the worst terror machines and suicide bombers?

The flip side is the athletes who have excelled in the Olympics from China and in the earlier times, from the USSR and the East European Nations. These countries trained all these athletes right from their child days.

It builds up the psyche that is essential for the task.

 

[sgarg]

@Ray, you cannot compartmentalize society. What proportion of total children can be sent to Sainik School/ Military school?

You are basically saying that a child coming out of Sainik School has an advantage over a child coming out of a "normal" school. Then admission to Sainik School becomes a big political battleground and an area prone to corruption.

The physical, mental qualities needed for success in military are very much required for civil also. The weak do not get success in today's hyper-competitive world.

It is a fallacy to differentiate between school education for military and non-military. The school education MUST BE SAME.

The situation with sportspersons is different. We should not compare sportspersons with militarymen.

The issue is not killing. Soldiers are NOT KILLERS. A soldier shoots in self-defence. The defence of nation is self-defence.

There are wars when regular military becomes short of soldiers. The military needs boost in manpower. The ready citizens (who are able and have basic military skills) will fill up this manpower need. How will citizens help IF nobody knows anything about military.

USA has national guard which is the means of keeping a large reserve force. Such a system is needed for India as well.

 

[sgarg]

General Michael Rose is wrong. He comes from elitist Western society which believes in rule of few over many. The Americans and the British still think of themselves as ruling the planet. This kind of thinking suits them, not us.

India needs a holistic security management. No single force can claim to be a total solution. The structure needs to have complimentary and balancing elements where society provides for army and army provides for society.

 

[Ray]

@Ray, you cannot compartmentalize society. What proportion of total children can be sent to Sainik School/ Military school?

You are basically saying that a child coming out of Sainik School has an advantage over a child coming out of a "normal" school. Then admission to Sainik School becomes a big political battleground and an area prone to corruption.

The physical, mental qualities needed for success in military are very much required for civil also. The weak do not get success in today's hyper-competitive world.

It is a fallacy to differentiate between school education for military and non-military. The school education MUST BE SAME.

The situation with sportspersons is different. We should not compare sportspersons with militarymen.

The issue is not killing. Soldiers are NOT KILLERS. A soldier shoots in self-defence. The defence of nation is self-defence.

There are wars when regular military becomes short of soldiers. The military needs boost in manpower. The ready citizens (who are able and have basic military skills) will fill up this manpower need. How will citizens help IF nobody knows anything about military.

USA has national guard which is the means of keeping a large reserve force. Such a system is needed for India as well.

To answer your point seriatim

There is no compartmentalising society.

That many students can go to the RIMC, Sainik Schools & Military Schools (formerly known as KG Schools; exclusively for JOCs, Ors children and wards) as is the vacancy. It's the same restrictions in seats available as all Schools around the country and the world.

Nothing political and nothing corrupt is there in the allotment of such seats. It is done by an annual All India examination. I missed the RIMC by a day because of my date of birth, even though my father was in the Army and relations in the Army who had high ranks! That is how the pennies fall.

Yes, during the training at the NDA or IMA, for which I was selected on my own steam, the students of the Military schools did have a greater advantage than those from 'normal' schools. I was from a 'normal' school and the boys from the military schools like the RIMC, KG Schools were way advantaged. Sainik School entry was not there in my time.

I daresay that the physical, mental qualities needed for success in military are very much required for civil also. Now, which profession in the civil side requires physical endurance, to mention just a few, to climb mountains, run a mile with the FSMO (Field Service Marching Order Scale B) in 5 minutes, leap across a 9 foot ditch, climb over a 10 ft wall, do a 16 km run in FSMO Scale A, do a 10m dive in a swimming pool, go on a 30 kms route march and so on and so forth.

Further, which profession in the civil side requires to build up mental stamina by having one to survive on Survival Rations, be called out anytime of the day to be in Riding Rig Chindit Order or some equally cumbersome rig within a very unrealistic timeframe for doing so, for no good reasons, or get Extra Drills (which has nothing to do with drill and instead running around and doing odd callisthenic in drill order) or Restrictions ( an equally stupid thing if looked at in a rationale way) , do a Sinhgarh (running up the hill to the Sinhgarh Fort and back in a set timeframe) and such what appears idiotic things to the rationale mind, just to build up mental qualities to obey orders instinctively without question?

Indeed, the weak do not get success in today's hyper-competitive world. But then, to wit, each profession has its own parameters of mental and physical challenges. A penspusher need not have the strength of a manual labour and still be successful and a manual labour need not have the mental prowess of a penpusher to excel. A brilliant financial analyst will require a wizard brain, but then he can afford to be a physical weakling.

Therefore, you are comparing chalk to cheese.

The bottom line is that each profession has its own parameter for physical and mental endurance and prowess.

It is because you are not aware of the Military Schools educational profile that you erroneously assume that the education curriculum is different from the 'normal' school. The Military Schools are under the CBSC. Being residential schools, the extracurricular activities, to include sports, are abundant and so is the emphasis on physical prowess oriented to stand the rigours of military life. That is the only difference.

What makes you feel that situation is different for sportsmen vis-à-vis the military? Both require physical and mental stress handling of a high order. To do so, both require the programme that underlines the 'catch them young' concept. However, as I said before, the degree of the attributes are different and oriented to the needs of the profession. Sports, is also, a profession.

Soldiers are not killers. I would qualify that further and state that they are trained to kill if necessary in the defence of the Nation, but they are not psychopath. Indeed, it is all for the nation. And they are not daft in any way, and definitely not psychopaths. Self Defence? Would carrying out and attack or a raid be for self defence? Hardly! However, such acts are but a part of the necessity for the operational plan for ensuring the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the Nation. This again indicates that the profession of a soldier is not the usual that one can find in the civil street. Therefore, the comparison with the civil street jobs and requirement would be totally misplaced and fallacious.

I find this statement of yours РThere are wars when regular military becomes short of soldiers very confusing for comprehension. Wars are there when the regular army becomes short of soldiers? Really? That is a real new one! Wars I thought were fought when a Govt want to impose its will through other means Did Hitler wage war on Poland because the Wehrmacht was short of soldiers? Please forgive me, but I find your debating point a wee bit over the top. Do you seriously understand war and the raison d'̻tre for having an army?

The US has the National Guard. We have the Assam Rifles, BSF, ITBP, SFF, Sagar Prahari Bal, Sashastra Seema Bal and so on even if you discount the CRPF and others who are doing an excellent job. Let us not get enamoured by the US. They have their own requirements and we have our own. Comparisons are odious and misplaced.

 

[pkroyal]

@sgarg

Have a son / daughter who has come of age.

For a better perspective of IA get them in as officers and listen to their account.

It is rather futile to educate you on matters military

 

[TrueSpirit1]

@sgarg How have Sainik Schools/Military Schools failed ? Mine has produced ParamVeer Chakra awardee (& many more) & dozens are top generals (Corps Commanders), as well as instructors at Commando Schools. Many join the Paramilitary & Intelligence. Some Military Schools have done even better, like the prestigious RIMC. Even in civilian sector, they enjoy a competitive edge over their peers.

And, obviously, cadets (passouts from these schools) have a clear & all too visible advantage over their pure-civilian counterparts. There is no denying this.

Why should this system be deemed a failure ?

 

[Ky Loung]

Did anyone ask the troops what's the problem, ie a survey? Did anyone asks the NCO what needed to be improve? The best military in the world have the best NCO. It is the NCO that glue the military together. Always listen to the NCO because they are the ears, eyes, and mouth of any military organization.

 

[sgarg]

@Ray, you offer some compelling arguments about military schools. You also highlight a built-in unbalance in the system where children in civilian schools are at a disadvantage.

India has adopted a number of shortcuts which are creating compartmentalization and segmentation in a already very fragmented society.

The physical requirements of army can be met by regular schools too - many have proper facilities; or government can create facilities that can be shared by a group of schools.

You have not understood my point. The Army cannot be segregated from society. While the system may seem to work fine today, it will fail majestically in time of stress. Army is like a branch of tree called India. You say that this branch is strong, but how good is a branch if the rest of the tree is weak. The tree will still fall when faced with strong wind.

You give too much emphasis on physical characteristics and too little on mental characteristics. For your information, I am a teacher with several years of experience now. This is the reason I have some trouble with your differentiation. While I agree that residential schools do make a difference to development of children, the concept of special schools for military must be thought over more.

If officers come from special schools and soldiers come from "normal" schools, then attitudes will be different and clashes are bound to happen. The biggest worry in Army today is growing differences between officers and soldiers.

 

[sgarg]

@sgarg How have Sainik Schools/Military Schools failed ? Mine has produced ParamVeer Chakra awardee (& many more) & dozens are top generals (Corps Commanders), as well as instructors at Commando Schools. Many join the Paramilitary & Intelligence. Some Military Schools have done even better, like the prestigious RIMC. Even in civilian sector, they enjoy a competitive edge over their peers.

And, obviously, cadets (passouts from these schools) have a clear & all too visible advantage over their pure-civilian counterparts. There is no denying this.

Why should this system be deemed a failure ?

There are very big and serious issues in front of the nation. We must discuss these issue without prejudice to find solutions.

No single person can create a good solution in a complex country like India. Brains of many people must be picked.

Whenever problems arise, we need to get to the bottom of the problem. My experience is that shortcuts are never good solutions. Sainik school is a short cut. It may produce good and brave officers but it still is a short cut.

I have already told you the main reason - how many children can we send to Sainik schools? Any military school will automatically prefer military families, so civilians get left out. We do not want to see a hereditary officer class created - do we??

 

[Ray]

@Ray, you offer some compelling arguments about military schools. You also highlight a built-in unbalance in the system where children in civilian schools are at a disadvantage.

India has adopted a number of shortcuts which are creating compartmentalization and segmentation in a already very fragmented society.

The physical requirements of army can be met by regular schools too - many have proper facilities; or government can create facilities that can be shared by a group of schools.

You have not understood my point. The Army cannot be segregated from society. While the system may seem to work fine today, it will fail majestically in time of stress. Army is like a branch of tree called India. You say that this branch is strong, but how good is a branch if the rest of the tree is weak. The tree will still fall when faced with strong wind.

You give too much emphasis on physical characteristics and too little on mental characteristics. For your information, I am a teacher with several years of experience now. This is the reason I have some trouble with your differentiation. While I agree that residential schools do make a difference to development of children, the concept of special schools for military must be thought over more.

If officers come from special schools and soldiers come from "normal" schools, then attitudes will be different and clashes are bound to happen. The biggest worry in Army today is growing differences between officers and soldiers.

I fail to understand your point that seems to haunt you that the Army is segregated from the civil society.

While you are eloquent about India being a tree and Army is a branch, you fail to realise that no tall Branches are in the same dimensional construct. And yet they contribute to the well being of the tree. Also, you fail to realise that all branches depend on the same root of the tree for it nourishment while also deriving the benefit of the sun, wind etc. In short, all are complementary for the tree existence while the root (the foundation of Indian society, if you will) is from where the various branches find strength to grow.

All Schools do not have the facilities to hone the physical and mental characteristics requirement for the Army or the military. Neither can these Schools nor the Govt prepare all schools to have such a construct. You have a theoretical wish list, while I have practical, hands-on experience. Been there, done that! I can say that even though I was from a premier public school with physical training facilities and sports, more so with the advantage of being a boarder, as also from an Army background, the ones from the military oriented school had definitely a distinct advantage. I did not grudge them that advantage. It mere spurred me on to reduce the advantage gap.

Your contention that schools that cater for specialised characteristics without sacrificing formal and recognised education causes societal segmentation is patently disingenuous.

Let me give an example. Can you explain how Modi, born to a family of grocers in Vadnagar, Mehsana district, in Bombay State (present-day Gujarat) and a Ghanchi, completed his schooling in Vadnagar. where a teacher described him as being an average student, a pracharak, cata[pulted to being a CM and then went on the national scene to defeat resoundingly the pillar of India's secularism, the Congress Party and Rahul Gandhi, the scion of the politically influential Nehru–Gandhi family. educated at the premier public school, the Doon School and practically the one who was calling the shot?

By your contention, Modi should have stood not a whisker of a chance, since Rahul G had the advantage of not only a gifted education but also politics in his bloodline, while Modi was just a chaiwallah and with not the vast experience of Rahul Gandhi of politics at the national and international level?

Therefore, your contention is disingenuous and cponvoluted.

Having military schools does not in any way segregate them from society at large. They are a part of the society and participate vigorously in the society.

If you want to harp of segregating and compartmentalising society, may I ask why we do not have the same standard of educational facilities throughout the country? Why Modi was deprived the gifted education that Rahul Gandhi had? or, Why are their public schools, govt schools, KVs, Jawahar Navodaya Vidyalayas, gurukuls, madarsas, patshalas, segregation in the form of girls only and boys only schools and so on? It is obvious that each type of school is meeting their distinct and singular requirements and dependent on one's own choice and means.

Likewise, why have various types of educational formats – CBSC, All India Senior School Certificate Examination (AISSCE), Indian Certificate of Secondary Education and the Indian School Certificate examinations for Class X and Class XII respectively, International Baccalaureate?

Why is there the Joint Entrance Exam (JEE) that is applicable for certain streams of higher education and why can this exam not also cater for EVERY aspect of higher education to include law, the various exams for joining the Military, et al? By the way, why do teacher have to pass a different examination called BEd? They could also do the JEE. But then, the reason is simple – the requirements are different!

And why do we have so many boards of education and not just one?
1. Andhra Pradesh Board of Intermediate Education
2. Andhra Pradesh Board of Secondary Education
3. Board of Higher Secondary Education,Delhi
4. Assam Board of Secondary Education
5. Bihar School Examination Board
6. Board of Youth Education India
7. Board of Secondary Education, Madhya Pradesh
8. Board of Secondary Education, Rajasthan
9. Chhattisgarh Board of Secondary Education
10. Central Board of Secondary Education
11. [Central Board Of Education Ajmer New Delhi
12. Council for the Indian School Certificate Examinations
13. Goa Board of Secondary & Higher Secondary Education
14. Gujarat Secondary Education Board
15. Himachal Pradesh Board of School Education
16. Indian Board of School Education, Howrah
17. J&K State Board of School Education
18. Jharkhand Academic Council
19. Karnataka Board of the Pre-University Education
20. Karnataka Secondary Education Examination Board
21. Kerala Board of Public Examinations
22. Maharashtra State Board of Secondary and Higher Secondary Education
23. Manipur Board of Secondary Education
24. Manipur Council of Higher Secondary Education
25. Meghalaya Board of School Education
26. Mizoram Board of School Education
27. Northwest Accreditation Commission [NWAC]
28. Nagaland Board of School Education
29. National Institute of Open Schooling
30. National Open School
31. Orissa Board of Secondary Education
32. Orissa Council of Higher Secondary Education
33. Punjab School Education Board
34. Tamil Nadu Board of Higher Secondary Education
35. Tamil Nadu Board of Secondary Education
36. Tamilnadu Council for Open and Distance Learning
37. Tripura Board of Secondary Education
38. Uttar Pradesh Board of High School and Intermediate Education
39. Sampurnanand Sanskrit Vishwavidyalaya Varanasi Uttar Pradesh
40. Uttarakhand Board of School Education
41. West Bengal Board of Secondary Education
42. West Bengal Council of Higher Secondary Education
43. West Bengal State Council of Vocational Education and Training
44. Board of Secondary Education Kant Shahjahanpur Uttar Pradesh (http://bseup.org)

You maybe a teacher and so you dwell on theory, with possibly less exposure to the practicality of an issue. The Army being more versatile, I too have had teaching experience at three different Schools of Instruction that covered an age and maturity spectrum of people from college going age to those who have attained middle age. That apart, I also had the advantage of having hands on experience of life as in the Army to include War, LICO and so on. And also the travails of civil life and the vice like convoluted mentality and working of the civil organisations, to include the govt and its bureaucracy and its machinations of its petty minions.

There has been no clash in the early times in the Army where officers came from 'special' schools and the troops from 'normal' schools. And interestingly, the class difference in days of yore was more pronounced and so, by your yardstick, there should have been conflicts of inequality. But then there were none.

The conflicts that one hears of these days are because of the new fangled ideas that the modern society dabbles in, in the name of egalitarianism that are neither here nor there. Liberal western concepts cannot be replicated to transmogrify the Indian mindset, and that too in an organisation that has to be geared to sacrifice one's life willingly and cheerfully, if the need arise, in the defence of the Nation.

There are very big and serious issues in front of the nation. We must discuss these issue without prejudice to find solutions.

No single person can create a good solution in a complex country like India. Brains of many people must be picked.

Whenever problems arise, we need to get to the bottom of the problem. My experience is that shortcuts are never good solutions. Sainik school is a short cut. It may produce good and brave officers but it still is a short cut.

I have already told you the main reason - how many children can we send to Sainik schools? Any military school will automatically prefer military families, so civilians get left out. We do not want to see a hereditary officer class created - do we??

Sainik Schools and other military schools are not shortcuts.

It is in fact a 'long cut' to produce material suited for a profession that is unique in its own way. An organisation that (to quote from an earlier post of mine)

No other group in society is required either to kill other human beings, or expressly sacrifice themselves for the nation.' Essentially, the soldier's job is to kill or threaten to kill and accept the risk of being killed or injured.

Given that the purpose of armed forces is not self-evidently benign and that the job of soldiers is a mortally dangerous one primarily requiring the killing of other people, who would freely choose to make this their career choice? Put another way: how do the social and political elite of nation states persuade enough people to fight their wars?

Given the fact that military service expects an attitude demands psychologically unusual human response that runs counter to societal norms, it requires conditioning of the mind to respond involuntarily to these stimuli where one is required either to kill other human beings, or expressly sacrifice themselves for the nation.

Now, which other profession requires this QR to do its task.

You are a teacher as you say. But do you require either killing other human beings, or expressly sacrificing yourself for the defence of the nation? Does your job entail your standing vigil at 24.000 ft in temperature below 400 C?

So, should you require to go to a Sainik or a military school so as to avoid segregation/ compartmentalising India?

 

[Ky Loung]

In the USA as well as in many countries the military is segregated form civil society. US Military have their own laws, court systems, and jails. Military personal are not judge by civilian courts when in direct action of military orders.

Non-commission can become commission but most tend to stay Sargent/Chief (Navy) because they like being NCO. In the US military it is possible to go from private to general. It takes 25-30 years to go from 2nd lieutenant to Colonel. Most commissioned officers retire before making Major. They retire from service for many reasons but mostly for better pay in the private sector and less stress on the family.

 

[Ray]

In the USA as well as in many countries the military is segregated form civil society. US Military have their own laws, court systems, and jails. Military personal are not judge by civilian courts when in direct action of military orders.

Non-commission can become commission but most tend to stay Sargent/Chief (Navy) because they like being NCO. In the US military it is possible to go from private to general. It takes 25-30 years to go from 2nd lieutenant to Colonel. Most commissioned officers retire before making Major. They retire from service for many reasons but mostly for better pay in the private sector and less stress on the family.

In the USA as well as in many countries the military is segregated form civil society. How so? They do not come from the civil society or interact with civil society?

I think that the concept of 'Segregation' is being very restrictively used. If the US Military have their own laws, court systems, and jails and Military personal are not judge by civilian courts when in direct action of military orders it does not mean segregation. Instead it means that they are dictated by certain norms that are solely matters military and with no resemblance with matters civil.

It is universal, and is applicable to all militaries around the world.

In the United States, the federal government has sovereign immunity and may not be sued unless it has waived its immunity or consented to suit. Would that mean that the federal govt is 'segregated'. I would think not. It is merely to ensure that the personnel are protected from civil law on suing when undertaking legitimate govt decision and action.

 

[sgarg]

I think army needs a confidential survey by an external agency about the reasons for discontent. The officer corps has become too narrow minded.
@Ray, you come from army background and you have a tendency to justify everything in army and gloss over serious shortcomings.

 

[sgarg]

The issue is not about military law. The issue is about selection procedures as far as Indian army is concerned.

SSB is too subjective. While physical is rigorous, the other aspects are too subjective. The weightage for written test is low.

It is time when composition of Indian army should be compared with composition of society. There is a crying need to broadbase recruitment in army and other military services. Not by reservations but by encouragement. A large country like India must have an army that represents all sections of society, specially its officer class.

The promotions in officers should be completely based on merit, and not on years of service. The solution is to increase officer intake in NDA to perhaps 1500 - 2000 per year.

 

[Ray]

I think army needs a confidential survey by an external agency about the reasons for discontent. The officer corps has become too narrow minded.
@Ray, you come from army background and you have a tendency to justify everything in army and gloss over serious shortcomings.

If only you have showed the diligence you are showing now regarding the posts I have written on IA issues, you would realise how far from the truth you are.

Shortcomings are never condoned because Army is a place where there a no prizes for coming second. Spilt decisions can decide matters of life and death.

The Army has to have high morale, high professionalism and correct man machine mix.

How is that the Army continues to win all wars, even though the initiative is not of India at the beginning of the war? We also have to react. It is because of the Army recognising its shortcoming and rectifying them to the extent feasible given the circumstances.

Why don't you demolish what I have stated rather than going round and round with abstract comments without touching the core?

The issue is not about military law. The issue is about selection procedures as far as Indian army is concerned.

SSB is too subjective. While physical is rigorous, the other aspects are too subjective. The weightage for written test is low.

It is time when composition of Indian army should be compared with composition of society. There is a crying need to broadbase recruitment in army and other military services. Not by reservations but by encouragement. A large country like India must have an army that represents all sections of society, specially its officer class.

The promotions in officers should be completely based on merit, and not on years of service. The solution is to increase officer intake in NDA to perhaps 1500 - 2000 per year.

Either you are a reject in the selection process of the Army or you have no clue about the selection.

Written test is hardly low. It is set by the UPSC and corrected under the aegis by civilian professors.

Services Selection Board (SSB), is the Personality and Intelligence Interview spread over 5 days which scientifically analyses each candidate's potential and compatibility for commission into the Armed Forces of India.

The interview exercise is mainly a Psychological tests of the personality quiz of the candidate, to gauge his/her potential as a future Officer.

The selection system is designed over a five day process, Day 1 is the screening test, Day 2 is the Psychologist Tests, Day 3 & 4 is the group tasks and Day 5 is the Conference(Results). The personal interview will be conducted either in day 2,3 or 4 during the post lunch or evening hours.

These qualities include Effective Intelligence, sense of responsibility, initiative, judgement (under stress), ability to reason and organize, communication skills, determination, courage, self-confidence, speed in decision-making, willingness to set an example, compassion and a feeling of loyalty to the nation.

The tests are graded into various categories of both individual and group variety and each batch of candidates goes through the subtle testing pattern.

Therefore, the selection procedure includes written test (conducted by the UPSC) and the SSB that is so designed (as above) as to evaluate Effective Intelligence, sense of responsibility, initiative, judgement (under stress), ability to reason and organize, communication skills, determination, courage, self-confidence, speed in decision-making, willingness to set an example, compassion and a feeling of loyalty to the nation.

Now, tell me where it is subjective and unfair?

Also remember the selection is not based on vacancies, but just assessment.

Thereafter, there is the Merit List based on everything tested to include the Written Examination by the UPSC.

Now, which other Test be it IIT, IIM or any other which is so comprehensive and rounded?

Promotion is based on service upto a certain rank and then on selection on merit.

IAS reaches Maj Gen equivalent on mere service.

You are commenting, it appears, without any knowledge of the system and merely wanting to increase the tote of your posts.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

There are very big and serious issues in front of the nation. We must discuss these issue without prejudice to find solutions.

No single person can create a good solution in a complex country like India. Brains of many people must be picked.

Whenever problems arise, we need to get to the bottom of the problem. My experience is that shortcuts are never good solutions. Sainik school is a short cut. It may produce good and brave officers but it still is a short cut.

Generalizations....

I have already told you the main reason - how many children can we send to Sainik schools? Any military school will automatically prefer military families, so civilians get left out. We do not want to see a hereditary officer class created - do we??

No, there is no quota/preference given to children from Armed-forces families. It is open for all.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

Did anyone ask the troops what's the problem, ie a survey? Did anyone asks the NCO what needed to be improve? The best military in the world have the best NCO. It is the NCO that glue the military together. Always listen to the NCO because they are the ears, eyes, and mouth of any military organization.

It is somewhat different in Indian Armed Forces unlike the Western counterparts. Here, JCO's & young officers are the ears, eyes, mouth, hands & feet.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

I think army needs a confidential survey by an external agency about the reasons for discontent.

It is already done from time to time; though not through an external agency, as such entities are simply unequipped & unfamiliar with the rigors, ethics & code of the forces.

The officer corps has become too narrow minded.

No, it is just that the educational/academic & class/background (economic) gap between JCO's & Officers is not so stark anymore.

@Ray, you come from army background and you have a tendency to justify everything in army and gloss over serious shortcomings.

I suggest read Ray Sir some more. Or, more closely, in this very thread. He has already identified one of the root-causes.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

@sgarg I am a veteran at SSB's. There is no competitive examination in India that is more comprehensive.

And, There is negligible emphasis on Physical fitness.

All obstacles one requires to overcome during GTO round can be tackled by an average-built person with some practice/skill. This is one area where Sainik Schools score, as these obstacles are a cakewalk for them.

Instead, it is during Command Tasks & Group Tasks that true leadership traits of a candidate emerge. So, the focus is lot more on leadership skills, psychological fitness & most of all, on the ability or mental toughness to withstand the NDA regimen.

Once results from GTO, Psychological & Personal Interview round are collated before/during Conference, borderline candidates are given a chance by being asked a question or two.

But, why I am telling you this ? You have already undergone this, haven't you ?

And, there is absolutely no need for Armed Forces to have "representational arrangement" based on % of communities our population. Forces should continue striving to recruit only the very best, they can manage.

 

[Ky Loung]

In the USA as well as in many countries the military is segregated form civil society. How so? They do not come from the civil society or interact with civil society?

I think that the concept of 'Segregation' is being very restrictively used. If the US Military have their own laws, court systems, and jails and Military personal are not judge by civilian courts when in direct action of military orders it does not mean segregation. Instead it means that they are dictated by certain norms that are solely matters military and with no resemblance with matters civil.

It is universal, and is applicable to all militaries around the world.

In the United States, the federal government has sovereign immunity and may not be sued unless it has waived its immunity or consented to suit. Would that mean that the federal govt is 'segregated'. I would think not. It is merely to ensure that the personnel are protected from civil law on suing when undertaking legitimate govt decision and action.

First thing the government (federal, state, and local) are not immune to lawsuit. In fact they get sue every minute in the USA. Any citizens that have grievance can sue the government in court. Even the smallest thing can be sue in the USA. It the main reason why the USA have the largest population of lawyers.

The military however are immune against lawsuits in conflict. The people that serve in the military are immune to lawsuits in conflict. They are judge by military courts which the military runs.

Keep in mind the US military is an all volunteer force. You are not force to join the military. There is no draft. The military have the right to decide who can join and who can't. The US military have rejected countless people that want to join for many reasons.

Military personnel station in foreign countries live in barracks/base. In the USA you can live within civilian society or on base. Some prefer living on base because it cheaper. A lot of people join the military comes from military backgrounds, mostly middle class, higher education then civilians, and white. Here is the report on the issue. So yes they are segregated.

Military Recruiting Standards | Demographics of Military Personnel