Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[Karthi]

This depends on what you mean by battlefield. The basic L175 jammers in the SU-35 is said to manage up to 4 targets simultaneously. Not sure about the details such as range or how it prioritizes targets but that is a basic overview. In February Pakistani aircraft operated in packs of 4 aircraft so a single aircraft with jammers would be able to effectively control the local battle space by either being in a defensive posture by blinding/confusing/jamming the enemy which would interfere with their offensive scheme, the end result being a fleet defender or the other option is using jamming to go on the offensive and cause destruction to the enemy. Electric warfare is a must in today’s battlefield. Some jammers don’t just overpower/blind the enemy but also intercept enemy emissions and create a digital library where the jammers can then specifically target certain threats at certain frequencies.


Some functions of jammers (this is just what we are allowed to know):

• Create false targets even in the thermal spectrum
• Distorts speed, distance and position of aircraft
• Record and store enemy frequencies in digital threat library
• Disrupt and overpower enemy electrics
• Hide aircraft from radar



Jammers are of course not needed but that means you better have a decisive edge in aircraft and training and hope the enemy doesn’t have any jamming capabilities and or you catch the enemy off guard. In the real world though it is essential to have these capabilities. I’m not expert but for India to dominate any further aerial conflict with Pakistan/China, India first has to get dedicated ECM aircraft, get better secure communication channels, scramble aircraft in a timely manner including AWACS and use long range missile to target the enemy. Why India never had SU-30s armed with K-100 missiles to challenge F-16s on the 27th is a mystery but that is another weakness and or lack of readiness.

India needs a mix of SU-30s, most being standard MKIs fitted for air-to-air roles as well as dedicated ECM platforms flying in a support role. Next India will need Rafales and AWACS. The Meteor is a game changer and the R-77 and R-27 give good offensive but to really hurt the enemy and cause panic and disrupt their capabilities is to go after AWACS, India could use the K-100 missile to do that or better yet the R-37. Smaller jammers are effective but limited in capabilities, a dedicated electric warfare platform will have to bring out the heavy hitters:


These are the dedicated electric warfare platforms the Americans and Russians use. Key word dedicated, these are not meant to get into turning fights.

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Yes a dedicated EW Aircraft is necessary for IAF. Can you please explain how a RF EW suite can Create s false thermal imager

 

[Karthi]

India isdeveloping EW suites from decades , the D29 EW suite for Mig 29 is an extremely capable one .


Mikoyan MiG-29 UPG of Indian Air Force has a fifth generation internal Electronic Warfare system D-29.

D29 jammers work on cross eye jamming principle. Cross-eye jamming is an electronic attack technique that induces an angular error in the radar by artificially creating a false target and deceiving the radar into detecting and tracking it. Presently, there is no effective anti-jamming method to counteract cross-eye jamming.

To create a robust EW offensive we need ELINT platforms in numbers , need to create a threat library , and need to develop counter techniques for jam each threats .

 

[Neptune]

Yes a dedicated EW Aircraft is necessary for IAF. Can you please explain how a RF EW suite can Create s false thermal imager

An article from Aviation International mentioned it. I don’t know how that would work, I don’t think anyone would reveal that type of information.

 

[Hydra3]

India isdeveloping EW suites from decades , the D29 EW suite for Mig 29 is an extremely capable one .


Mikoyan MiG-29 UPG of Indian Air Force has a fifth generation internal Electronic Warfare system D-29.

D29 jammers work on cross eye jamming principle. Cross-eye jamming is an electronic attack technique that induces an angular error in the radar by artificially creating a false target and deceiving the radar into detecting and tracking it. Presently, there is no effective anti-jamming method to counteract cross-eye jamming.

To create a robust EW offensive we need ELINT platforms in numbers , need to create a threat library , and need to develop counter techniques for jam each threats .

AESA radar, with AESA radar you can virtually escape from all type of aerial threats. Only a dedicated EW attack aircraft will ablebto fool a fighter with aesa radar. And against ground based aesa radar, you need to detonate a nuclear bomb in space to blind it.

 

[Karthi]

AESA radar, with AESA radar you can virtually escape from all type of aerial threats. Only a dedicated EW attack aircraft will ablebto fool a fighter with aesa radar. And against ground based aesa radar, you need to detonate a nuclear bomb in space to blind it.

You don't need to blind the AESA Radar , just need to deceive it , that's why we need ELINT systems to study the electronic signature of radars and can fool those Radars just by imitating the Radar Signal but with a different polarity Rafale SPECTRA is an example

 

[Karthi]

An article from Aviation International mentioned it. I don’t know how that would work, I don’t think anyone would reveal that type of information.

May be some kind of frequency heating but still it's very difficult . Can you share the article

 

[Hydra3]

You don't need to blind the AESA Radar , just need to deceive it , that's why we need ELINT systems to study the electronic signature of radars and can fool those Radars just by imitating the Radar Signal but with a different polarity Rafale SPECTRA is an example

No, you cannot. AESA radar used to produce multiple frequency. The only way to fool aesa is to generate a white noise comprises the all those frequency. Problem with that type of jamming is that, the jammer attached to your jamming pods cannot produce sufficient powerful white noise. You need dedicated EW aircrafts.
Spectra works on active cancellation or destructive interference. You need to fix the frequency fir that technique. Spectra works well with pesa or dopler radars not against aesa radar.
Thats why american sees s400 as atgreat, the aesa radar of s400 cannot be jammed even with present day growlers.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Are you referring to my post?

It's only logical. Electronic warfare is future. Once we have all the pods for ew warfare we will build few aircraft for ew support for the squadrons.

Su30 is most powerful jet to support them with long range. 20su 30 ew jets can support various Frontline squadrons in ew warfare.

Just think about a 4 - 6 lca flying against enemy and one su30 ew providing them full spectrum ew coverage. That's the future.

I am asking bout a source clearly saying ELM 8222 interfering with N011 BARS radar of MKI.

 

[mist_consecutive]

I am asking bout a source clearly saying ELM 8222 interfering with N011 BARS radar of MKI.

There is no clear source. All hearsay. Western lobbies pushing for Rafale and American jets strongly in IAF circles, and even more so after Balakot.

People don't realize, that ELM 8222 is chosen as standard self-protection pod for 272+ Su-30MKI for IAF, it's a mainstream jet for probably next 20 years. If it didn't work with Su-30, IAF would have switched to something else by now.

 

[vampyrbladez]

There is no clear source. All hearsay. Western lobbies pushing for Rafale and American jets strongly in IAF circles, and even more so after Balakot.

People don't realize, that ELM 8222 is chosen as standard self-protection pod for 272+ Su-30MKI for IAF, it's a mainstream jet for probably next 20 years. If it didn't work with Su-30, IAF would have switched to something else by now.

Rafale IS better than MKI and other 4th generation fighters. That has been exhaustively discussed here.

The argument that ELM 8222 has interference with radar during operation has no source. I am asking about the backing of such claims made in the previous pages.

 

[Karthi]

No, you cannot. AESA radar used to produce multiple frequency. The only way to fool aesa is to generate a white noise comprises the all those frequency. Problem with that type of jamming is that, the jammer attached to your jamming pods cannot produce sufficient powerful white noise. You need dedicated EW aircrafts.
Spectra works on active cancellation or destructive interference. You need to fix the frequency fir that technique. Spectra works well with pesa or dopler radars not against aesa radar.
Thats why american sees s400 as atgreat, the aesa radar of s400 cannot be jammed even with present day growlers.

Yes that's true, For AESA Noise jamming or barrage jamming is the Most suitable jamming methods . Mig D29 using DRFM AESA plus liquid cooling that is certainly a great EW, and its not one Aircraft There are many Aircrafts together they can jam Even ground based AESA Radar (Co Operative jamming).

Advanced digital RWR that can detect LPI signals de-interleave similar signals, and can identify emitter.

To deceive AESA Radar we can use towed decoys like Brite Cloud.

 

[wraith96]

Ye HAL wale milke hamko pagal bna rhe *** k bache

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Ye HAL wale milke hamko pagal bna rhe *** k bache


View attachment 45844

HVT is not wrong you can see in offical documents that india have received tot and have legal right to totally indigenous AL-31F.

It is very much possible that HAL have achieved phase 4 and 5 now.

 

[WARREN SS]

There is no clear source. All hearsay. Western lobbies pushing for Rafale and American jets strongly in IAF circles, and even more so after Balakot.

People don't realize, that ELM 8222 is chosen as standard self-protection pod for 272+ Su-30MKI for IAF, it's a mainstream jet for probably next 20 years. If it didn't work with Su-30, IAF would have switched to something else by now.

Also MKI's are Armed With G4 Lightning Pods
And Elta 2060P SAR PoDs

Which Needs More Source Coding With mission computer

 

[Assassin 2.0]

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[Karthi]

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Yes its a waste of time , we should go for electronic stealth measures Like active cancellation. And counter stealth technologies like QWIP IRST and QWIP based DAS systems

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[abhay rajput]

Is that source enough for you @vampyrbladez and @mist_consecutive . Again I am saying elta ones mess with the radar so bad that su30 can't use both at the same time. Also something's happen on 27 Feb with avenger 2 radar due to this . .

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Is that source enough for you @vampyrbladez and @mist_consecutive . Again I am saying elta ones mess with the radar so bad that su30 can't use both at the same time. Also something's happen on 27 Feb with avenger 2 radar due to this . .

Then why IAF bought them. I don't think we induct anything without testing.
HTV said SAP-518 is effective he didn't said that elta one's are non effective.

 

[abhay rajput]

Then why IAF bought them. I don't think we induct anything without testing.
HTV said SAP-518 is effective he didn't said that elta one's are non effective.

If they weren't then, IAF would have posted su30 pics with elta jamming pod rather than Russian ones. Nonetheless my comment was not directed at you .