Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[arya]

We should talk to ruusia if they can sell better engine better then su35s with hyper sonic missile for our su30 mki . we have to upgrade our few su30 mki with better engine & long range missle .

Only two things should buy from russia i think we should go for 80 engine for 50 fighter planes

 

[Enquirer]

Su-30MKI still cannot fly multiple sorties in a day....it needs extensive 'maintenance' after every sortie!!
On the other hand Rafale can do more than a dozen sorties in a day, if required!

Net-net on the day of the war Rafale will accomplish the work of a dozen plus Su-30MKI.

The massive upgrades being discussed should also include a way to redesign some parts such that the turn around time is minimized after a sortie.

 

[lcafanboy]

Super Su-30MKI Has Taken Shape
All the essential enhancements reqd for transforming the existing Su-30MKI into the Super Su-30MKI are now ready for installation/systems integration on either existing Su-30MKIs or even new-build Su-30MKIs (about 80 of which are required).

Under development since 2009 by the DRDO-owned Defence Avionics Research establishment (DARE) and by the Russia-based JSC V Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design, the avionics enhancements will now have to undergo flight certification trials at the Russia-based State Federal Unitary Enterprise Gromov Flight Research Institute at Zhukovsky.


DARE has sinmce 2009 been developing various elements of the mission avionics suite, which include the following:






SAMTEL-HAL Display Systems has completed developing panoramic AMLCDs for installation on the tandem-seat cockpit.

JSC V Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design has already developed an X-band ASESA-MMR variant of the NO-11M Bars PESA-MMR that currently equips the Su-30MKI.



The X-band AESA-MMR will thus enable the Super Su-30MKI cockpit crew to perform interleaved operations concurrently.

The 101KS-V IRST sensor will be the same as that on the Su-56 MRCA.

The countermeasures dispensers will for the first time be able to launch chaff cartridges supplied by UK-based Chemring. Previously, only flare cartridges could be launched.

Also to be installed will be RAFAEL's BNET-AR SDR, which functions as both a communications radio, as well as an operational tactical data-link.

And finally, the propulsion system too will be enhanced, with the AL-31FP turbofans giving way to the AL-41F-1S from NPO Saturn.


In charge of overall systems integration will be the Russia-based FSUE State Scientific Research Institute of Aviation Systems, or GosNIIAS. Altogether, two flying prototypes will be subjected to about 200 hours of flight-tests, which if begun by this year-end, should be completed by late 2020.

The Super Su-30MKI airframe will also be flight-certified for flying terrain-hugging flight profiles (about 100 metres ASL), thanks to the terrain avoidance mode of operation of the AESA-MMR. Existing Su-30MKIs are not able to fly ultra low-level flight profiles since the NO-11M PESA-MMR does not have the terrain avoidance operating mode.
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2018/08/super-su-30mki-has-taken-shape.html?m=1

 

[Kshithij]

Su-30MKI still cannot fly multiple sorties in a day....it needs extensive 'maintenance' after every sortie!!
On the other hand Rafale can do more than a dozen sorties in a day, if required!

Net-net on the day of the war Rafale will accomplish the work of a dozen plus Su-30MKI.

The massive upgrades being discussed should also include a way to redesign some parts such that the turn around time is minimized after a sortie.

The meaning of maintenance time per flight time does not mean it is after every flight. It just means that after 1000 flight hours, the overhaul time will be 12 months. This is about 1:8 hours of maintenance per flight hour.

Su30 can fly multiple sorties in a day and carry on for weeks. Su30 can fly for 6 hours at a stretch in air superiority mode with in-flight refueling. The ferry range itself is 3000km with full fuel tank of 12000 litres.

If Su30 could not fly more than 1 sortie a day, it would have been rejected then and there. Wars are not won by flying 1 sortie per plane per day.

 

[arya]

Super Su-30MKI Has Taken Shape
All the essential enhancements reqd for transforming the existing Su-30MKI into the Super Su-30MKI are now ready for installation/systems integration on either existing Su-30MKIs or even new-build Su-30MKIs (about 80 of which are required).

Under development since 2009 by the DRDO-owned Defence Avionics Research establishment (DARE) and by the Russia-based JSC V Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design, the avionics enhancements will now have to undergo flight certification trials at the Russia-based State Federal Unitary Enterprise Gromov Flight Research Institute at Zhukovsky.


DARE has sinmce 2009 been developing various elements of the mission avionics suite, which include the following:






SAMTEL-HAL Display Systems has completed developing panoramic AMLCDs for installation on the tandem-seat cockpit.

JSC V Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design has already developed an X-band ASESA-MMR variant of the NO-11M Bars PESA-MMR that currently equips the Su-30MKI.



The X-band AESA-MMR will thus enable the Super Su-30MKI cockpit crew to perform interleaved operations concurrently.

The 101KS-V IRST sensor will be the same as that on the Su-56 MRCA.

The countermeasures dispensers will for the first time be able to launch chaff cartridges supplied by UK-based Chemring. Previously, only flare cartridges could be launched.

Also to be installed will be RAFAEL's BNET-AR SDR, which functions as both a communications radio, as well as an operational tactical data-link.

And finally, the propulsion system too will be enhanced, with the AL-31FP turbofans giving way to the AL-41F-1S from NPO Saturn.


In charge of overall systems integration will be the Russia-based FSUE State Scientific Research Institute of Aviation Systems, or GosNIIAS. Altogether, two flying prototypes will be subjected to about 200 hours of flight-tests, which if begun by this year-end, should be completed by late 2020.

The Super Su-30MKI airframe will also be flight-certified for flying terrain-hugging flight profiles (about 100 metres ASL), thanks to the terrain avoidance mode of operation of the AESA-MMR. Existing Su-30MKIs are not able to fly ultra low-level flight profiles since the NO-11M PESA-MMR does not have the terrain avoidance operating mode.
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2018/08/super-su-30mki-has-taken-shape.html?m=1

what will be speed of new engine is it greater then su 35 s if yes then its ok if not then no need to go , we have to upgrade engine first.

Pls tell us what will be new engine for super sukio or just make over .

We need more powerful engine

 

[arya]

We should also see missle for su30 mki & rafale with 500-600 km rage with hyper sonic speed , new missle should be with high range with fast speed

 

[lcafanboy]

Su-30MKI still cannot fly multiple sorties in a day....it needs extensive 'maintenance' after every sortie!!
On the other hand Rafale can do more than a dozen sorties in a day, if required!

Net-net on the day of the war Rafale will accomplish the work of a dozen plus Su-30MKI.

The massive upgrades being discussed should also include a way to redesign some parts such that the turn around time is minimized after a sortie.

Su30mki can fly multiple sorties per day. This was demonstrated in recent excercise. But not as much as Tejas or Rafale. Not because it can't but due to range, store and fly time it offers due to fuel load it carries. A single su30mki sortie can last 3to4 hours, tejas sortie can last 45min to hour, Rafale sortie can last for 11/2-2 hours. So Tejas can offer 5to8 translates into 4to6 hours of flying time, Rafales 4to6 translates into 6to8 hours of flying time, but su30mki can offer at most 2 sorties only translates into 6to8 hours of flying time. If you compare weapons load then too what those fighters take in 4to8 sorties, su30mki will deliver in just 2sorties. So chill su30mki are true beast.

 

[arya]

Su30mki can fly multiple sorties per day. This was demonstrated in recent excercise. But not as much as Tejas or Rafale. Not because it can't but due to range, store and fly time it offers due to fuel load it carries. A single su30mki sortie can last 3to4 hours, tejas sortie can last 45min to hour, Rafale sortie can last for 11/2-2 hours. So Tejas can offer 5to8 translates into 4to6 hours of flying time, Rafales 4to6 translates into 6to8 hours of flying time, but su30mki can offer at most 2 sorties only translates into 6to8 hours of flying time. If you compare weapons load then too what those fighters take in 4to8 sorties, su30mki will deliver in just 2sorties. So chill su30mki are true beast.

su 30 mki is good but time is changing we have to see beyond them , but yes take hell of time to change engine while Raffles take less time .

I asked what will new engine in new super sukio how much power ?? is the new engine is more powerful then su 35 s ???

 

[Kshithij]

We should also see missle for su30 mki & rafale with 500-600 km rage with hyper sonic speed , new missle should be with high range with fast speed

This is irrelevant to topic. There is no missile in the world which can go hypersonic for 500km as of now. This is also not the correct topic under which we should discuss missiles.

what will be speed of new engine is it greater then su 35 s if yes then its ok if not then no need to go , we have to upgrade engine first.

Pls tell us what will be new engine for super sukio or just make over .

We need more powerful engine

New engine is Al41F. You can check it on Wikipedia. It is a next generation engine with 15% higher thrust for the same weight as Al31F. It is same engine as Su35. But the airframe of Su30 will be different from Su35 and hence speed will differ. Su35 is lighter due to composite airframe and hence will be faster.

But Al31F is made in India whereas Al41F may not be Indian

 

[arya]

We should talk to russia if they can sell us new engine for su30 mki but that should be more powerful then engine of Chinese su35 s .

we should also open a tender for a missile that can fit in both rafle & su30 mki with range 500- 600 km hyperonic speed we should buy these two thing for our su30 mki .

 

[arya]

This is irrelevant to topic. There is no missile in the world which can go hypersonic for 500km as of now. This is also not the correct topic under which we should discuss missiles.


New engine is Al41F. You can check it on Wikipedia. It is a next generation engine with 15% higher thrust for the same weight as Al31F. It is same engine as Su35. But the airframe of Su30 will be different from Su35 and hence speed will differ. Su35 is lighter due to composite airframe and hence will be faster.

But Al31F is made in India whereas Al41F may not be Indian

We need new engine for su30 mki & it must be higher speed then su35 s otherwise super sukio will be meaningless / worthless for us .

at least 40+ su 30 mki should have high speed engine , russia should sell few made in Russia and rest will be made in india

 

[Enquirer]

Su30mki can fly multiple sorties per day. This was demonstrated in recent excercise. But not as much as Tejas or Rafale. Not because it can't but due to range, store and fly time it offers due to fuel load it carries. A single su30mki sortie can last 3to4 hours, tejas sortie can last 45min to hour, Rafale sortie can last for 11/2-2 hours. So Tejas can offer 5to8 translates into 4to6 hours of flying time, Rafales 4to6 translates into 6to8 hours of flying time, but su30mki can offer at most 2 sorties only translates into 6to8 hours of flying time. If you compare weapons load then too what those fighters take in 4to8 sorties, su30mki will deliver in just 2sorties. So chill su30mki are true beast.

The meaning of maintenance time per flight time does not mean it is after every flight. It just means that after 1000 flight hours, the overhaul time will be 12 months. This is about 1:8 hours of maintenance per flight hour.

Su30 can fly multiple sorties in a day and carry on for weeks. Su30 can fly for 6 hours at a stretch in air superiority mode with in-flight refueling. The ferry range itself is 3000km with full fuel tank of 12000 litres.

If Su30 could not fly more than 1 sortie a day, it would have been rejected then and there. Wars are not won by flying 1 sortie per plane per day.

Theoretical assessments are useless. Real life situations are different. War is not a one-day affair that an aircraft will fly few sorties in surge mode and come out victorious. It's the sustained mode that matters. Here's a practical assessment of Russian aircraft (including Su-30) from a highly reliable source (people who actually put their lives and money before their mouths)

"three sorties per day are considered the maximum that can be sustained over short periods of time. In Soviet times, this tempo could only be sustained on the first few days before dropping to two and then to one sortie a day. "

https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_lessons_from_russias_intervention_in_syria5085

 

[Craigs]

We should also see missle for su30 mki & rafale with 500-600 km rage with hyper sonic speed , new missle should be with high range with fast speed

Why don't we simply leap to using particle beam weapons? No more super sonic, hyper sonic, ultra sonic - waste of time.

 

[Enquirer]

Why don't we simply leap to using particle beam weapons? No more super sonic, hyper sonic, ultra sonic - waste of time.

And how would you power those particle beams??
As of today, the chemical propellant + chemical explosives happen to pack most energy per kilogram.

The energy density of batteries (that might power the particle beams ) required onboard the aircraft is nowhere near (100 times lower)

 

[Kshithij]

Theoretical assessments are useless. Real life situations are different. War is not a one-day affair that an aircraft will fly few sorties in surge mode and come out victorious. It's the sustained mode that matters. Here's a practical assessment of Russian aircraft (including Su-30) from a highly reliable source (people who actually put their lives and money before their mouths)

"three sorties per day are considered the maximum that can be sustained over short periods of time. In Soviet times, this tempo could only be sustained on the first few days before dropping to two and then to one sortie a day. "

https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_lessons_from_russias_intervention_in_syria5085

This is very inconclusive. Itonly says that Russian fighters were able to sustainably fly 3 sorties a day. This only says good about them. The 3need not be maximum but just as much as Russia needed in Syria.

And how would you power those particle beams??
As of today, the chemical propellant + chemical explosives happen to pack most energy per kilogram.

The energy density of batteries (that might power the particle beams ) required onboard the aircraft is nowhere near (100 times lower)

I think he was being sarcastic as @arya was repeatedly telling of hypersonic missile

 

[Enquirer]

This is very inconclusive. Itonly says that Russian fighters were able to sustainably fly 3 sorties a day. This only says good about them. The 3need not be maximum but just as much as Russia needed in Syria.

How to do manage to misread something so simple??? I've highlighted keywords so you don't distort the meaning again...

.... three sorties per day are considered the maximum that can be sustained over short periods of time....

....this tempo could only be sustained on the first few days before dropping to two and then to one sortie a day....

It also goes further to say...
After 20 days of fighting, fewer than 60 percent of the planes in a squadron should be operational

Also, assessment has nothing to do with how much is needed but what Russia is realistically capable of..

I think he was being sarcastic as @arya was repeatedly telling of hypersonic missile

Perhaps.

 

[Kshithij]

How to do manage to misread something so simple??? I've highlighted keywords so you don't distort the meaning again...

.... three sorties per day are considered the maximum that can be sustained over short periods of time....

....this tempo could only be sustained on the first few days before dropping to two and then to one sortie a day....

It also goes further to say...
After 20 days of fighting, fewer than 60 percent of the planes in a squadron should be operational

Also, assessment has nothing to do with how much is needed but what Russia is realistically capable of..


Perhaps.

Read again. This was during SOVIET times where the number of sorties reduced over time.

Also, the maximum 3sorties were for ground attack planes or bomber planes.

For fighter-bombers or ground-attack aircraft situated close to the front, three sorties per day are considered the maximum that can be sustained over short periods of time. In Soviet times, this tempo could only be sustained on the first few days before dropping to two and then to one sortie a day. After 20 days of fighting, fewer than 60 percent of the planes in a squadron should be operational. Russia operates one squadron of Su-24 and one squadron of Su-25 (each squadron comprising 12 planes) in Syria, but still keeping up a reasonable tempo. Hence the “turn-around-time” (the time needed to check, service, refuel and rearm a plane between the sorties) could be kept short despite the high stress on the planes and two sorties a day can still be flown by most of the aircraft. This proves that Russia could improve its logistical procedures and structures.
[\Quote]

 

[Enquirer]

Read again. This was during SOVIET times where the number of sorties reduced over time.

Also, the maximum 3sorties were for ground attack planes or bomber planes.

Firstly do read carefully & entirely. Even Su-34 is categorized as fighter-bomber; the same type whose sustained sorties drops to 1/day within few days!!

Also, Su-30MKI is essentially Su-27! Su-27 was designed in the 70s!!!

(India got Su-30MKI at major discount because of Soviet break up . At least the Su-34 went through some major overhaul)

You're free to live in a fact-free world.

 

[armyofhind]

Su-30MKI is essentially Su-27

What makes you say that? Care to elaborate?

 

[binayak95]

Firstly do read carefully & entirely. Even Su-34 is categorized as fighter-bomber; the same type whose sustained sorties drops to 1/day within few days!!

Also, Su-30MKI is essentially Su-27! Su-27 was designed in the 70s!!!

(India got Su-30MKI at major discount because of Soviet break up . At least the Su-34 went through some major overhaul)

You're free to live in a fact-free world.

Doesn't make the Su-30MKI any less potent, while it is true that the Su-27 design is dated, the avionics, sensor suite, weapons package isn't.

The Su-30MKI might quite easily develop sortie rate issues with a prolonged war -- or it might not, given what one hears of IAF's extreme emphasis on spare hubs and quick turn arounds - something that was tested during Gagan Shakti and which has passed scrutiny.

Your points about Russian/Soviet aircraft are taken well, but you forget that the IAF is an air force that operates closely on British/Western lines of training.

We have had encountered the issues that you mention and have found ways to overcome them.

India got the Su-30MKI at a major discount because we have funded its development - same with the MiG-29Ks, T-90s, Talwar class frigates.